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Ethical dilemmas

I am a conflicted omnivore and think I need to go vegetarian. Would you talk to me about this?

14 replies

LiDLrichardsPistachioSack · 13/05/2014 12:43

I was a vegetarian, sometimes vegan, all through my teenage years/early twenties. Then I slipped into this belief that while I still abhor factory/intensive farming and inhumane treatment of animals, that the actual killing of an animal, done without a great deal of suffering involved, was acceptable to me and therefore I began eating locally-raised/labeled free-range/higher welfare meat with abandon.

Now I'm not so sure even that sits well with me. Obviously I don't know 100% if the animals reared under those labels are actually treated decently, or even if they are, how do I know they weren't shipped off to some abbatoir to be slaughtered where they were killed inhumanely or mistreated in some other way?

I'm interested in the environmental issues with meat and fish and the theory that vegetarianism also contributes to animal suffering through large scale agriculture killing loads of small animals and their habitats and reliance on industrial chemicals. I can't quite wrap my head around what the planet would actually be like if we stopped eating animals or fish. Or their products.

And eggs. I buy free range eggs from small local farms here in the SW. I'm wondering if there's cruelty in that as well. Or local dairy. Argh! I can't stop thinking about this stuff, and am having such an ethical brain-melt about it. Googling just confuses me more. Would anyone kindly share their thoughts with me?

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Catnuzzle · 13/05/2014 12:51

I used to be a veggie, and a very strict one. Now I eat chicken and fish again.

I think you just need to do what you can live with yourself. Ideally I'd like to create my own food from scratch, but modern life does not allow the time or space for this. You have to find a compromise between doing the absolute right thing (for you) and what you can realistically manage and your conscience can cope with.

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inthesark · 13/05/2014 12:53

Are you me? I was 19 years a vegetarian then went back to eating meat about eight years ago, but only really started properly when I was pregnant, as it made a huge difference to how I felt.

Partly I stopped being vegetarian as I was eating a lot of fish, and thought that probably was environmentally worse.

Having eaten a lot of meat (on the rebound) I am now worrying about that and we have cut down quite a bit these days.

My theories - for what it's worth, they're not entirely thought out - is that I buy organic or very known locally free range, because that is the best guarantee I have. Also organic eggs. And we don't eat much meat at all, as that's the only way it can be environmentally sustainable.

But the point I get stuck at is that, if we did not eat animals and their products, these animals would in the main not exist. So is that better or worse for them? I really don't know.

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ThePartyArtist · 14/05/2014 14:20

Vegetarianism has been proven to be healthier and better for the environment. No reason not to be vegetarian as far as I can see! Just make sure you read up on alternative sources of protein and iron (dark green veg is good) so you get enough.

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Artistic · 14/05/2014 14:30

I have been a vegetarian + egg consumer all my life. Until a year ago when I included fish in my diet and my family's. This was purely for health reasons as I felt that protein was just not enough in a vegetarian diet. Also fish provides omega oils which is good for health. Am not thrilled about the switch but I feel like I have no choice if I want my DD to be healthier than I have been & not suffer all my ailments borne out of poor muscle strength.

Also, I'd read up a few years ago - that increase in crop rotation and consumption is depleting the soil of its nutrients. As a result the veg we eat does not provide us with sufficient nutrition. On the other hand the seaweed and seabed crop are still pure and have maximum nutrition, so eating fish gives you the best shot at having those nutrients. This could be rubbish - but it made sense, and I decided that I need to do something - anything to feel a bit stronger.

Am also considering introducing meat for my DD but am quite uncomfortable about it (for the same reasons as OP), so still on the fence.

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SixImpossible · 14/05/2014 14:33

Unless you live totally off-grid and totally self-sufficient, you cannot avoid participating in some way in the abuse/misuse of the environment/animals/other humans. So you have to make up your mind what small steps you will take to mitigate the damage we cause. You cannot take responsibility for all of it.

If you want to return to full vegetarianism, then that is a valid choice. If OTOH you want to continue eating meat, then small amounts of high-welfare meat is also a valid choice.

