To Beavers or not to Beavers, that is the question...

[ragged]

I expect DS to be offered a place at Beavers soon, age 6y11months. I had thought to decline because:

he is: hot-headed, volatile, argumentative &
inclined to pretend-punch and play-punch, especially if over-excited, often taken badly by the recipient
very emotional, basically a big cry baby if stressed
prone to hitting, shouting, throwing things when cross (is often suddenly cross)
especially if he's lost any kind of competition (is very competitive)
hasn't mentioned the idea of Beavers in a long time, anyway
I asked on another parenting forum and they said please DON'T take him if there's any risk he'll hit somebody
I'm afraid he'll antagonise other children, parents and helpers
so badly he could even be kicked out of the group, which would be horrible for his self-esteem
we've had plenty these types of problems with him at other ExC activities
we're not even religious

I am half-reconsidering because someone who runs a Beaver group (too far from here, alas) has briefly met DS many times, & says that her group copes well with kids with SN, I should give it a try. She is very much a glass half-full type person, though, and I'm not sure that's realistic to expect of others! But then I guess I still cling to this stupid fantasy that he could make friends and build confidence if going to Beavers were a success.

What are behaviour expectations of Beavers? To put things in context, I'm pulled aside by DS's Teacher maybe once every 3-4 weeks about a behaviour issue, and I know they are dealing with some things in house without me being notified (such as sometimes keeping him in some lunchtimes for rough play). DS was taken off a behaviour IEP a month or 2 ago.

[ragged]

ps: It's not practical for me to stay with DS at Beavers.

[stealthcat]

Could you speak to the leader of the group that your DS would be going to? If you can explain the situatio to them you should get a feel for whether they would be able to cope with your DS or not. It seems a shame to just decline the space without doing that, as as you say, it could potentially be a positive experience for your DS.

[ragged]

I need to get my head around what to say to the leader: "DS can be a handful, can you cope?" ?

I'm just terrified it could go badly and at very least upset the parents of other children, then the gossip comes back to me one way or the other (this is already happening to some extent up at the school, and has negatively affected DS, me & DD). Or at worst, he could actually be asked to leave, and that would be horrid for his self-esteem. That seems a bit extreme, but I don't know if I dare take the risk. It might be better not to get his hopes up. He will be anxious about it if he does go -- and being anxious is one of his triggers for naughty behaviour. He doesn't have any friends at school right now, either, so is a bit vulnerable.

I don't think I know enough about what Beavers do to figure out if it would suit DS. Make things? Play games? (competitive element, although DS mostly copes okay with afterschool multi-sports club). Outings...?

[GreenToes]

I worked with one Beaver colony for three-four years and have just started with a new one. The kids have a great time, and even the wilder ones tend to do what they are told eventually. To be honest, most of the children I have seen at Beavers do at least one of the things you mentioned your son doing so we are pretty used to dealing with it! We tend to do team games so a group of children will win, or do games where no one can win/lose as otherwise it is a lot of hassle to deal with all the tears and tantrums.

It depends on your local group but the two I have experience with, and from going to "Beaverees" with other local groups, it is not particularly strict/formal. There will be times where the Beavers will be expected to sit still and listen, but we try to keep these times as short as possible, make them exciting and have lots of audience participation to try and stop the children wandering off etc. We want the children to have fun and maybe learn a few new skills, rather than trying to keep them disciplined all the time!

Also you may find that he will really get into it. I worked with one boy who sounds very similar to your son a few years ago and then when he started earning badges he really calmed down as he was so keen to do all his badge work and get as many as possible!

Please do give it a try, children love it and Scouting is a great thing to get involved with :)

[ragged]

lol, I cannot talk like that, Justabout :).
But thanks for the encouragement.

[IndigoBell]

I would go for Beavers. The whole scout movement is very good with SN (well at least officially and IME of 1 troop)

DS has now just gone up to scouts . And he's finding it very hard socially (he keeps complaining he's the smallest and so can't threaten to beat anyone up )

But he keeps going, and each week (I hope) his social skills improve.

DS has been going since he was 6, and I do think it has improved his social skills, and he's had loads of fun,and learnt loads of other things, and most importantly been encouraged to take risks (unlike school...)

[ragged]

Not sure I should have brought SN into it, not the way I said, anyway. DS doesn't have any SN you can put a name to. But the encouraging lady I know who runs a Beaver group meant that she had children in the pack with disruptive behaviour due to their SN, so she didn't think my DS was any worse than what she knew they could already cope with.

I am a little cynical, sorry. Places like MN are heavy with an ethos of tolerance, but in the real world, people are quick to label your child a brat. I think a lot of people will read my OP and think "I do NOT want my child in a group with a child like that" -- whether they'll admit it publicly or not.

[IndigoBell]

I didn't judge you or DS before. Your post made him sound like he was a child who struggled to behave appropriately in social situations.

But if you prefer I can judge him. I can judge him as naughty and you as a bad parent. Far better than him being 'labelled' with some kind of SN that makes him struggle to behave appropriately in social situations.

Yeah, I'm sure, all his inappropriate behaviours is down to you, to your parenting, to him being a boy, to him being young, to school having unrealistic expectations......

Because Beavers isn't normally right for young boys :( It's not really designed for them is it.

[GreenToes]

I was at Beavers last night and then remembered this thread. We have one boy, he's relatively new to the group, I think (so am I!), who seems to struggle with instructions and also with group situations. A lot of his behaviour is similar to how you described your son. He was refusing to take part in the game we were playing, and none of us leaders could get through to him, and then suddenly another little girl from his lodge just came over, took hold of his hand and led him over to the line for the game. After that he just got on with the game and had a great evening, the pair of them were chatting away and he was so much happier, it was really touching to see! :)

[Isla77]

Could you ask if you could visit on your own for one of the sessions to see what goes on and chat to the adults about your son afterwards? It would give you a feel for any situations that may provide triggers for him and you could discuss these with the group leaders. Seems a shame not to give it a go as it might be really helpful for him.