Increasing annual leave - what's fair

[KatyMac]

My business closes twice a year for 2 weeks

Currently the staff don't get paid for those two weeks & get 4 weeks leave & 4 days Bank holiday (we are closed the other bank holidays)

As I am a nice boss I want to increse the annual leave that my staff have but I need to be fair

If they were to have 30 days leave but have to take the 2 weeks that I close, is that fair? It would include all the bank holidays - somehow (I'm not sure why) it doesn't seem a very good deal & I think they lose out but I don't know why?
I close from Christmas Day to New Years Day and also the week of the August bank holiday does that make any difference?

[KatyMac]

bump

[perpetualworrier]

If they get 4 weeks plus 2 weeks now = 30 working days? , plus 4 bank hols = 34

If you change that to 30 days, to include 4 b/hols, they are 4 days worse off!

[KatyMac]

That's it isn't it

Now they get 24 paid and 10 unpaid
Then they get 30 paid & none not paid

Actually Perpetualworrier I really like you name

[WaynettaSlob]

When you put it like that Katymac I can't see how they'd argue - could you ask one or two of them for their opinion?
(BTW it IS vwery nice of you)

[KatyMac]

I wonder which is better?

I could offer the choice?

Oh I don't know (you see why I like your name)

[KatyMac]

I guess 34 days paid would be best - noy sure I can afford it tho'

[perpetualworrier]

Ah now I didn't read it properly and didn't realise they got some unpaid.

If a choice could work for you I think that would be well received. Where I work we have the option of buying/selling our hols, so this would be similar I suppose.

Perfect world (for the employee) would be 30 days paid, plus b/hols of course.

From my POV, I would be reluctant to lose days hols, even if I gained financially. Could you give them the 30 days paid you are planning and then the option to take another 4 (or 5 for round numbers sake) unpaid? I think if you did that you would win employer of the year

[KatyMac]

Tricky

[elkiedee]

Isn't legal paid holiday going up to 28 days including bank holidays (from 20 at the moment) anyway?

I think I'd prefer more paid holiday and less unpaid personally, but I'm not your staff. Perhaps you should check out the pros and cons of those two options in more detail to see that you can really afford to offer them, and consult everyone - I don't know if there's any legal consultation requirement in your business but I think if you're going to sound some of your staff out it would be better to ask everyone what they think and then respond showing how you've taken account of their thoughts - showing that you've been fair?

I understand closing over Christmas, but how do your staff feel about having to take holiday (unpaid or paid) at the end of August? I know some might want to be off then, but do all of them? And would there be parents then who would prefer to have childcare that week? Just wondering, I realise it's complicated for you but having more choice about when to take holiday might also be a positive thing for some of your staff.

[claire7676]

Holidays are tricky and I have just been trying to decide what to do. Have read ure other post too (we run a reataurant and again are very keen to be good employers, against the need to balance the books....(!)) Leagally, u have to give 4.8 weeks each. Bank holidays can be part of this 4.8 weeks, but if not do not have to be paid. (By April 2009 this will be 5.6 weeks), so a full timers minimum (simply to give a perspective) is 24 days paid, which you currently fulfill. By April next year, it will be 28 days paid. I have to say, 34 days paid souns like a lot to me and a large burden to cover....... At least, as perpetual worrier says, if you gave them the option of increasing unpaid days, you would have the money to cover the shift?

[CarGirl]

How about 28 days paid (as it will be enforced anyway soon) and a further 4 or 5 days unpaid?

[KatyMac]

I can't open in August - I can't have the business open when I'm in the house - I end up working & I want some time with my DD during the summer holidays - she gets so little time with just me

Still worrying about the leave - I could afford 30 days but not sure about more

[Remotew]

New rules will grant employees 28 days. Asking them to take unpaid holidays seems a bit of a grey area. You can check with ACAS about any changes you wish to make. They will tell you what required by law and then you can give extra based on what you can afford and past practise.

[KatyMac]

Is that April 08 or 09?

[KatyMac]

OK I found the legislation

It's April 09

So if I offered 30 days paid and maybe 4 unpaid?

Gosh you try to do something nice & it gets so complicated

[claire7676]

I think its really great ure trying to do something nice, just think about the impact on ure wage bill of all this enhanced holiday..... U will have to cover it (I assume, ratios etc)?

[KatyMac]

Yep I will but (hopefully) it should cost less than a pay increase (maybe?)

[KatyMac]

Plus I'll have to do it next year anyway

[sparkleymummy]

As long as you give the 24 days paid (which can include bank holidays) then you are doing what you are obliged to do. Anything more than this then you are going over and above what the law requires. HOWEVER most businesses do offer more than this. My view would be to find some similar businesses and try to find out what they offer. That way you can stay competitive

[KatyMac]

I'm fairly unique