How long to persevere with CBT?

[EauRouge]

I've had 5 or 6 sessions now and I found maybe one or two sessions helpful, but now I just seem to be going in circles.

I keep scoring very low on the depression and anxiety test thingies that you do every week, and I don't feel depressed or anxious most of the time.

I can't do the mood diary thing because it all seems to be about specific situations and you have to rate how anxious you feel and that just doesn't happen very often for me, maybe once a fortnight or once a month. My therapist says we can't get any further if I don't do the mood diary but I don't know what to write.

I think she got quite pissed off with me at the last session. She spent the entire hour trying to help me understand why I was bullied at college but I still don't understand it. She contradicted herself a few times and now I'm just more confused than ever.

How long does it take before it starts working? I don't even know if I have anxiety or depression or whether I'm just too muddled to even know where to start with CBT, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Thanks

[atos35]

I had CBT last year for anxiety and it was really helpful, I had a great rapport with my therapist and saw a huge improvement in my mood and anxiety levels after 6 sessions. I did do the homework though which sometimes felt a little unnecessary but I see now how important it was to do it to get full benefit. CBT is best for quite specific problems, maybe it's just not the right therapy for you? Do you feel you could speak to your therapist and see if she thinks you are benefiting or whether she recommends a different approach?

[Deluge]

I had six sessions of CBT earlier this year and although they were useful in helping me notice some of my negative thinking patterns, they didn't work as 'therapy' for me or touch my depression.

I felt quite guilty about it at the time, but have since spoken to a psychologist who said that CBT is good for low level anxiety/depression, but may not be as powerful for more serious issues (such as I had). If you are struggling with it, maybe its not for you? I don't know. Only you really know, I guess...

Also, how do you get on with the therapist? This is so important, no matter what type of therapy you're having. If you don't gel with her/him, maybe that is the problem?

[EauRouge]

Thanks. I think she's really nice but it just seems to be a sort of NHS box-ticking thing that she's going through. I think she finds me a bit frustrating as well- maybe she's not experienced enough or something. She seems quite fixated on social anxiety which I don't think I have. I love socialising, but it wears me out so I don't want to do it all the time.

I've tried talking therapy a few times and that just makes me go around in circles too. Also you only get a few sessions on the NHS and I can't really afford to go private.

I've also tried a few different ADs and none of them have worked.

What are my other options if CBT isn't working? I find it really hard to describe what's wrong. Last time I went to the GP I just got told it was anxiety and depression and put on the CBT waiting list.

[marne2]

I had CBT ( went private as I was a mess at the time and couldn't wait ), I didn't find it useful, eventually got an appointment with a NHS therapist and she have up as soon as I told her I may be on the autistic spectrum ( both my dd's have ASD which probably comes from me ), was told that CBT probably won't work and was shown something called 'mindfulness', found this much more help, you might be able to find a local group or course near you and there's also a lot on the web ( worth having a look ), it made me realise that there was probably no way of curing my anxiety but there are ways of learning to cope with it.

[EauRouge]

Thanks, marne. I have heard about mindfulness but one of my biggest problems is that I can't sit still and focus. I've always got 10 things on the go and then I end up confused and disorganised and not getting anything done. Sitting still for 10 minutes and clearing my mind is way beyond my capabilities.

I'm meant to have a CBT appointment today but I'm going to cancel it, I've hardly had any sleep and I'm just not in the right frame of mind.

[msrisotto]

The research says that the treatment 'dose' for talking therapy is 12 sessions but if you're not getting on with your therapist (and she does sound inexperienced) then I wouldn't continue flogging a dead horse.

[StarShank]

Mindfulness isn't about clearing the mind, but it is hard and takes time to learn and see a benefit. If you score low on the questionnaires then maybe anxiety /depression isn't what your suffering with? What would you say the main problem is?

[EauRouge]

I'm fine most of the time, but in certain situations I get this weird feeling. Not quite panic, but similar. I've had anxiety and panic attacks before and this isn't it. It's any time where I feel like I'm not in control or where I'm expected to do something that I don't want to do. I get all antsy and stressed. I can't not be in control. It means that I've never been able to hold down a job for any significant period of time and I did really badly at secondary school (kicked out after my GCSEs).

I also hate any kind of situation where there's too much going on, like too many people or too much noise. Noise especially, I hate it when there's more than one thing going on like 2 people trying to talk to me at once or someone talking to me while I'm trying to concentrate on something else (which obv happens a lot since I had the DDs!). And a few random other things, like certain ice cream vans. But I put this down to being a musician and having sensitive ears.

Also general stuff like rubbish concentration, always losing things, messy and disorganised, which all makes me really frustrated. And I have a general feeling of disappointment in the human race .... I have really low self esteem and this is what the therapist wants to concentrate on.

