Flute, very slow progress and frustrating, advice please

[Dancergirl]

Dd1 started playing the flute at the end of Year 4 after trying piano and deciding it wasn't for her. She has now started secondary school and hasn't even taken Grade 1 yet.

A bit of background: she was having private 30 mins lessons at school but unfortunately there was a high turnover of teachers. She had 3 different teachers whilst at primary school. The second teacher was the best one and there was talk of her preparing for grade 1 but then she left and teacher no 3 didn't pick up where she left off.

Fast forward to her new school - I did ask her new flute teacher if she could skip the early grades and go in at Gr 3 but he wants her to start at gr 1 so she's started to learn the pieces and scales. But she's finding learning v slow and difficult/ frustrating. I keep reading on here about dc getting through the grades quite quickly and I'm wondering what we're doing wrong. Does it really require hours and hours of practice? Dd is quite busy with other things but she usually manages to practice 4 times a week. Is this enough? I do have to remind/nag her though and the enjoyment seems to have gone and it's more like a chore.

I don't want to push her too hard but at the same time having learnt an instrument myself as a child, practising IS hard work and the reward often doesn't come till later.

[BellaTheGymnast]

Is she actually musical, would you say? If she isn't, then getting through even grade 1 could be quite a slog, but it sounds like she's been at it for AGES!

Did she play recorder at school?

[ZZZenAgain]

maybe it isn't the right instrument for her. It is difficult to get the hang of. How does she get on with basic stuff like blowing across the hole and generally getting a nice sound? If she plays a simple piece, does it sound nice and is the rhythm right and the tune recognisable?

Maybe she doesn't really like the feel of it held up to the side and pressed against her lower lip, maybe it is too high in pitch for her liking (she might get more out of a saxophone or cello), maybe she is more comfortable with clear rhythms than melody. Hard to say.

I know you've been paying for lessons for a while now and she also found piano wasn't for her so you won't like this but I wonder if something different would suit her better. Have you considered singing so she can develop her musicality without all the fingering? I am sure she is musical enough to learn and enjoy playing an instrument but it isn't always that easy to get a good fit and as you say, she has changed teacher a great deal.

If she likes the instrument, it is the practice. Generally, try to get her to practise every day, even 10 minutes every day. It is the regularity of it which does the trick and using practice time to improve. What you have to do is not play your piece through over and over, you can spend an hour and a half doing this but you just stay at the same level. How does she practise, what does she do?

[ZZZenAgain]

she would progress much faster on the guitar, whether she did finger picking or chords and would soon be playing recognisable pieces. I wonder if she would take to the guitar.

I think she has spent just over 2 years on the flute so far, no wonder she has lost interest in practising if the pieces aren't getting much more interesting. My dd really took off with a love for the violin when she began playing in groups with other children. The whole thing became sociable and fun. Wonder what your dd's secondary school offers in the way of orchestras/ensembles and when she might be ready to join something like that.

[AnitaManeater]

I used to play the flute, it took me from yr 5 to yr 11 to make it to Grade 6. Is there a concert band or little orchestra local to you that she could join? Thats what kept me interested in playing and pushed me through the grades.

[Colleger]

It's probably not the right instrument. I can't blow the clarinet but got to grade 4 on oboe (as an adult) in three months, and I still can't blow the clarinet!

[Dancergirl]

The thing is, she can actually make a very nice sound on it. Some of the high notes don't always come out straight away but generally the notes are clear. I'm reluctant to try yet another instrument because after playing the piano for a while, she was absolutely convinced that flute was for her. And we've spent a lot of money on lessons.

Although, ironically enough, she quite likes having a little play on the piano now (I play). Her friend who also plays the piano taught her an easy tune which she picked up quickly. I wonder whether piano's better for her after all....?

In terms of musicality, she's probably not the most musical child but not that bad either.

[BellaTheGymnast]

How about you get some music for a couple of songs that she knows, and you could play together? If she already knows how it should go she might be able to just enjoy playing, and not worry about reading the music etc.

Like a couple of other posters have said, the ensemble side of playing might really help her come on.

[weblette]

Ds1 was exactly the same. He's v musical but it took forever to get to Grade 1. His teacher suggested he try oboe, he's an absolute natural and having started just in September will take his first grade in January.

Maybe it's not the right instrument for her. The money on lessons won't have been wasted, she'll already have the basics for whatever else she tries.

[ZZZenAgain]

since you play the piano, can you face overseeing (gently) a short daily practice, winding up with playing each piece together and maybe start doing some simple Christmas carols together, work on a new carol a day or a week? I think you can get her through grade 1 pretty fast if you would be willing to do it with her. Maybe that is all she needs and then you can step back. Help her practise, check she is up with the theory, try to make it relaxed and enjoyable.

[Dancergirl]

zen that is what I've been doing with her on and off. Difficult to find a quiet time with my other 2 around, but today we were alone and I helped her with practice.

Do you think it's worth persevering with? Or cut our losses?

[ZZZenAgain]

does she want to continue and is she playing grade 1 pieces now?

[Dancergirl]

She's finding it hard but she's chosen 2 of the gr 1 pieces with my help and has made a start on them. And her scales are not too bad.

[HappyTurquoise]

if she is doing a bit of practice each week, then I'd say encourage her to persevere. Getting to grade 1 generally takes longer than from grade 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc. It's a good sign that she is getting a thorough grounding, which will stand her in good stead.