As to whether high-welfare truly is high-welfare, I can tell you that my cousin is farmer deeply committed to animal welfare, diversity, sustainability and community. He and his wife know every cow, calf, bull, hen and cock on their farm individually. They genuinely care for the animals' well-being at every stage of their lives, including transport to the abattoir and the slaughtering process itself.

This does mean that their meat is premium price, but also premium quality.

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LiDLrichardsPistachioSack · 14/05/2014 17:50

Thanks so much for all your thoughts. It's true, isn't it, that regardless of our choices, just by being human we have a bit of blood on our hands so to speak.

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smokeandfluff · 09/06/2014 22:04

Most of the animals we eat are bred to be slaughtered. If people did not eat animals, then they would not be bred, and the land would be used for crops. Crops yield more calories per acre than animals, so if you're worried about global food shortages, vegetarianism is the way to go.
Like you said though, we all have blood on our hands. The people growing vegetables/coffee/rice/sugar cane/pulses etc may be treated badly and paid unfairly. We all need to make decisions that we are comfortable with.

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lljkk · 09/06/2014 22:18

I think your real quandary is philosophical about how to make best moral decisions in life. You want more decisive guiding principles that you can believe in, not more facts about how which food is produced. Sorry, am not much of a philosopher so can't say how to figure that out

Um, how do I live with myself? I think by having a very low opinion of my contribution! In an ideal world I might be vegan solely for health & environmental reasons (but I would struggle against being associated with animal rights movement, which I generally loathe).

Being Vegan seems like a huge PITA, so probably wouldn't last long.

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ChickenMe · 26/06/2014 00:53

Have you read The Vegetarian Myth? I found it very I interesting although it may not be for everyone.

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avocadotoast · 11/10/2014 17:10

OP, you sound just like me! I was veggie for a year and a half and then vegan for nearly four years after that, and then one day I just started eating meat again. This was a good three and a half years ago.

Then around June I felt guilty and read 'Eating Animals' by Jonathan Safran Foer. It's not a preachy book at all, it's just a guy who wanted to know more about meat production when his son was born. It's very American, but a lot of it translates across here too.

Sadly pretty much as soon as I found out I was pregnant I started craving meat, so I've fallen off the wagon... I do feel very guilty though...

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itsbetterthanabox · 14/10/2014 21:03

Yes the milk and egg industry are very cruel. There is a lot of suffering. There are obviously ways to reduce that and eating milk and eggs isn't inherently wrong like eating meat.
However well animal is treated there is no justification for murdering it. There are only positives of vegetarianism. Go for it!

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BaffledSomeMore · 14/10/2014 21:14

Long term veggie.

Nothing an individual does makes much difference in the grand scheme of things so don't get too hung up on being a strict anything. I'm probably veggie more out of habit and conscience now than any kind of moral crusade.
Eat mostly veggie and on the occasions you choose to eat meat or fish then choose well.
Vègetarianism is an imperfect choice. And the flaws are many. It's better all round than existing on Big Macs or battery hens. Being veggie can be your normal without being exclusive.

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batgirl1984 · 14/10/2014 21:33

Baffled speaks well.
A (veggie) friend of mine got hold of the term 'flexiterian' to describe me. I had been vegetarian for years a few years before I met my friend, and, basically, only ate meat sometimes. I hadn't felt the need to label 'eats veggie and meat food' as I thought that was all non veggie / vegan people but apparently eating meat once or twice a week is unusual enough to need a label!
How about you spend a couple of weeks making food choices that seem right to you, then label that, rather than choosing a label to fit. If that means 'only eats meat if its organic and sunday' or 'eats more meat when breastfeeding' then that's ok. If its 'never eats anything derived from animals' then that's ok too.

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itsbetterthanabox · 14/10/2014 23:18

Bring vegan is tough. Doable but hard. And there are ways to eat animal products like milk and eggs without causing harm.
There is never an excuse to kill and being veggie is easy peasy!

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