music practise

[musicalmum1]

How to get the DC to fit in their 30 mins of daily practise without having a major fight? Should I just let them stop?
I am a musician myself and if I had a penny for every time an adult said to me: I wish I had continued playing the piano or ...insert all other instruments, I would have quite a nest egg by now.
Are you a lapsed musician?

[musicalmum1]

oops - should that be practise or practice?

[elphabadefiesgravity]

How old are they?

If they are under secondary age then I should forget 30 mins and just do 10 mins each night. It is the quality, not quantity that matters.

If they are older then it needs to become part of the routine, set a specific time and stick to it.

[roisin]

In this house music practice is non-negotiable. If they want to have lessons, they must practise every day.

as elphabadefiesgravity says you need a routine, which just happens automatically.

I do think you need to find a balance between forcing children to continue learning when they've had enough, and allowing them to jack it in at the first whim. But either way if they're having £££ lessons they have to practise.

ds2 gave up piano lessons for a couple of years (when he was about 9), but has now decided to take it up again; so it's not the end of the world if they choose to have a break.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

it is with an s :)
I think its finding a time to do it so that it becomes automatic like brushing your teeth. dd does 15 minutes each day as part of her routine. I'd struggle to persuade her to do more than that willingly.

[elphabadefiesgravity]

Dd is only 9 so she practices 10 mins a day. we have to have a routine becasue dh is a music teacher so we have to co-ordinate the piano availability.

Practice time is usually just before tea, enought time for the room to warm up oil filled portable heater) but before dh starts teaching. She has Tuesdays (gets in at 7.00pm after dance lessons) and Fridays (grandparents pick her up from school and she stays there) off.

[PandaG]

DS does 15/20 mins Mon-Fri, at around 6.45 am. He is a lark by nature, so gets up, shower, dressed, breakfasted then does practise automatically with no nagging from us.

DD on the other hand hasn't found her routine, and so gets nagged to practise after school

[musicalmum1]

thanks for your comments.

One in secondary, but only 13, and one in primary aged 8.
Both actually quite talented, with an amazing ear.
I am quite old school and had a very strict East European piano teacher, whom I loved.

Older boy plays cello and piano, the younger just piano.

Older boy has recently expressed desire to learn bass guitar, but I don#t want him to quit school orchestra.

DH and I both work freelance, so routine can be difficult to establish.
I thought that giving them the choice of when to practise, as long as they do it, was a better idea than insisting on a routine?

[roisin]

btw it's practice if it's a noun and practise when it's a verb.

So: I am going to do my piano practice.
I am going to practise the piano.

[PorcelinaOfTheVastOceans]

i used to play piano and violin until i was mid-teens. glad i dropped the violin, i never really enjoyed it, but i wish wish wish i'd carried on with my piano!

i'd just recommend as much of a routine as you can manage, and agree with roisin, if they want the lessons then practice is non-negotiable.

not everyone is born with a natural talent for something, hope they make the most of it!

[roisin]

What stage is he at with the cello? If he's very competent already (say grade 6 or so), he could potentially pick it up again in a few years if he needs to. So I'd be very laidback about him dropping it now for a while.

But he's still very much an emerging player, then I'd be trying to encourage him to keep it up for a while.

ds2 (11) has singing lessons and is supposed to do 15 mins every day, but actually rarely does less than 30 mins by the time he's done a warm up, some sightreading practice, practice aural tests, technical exercises, sing through his main pieces a couple of times, then maybe some note-bashing/learning a new piece...

I'm very much of the opinion that if you're paying for lessons - no matter how talented and musical the children - if they're not doing regular practice, you might as well take £20 notes and burn them!

[musicalmum1]

@ roisin no wonder I was confused....
I like to hear that practice is non-negotiable in your house. Is that because you established a firm parenting style and appeal to common sense of your kids works, or do you need to resort to bribery as well?

I sometimes wonder if DC music teachers are a bit uninspiring?

But - as I also teach music, I know what it's like when kids show up without having practised all week (:

[roisin]

For people who say "I wish I'd kept it up", why not take it up again now?

I had piano lessons for about 6 years when I was a child and still play and sing regularly now. I get huge pleasure from it, even though technically I'm not as competent as I was when I was 13. (I could be if I was prepared to put in the hard graft, but I'm not!)

Some instruments it is less easy to play in a less committed fashion - especially brass and some wind instruments. I played the oboe quite seriously when I was a teenager, but it's not something you can just pick up when you feel like it.

[pointydog]

30 minutes a day seems a lot.

The best way of motivating the dds is when there is a clear reason for practising. They make sure they get is absolutely right for the school concerts (2 a year) and if a friend/family get=together is coming up where they will be playing something. Exams are good motivators too.

I generally leave them to it. I want them to motivate themselves, I think it's a good attitude to have in life and I don;t like being caught up in irritating battles about music practice and homeowkr and such like.

[roisin]

"firm parenting style" - yeah, that's probably me all round.