You could ask her tutor whether she will be ready to take grade 1 soon, and which examining board she would be using. We used to live in an area where Trinity was popular, and the tutors tended to miss out grades 1 & 2 and get the children to about grade 3 before taking exams. Then we moved and DCs took grade 1 ABRSM after a term or two of further tuition, and did well, and then took a further grade per year, roughly (if that sounds slow, they both play/played several instruments, and neither I nor DH is particularly musical.)

If you can afford lessons with another instrument, let her try another one as well, without giving up on the flute.

[ZZZenAgain]

I wouldn't continue with things the way they have been because I think she has got into a bit of a rut and also feels it is too hard and she cannot do it. So I would either drop it (have another go at piano maybe or give her a break) or I would oversee her practice every day (even just 10 minutes but 10 minutes with a Suzuki style parental involvement). I think now to move her along and give her the confidence to believe she is good at it, you will need to be hands-on about it and do it daily or say 6 x week. Then she will definitely progress well. I don't know what your situation is and how difficult 10-15 mins quiet time is with your other 2 children around. I think I wouldn't leave her to struggle on with 10 minutes 4 x week on her own. Can the other two paint or draw for that time in the same room if they are small?

I am sure though, I am entirely sure that she is capable of doing it. As you say, her intonation is good and that is the main thing really so if you take her in hand, she'll be fine. If not, I don't know if it is really worth it unless it gives her pleasure.

I would love you to come back and tell us she has passed grade 1. It will give her such a boost.

[MordionAgenos]

I'm sorry but it does sound as though the flute might not be the instrument for her.

[Lancelottie]

Christmas carols are a really good idea, as you can go for lots that she knows (so she can hear what she is aiming for) plus some less known ones, which will be great sight-reading practice for her.

They also tend to be pitched rather well for the flute (and you could inflict them on any tolerant friends or neighbours as a 'Christmas concert' by way of giving her some performance practice).

[mouldyironingboard]

I would suggest that your DD keeps going towards grade 1 flute. Some children take longer to get to their first exam than others. If her high notes haven't been completely secure that could be the reason that she hasn't yet taken her exam as marks tend to be deducted if the upper register is weak (even at grade 1!).

Even if her playing has improved I would still suggest taking the grade 1 exam first because it will give her confidence if she does well and she can progress to grade 2 or grade 3 very quickly if she does regular concentrated practise.

[Dancergirl]

UPDATE:

Firstly thank you so much for all your helpful replies.

Amazingly in the last few days things have really improved due to me helping her practice as suggested. And she actually said to me it's helping her! And her enthusiasm has picked up. Her scales and arpeggios sound ok apart from a couple, she's not sure about D sharp so needs to ask her teacher about that. Pieces - made a start on the A piece and C piece both of which likes and are manageable. I'm going to get an aural book so I can do that with her.

In hindsight I probably should have intervened a bit earlier instead of letting things slide.

She also sees me playing the piano which I think helps to spur her on.

[GrimmaTheNome]

My DDs a lot like yours. She started flute lessons in yr3, did her grade I in yr 6 - now in yr9 she's just about to do her grade 2.

She isn't that naturally musical - which is exactly why I wanted her to play something like the flute where you don't need to pitch the note yourself. Her singing got more in tune. She can read music - so she has taught herself to play descant and alto recorder which she has spells of enjoying noodling around with (she'll probably join the recorder group at school next term). She's not really good enough at flute for the orchestra, but so long as she's enjoying it she can carry on for the rest of this year - we'll probably stop when she starts her GCSE years as the lessons are in school lesson time, and then just get easy pieces she can play for pleasure if she wants. I think she's finally twigged that she needs to practice to progress, but its up to her - I'm not going to nag her (though I sort of wish I had done more of that earlier).

She's actually got a very good tone, apparently, and can now play well enough that its a pleasure to listen to - that's 'good enough' for me.

[MordionAgenos]

Dancer Greensleeves? D# is normal D plus the little finger of right hand. You do know there are only 3 scales at Grade 1 - F and G maj and E min, right? And they are only 1 octave.

[MordionAgenos]

@Grimma If I never hear March Militaire again, it will be too soon. Sadly there are 3 more weeks before DD2's grade 2 exam.

[Dancergirl]

Yes Greensleeves lol! And Study in F I think it is for C. B pieces are harder to choose though.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Yes, we went through Greensleeves (Hot Chilli for the List B - she scraped a Merit so I guess that worked OK)

... a couple more weeks of the March Militaire to go. I can't stop internally singing that song, you know, '...he could play the big bass drum'...


The examiners (and teachers) must get pretty sick of the same few tunes for several years at a time, mustn't they.

[Dancergirl]

I looked at Hot Chilli, some of the rhythms seem tricky for Grade 1. It's a possibility though.

[MordionAgenos]

Everyone does hot chilli. It's fine, it has a momentum all its own and the accompaniment is very helpful. DD2 did short waltz for her piece C last term. This term she's doing march militaire (which I have always hated since I was a child), naughty but nice, and study in..whatever it is. G I think. I must say, the recorder grade 3 pieces are much nicer. To be fair the flute grade 3 pieces are nicer but she can't really manage two octave scales yet - not enough puff.