The therapist spoke to a psychiatrist about me and he said because I didn't have any problems at primary school that it can't be ADHD and the therapist said it can't be ASD because I understand jokes. I've got no idea, but I know that something isn't right.

[EauRouge]

Just thought I'd update, I had another CBT session today and I was discharged and referred to another centre for long term psychological support. Not sure what that even means. It's a group therapy centre and I really don't want to do group therapy.

[eyebags63]

I found CBT useful once when I had a specific problem but not the second time around when I had more general issues. I feel it can be quite simplistic and a little invalidating; everything you say or experience is twisted around into being 'incorrect' somehow.

In your case it sounds like they have decided the CBT does not fit for your needs and are sending you for longer and more intensive therapy. You don't have to do group therapy if you don't want to, you can always say no. Wait and see what happens and what is available.

[SilverStars]

Hi it sounds like you were listened to in wanting more than 6 sessions. Often longer term support is in a group setting so may be worth a try. If you refuse group therapy then they may offer individual therapy but it often has a longer wait.

[EauRouge]

Thanks. The place I've been referred to is a charity, it's not run by the NHS. It says the fees work on a sliding scale so I hope we can afford it. DH has a good salary but I don't work so we don't have loads of spare money.

I've emailed them so I'll wait until they get in contact and see what they say. The wait for a first appointment is meant to be very short so I should know within a couple of weeks.

Thank you

[ProfessionalProcrastinator]

Please don't rule out ADD/ADHD just because your therapist "spoke to a psychiatrist who said that because you had no problems in primary school, it can't be that." DH has gone private forca diagnosis of ADHD as an adult as it is incredibly hard to get anywhere with the NHS. Have you read much about ADD/ADHD in girls/women? It's not as obvious as spotting signs of 'disruption' in primary school. DH had no problems in primary or secondary school, in fact, he ended up in a prestigious uni on a highly competitive course. .. then could not cope and was asked to leave. There are professionals - doctors, lawyers, teachers with ADHD/ADD; they obviously got through primary school ok!

[EauRouge]

Yes, I've read up on the symptoms for women and nearly all of it fits (I don't think I'm impulsive but DH says I am) but I was told that a lot of the symptoms are the same as anxiety. My therapist did agree that the depression/anxiety that I keep getting told I have could be a symptom rather than the root cause. I've always scored quite low on those PHQ questionnaires.

Thanks for sharing your DH's story. Is a private diagnosis recognised by the NHS? Does he get meds on prescription?

[tobiasfunke]

it can't be ASD because I understand jokes

I don't know much about ASD but we have a bloke with Aspergers in our office and he laughs away at all our jokes and is very very funny himself. I think your therapist might be a little bit rubbish. If you don't click with her you need to find someone else.

[ProfessionalProcrastinator]

Agree with the pp that the therapist seems rubbish! Yes, the private diagnosis is recognised by the G.P. NHS prescriptions once a diagnosis is given and any other initial communication (background info) prior to diagnosis takes place between the private psychiatrist and G.P. Unless you are worthy of locking up in prison for anti social behaviour, it seems the NHS isn't bothered about an ADHD diagnosis. Same goes for women on the autistic spectrum- easily missed or fobbed off by NHS.

I hope you get the right help Eau.

[ProfessionalProcrastinator]

I don't mean to be so vehement in bashing the NHS by the way! It is an fantastic service as a whole. Just our experience in this area and what I've heard of others experiencing the same has made me conclude that one has to go private for ADHD as an adult who isn't completely "off the rails".

[ProfessionalProcrastinator]

//www.clinical-partners.co.uk is where DH found a private psychiatrist. There wasn't anyone local to us, and it's expensive, but worth it and wish he'd done it years ago or that someone somewhere had picked it up. Ironically, he was at med school.

[EauRouge]

No, you're right about the NHS, I am feeling a bit abandoned. I had talking counselling last year and just as it started to get serious, she said I was fine and discharged me I think the NHS is fine if you've got low level anxiety/depression or if you're about to go postal but if you're somewhere in the middle then they just sort of shrug. I'm not a danger to anyone and I'm not claiming any benefits, so that's that.

Thanks for the link. I don't think we'll be able to afford to go private but it may be an option in the future.

[EauRouge]

Bumping an old thread to avoid going over it all again.

So I had an assessment at this therapy centre today. It took me over an hour to get there (and the roads were clear, which is unusual) so I had to arrange 3+ hrs of childcare, and it is basically talking therapy, which I've tried before with no luck, and I have to pay for it. I really hate talking therapy and this will be in a group setting. The only possible reason I can think of for going is that it's that or nothing.