My house feels very relaxed and comfortable to me and others, but actually there are various expectations and 'rules' underpinning the calmness!

I'm quite happy to negotiate things with the boys, or have their opinions/input or discuss things with them, when there is a genuine option in my/our minds. But if it's something that is fixed, then I tell them and they know there's no point arguing with me about it.

I can't remember whether we bribed ds2 for music practice when he was little - I think we might have done, I can't recall specifics though. We don't now though.

[pointydog]

And I agree with roisin. That adult whine about 'I wish I'd kept it up' annoys me. Pick it up again, put in the practice, remember how hard it is and carry on. STop whining. It's nbot that hard if you really want to do it.

Lots of people want to play music but just can't be bothered putting in the time and effort.

[roisin]

I think the character/personality of the music teacher does influence the motivation of the pupil to practise.

ds2 worships his singing teacher and wants to impress him! (Just as well as he sees him 7 times a week - for boys choir, chamber choir, school class music lessons and singing lesson!)

[brimfull]

I agree with pointydogs style
dd was motivated for school concerts and exams
when she reached grade 8 she sighed with relief but enjoys playing for fun now and seems to play more

[musicalmum1]

thanks for all your comments.
I agree with all of you that self-motivation is the ideal. It's just about finding creative ways of getting there.

I think what DC enjoy most is playing with others - or DH and myself - but school provision (incl. orchestra) imo not very good.
Might cast the net wider for Saturday orchestra or music ensemble.

I know (from personal experience, as I did study music at conservatoire) that in music (as in life)the outcome is mostly proportional to the effort you put in, actually the best thing about the amy chua book (battle hymn of the tiger mother).

[roisin]

Oh gosh, have you actually read her book? What's it like? The reporting seemed very extreme.

[musicalmum1]

@roisin I have. very entertaining, and I am sure quite a bit of hyperbole.
considering the effort, blood, sweat and tears she put in, I would say though she did not achieve enough with her kids - just the fact that her daughter played in Carnegie Hall means nothing. The school could have hired it.
Now if she had played Carnegie hall as a soloist with the NY Philharmonic, that would have been a different matter.

On the plus side, she is quite frank that her draconian approach totally backfired with her second daughter.

the good points she makes is that nothing comes from nothing and that to enjoy something it helps to be good at 'it', whatever 'it' might be.

This is certainly something which kids today don't seem to get - possibly because heavily edited TV shows, which make success seem effortless and overnight...

Also one of the reasons I am so keen to motivate my kids and not have the stop their music tuition.

[roisin]

Yes, I agree: I think learning an instrument is a great discipline. Because it doesn't come 'easily' - without hard graft - even the most gifted musicians have to put in some serious hard work.

With our standards-driven curriculum, so many 'brighter' children get used to achieving the ceiling of tests without having to try particularly hard. So they don't learn skills of perseverance and determination and resilience. Then suddenly when the work does become tougher (GCSE or A Level or Degree) they become unstuck, because they can't motivate themselves to put in the effort.

I might see if I can get the book from the library; I didn't warm to the woman in the papers, so don't want to contribute to her royalty earnings! Even though I want to read the book.

[austenreader]

My musical DD used to do some in the mornings before school and a bit in the evenings. I sometimes had to nag in the early days when the initial enthusiasm had worn off a bit but I found that it was better to let her do plenty of practice on one day if she felt like it and less on another.

She had a teacher she didn't like for a while and then it was a struggle to keep her going. She almost gave up.

Once she reached grade 6 with a new teacher she had the skill to make practising a real pleasure so it was never a problem after that. Then I worried about Repetitive Strain!!

Oh, and as an older teen she would do her school work and then have 30 mins or so of music to clear her brain before getting back to the books.

[musicalmum1]

Maybe I need to look at teacher a bit more.

Feel a bit stupid that I also teach (not full time, though) and am seemingly 'failing' with my own kids to establish a good 'regime'.

Also, feel that younger one is watching the older and imitating...

[mumtolawyer]

DD does 10 mins a night (or a bit more) piano and about the same for oboe (very new to this instrument) BUT this term she's having two half hour lessons a week instead of one lesson and 20 minutes piano daily. This is to fit in the oboe (one lesson a week).

It's only in the last year or so that she has done it properly without some chivvying (to say the least!) - she is currently Y4.

She also does recorder practice but that is a bit more hit and miss. Fortunately singing is just to learn songs by heart - all teaching of tunes is done at school!

[Menagerie]

I think there's a big difference between chivvying and reminding.

One of my sons never practised, and trying to encourage him to was like pulling teeth. I dreaded it. So he doesn't play an instrument now. The other is besotted with piano and practises without being reminded every day. He's not brilliant but he's young and enthusiastic and it's a pleasure to give him a hand on tougher pieces. If he went through a mulish phase I'd nag because I know deep down he loves it, but his brother really didn't, even though he was good naturally, so it really did feel like setting fire to £20 notes, as Roisin says.