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Please help, advice needed on taking a lot of sick days from p/t work with school age kids _ is flowery out there?

20 replies

chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 08:07

posted this in GBTwork section too!

I'm working part time , been there a few months, have no contract, no holidays, no sick pay,work term time only

I've got 2 kids who seem to be off school sick a LOT!! and I've had to take unpaid time off to look after them as there is no one else to help me

I think my work is getting fed up with me and I don't know where I stand, please help!

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 09:35

hi chelsygirl

What kind of organisation is it can you say? It's illegal for you to have no kind of contract, no holiday and no sick pay for a start. Why is that do you know?

In terms of the time off, you are entitled to emergency time off for things like this, but it would only be one or two days at a time, if your children are ill longer than that you would be expected to use those days to sort out alternative arrangements. There's no limit to how many times you can take this leave off, but if it becomes too often and it's a problem for your employer,they should talk to you about that. Here's some information about this right to emergency time off to have a read. As you can see it's not really to be used for childcare or nursing sick relatives.

As you've been there such a short time you have very limited rights in terms of unfair dismissal, so unless there's some kind of discrimination involved, essentially they could just sack you if they want to.

So you are on shaky ground if you keep taking time off and it's causing a problem at work. Do you have a DP or DH or the children's father who could take some of the strain off you when the children aren't well?

I am concerned about the other things you mention. You should have at least a written statement about your employment containing certain information about your job, holiday, sick pay and other things, see here. Do you have nothing like this? Even if you are working term-time only you are entitled to paid holiday and other rights as well. Might be worth spending a few minutes doing this questionnaire about your employment which will tell you exactly what you are entitled to.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 09:39

oh great thanks for answering!

I'm just going to take ds to the doctors just now, I'll get back with a reply when we're finished!

I'm so glad I've got hold of you, everyone at the school gates I've asked about this just shrugs their shoulders, they all seem to have family who help out when their kids are sick so aren't ever in my position

will come back soon!

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louannmac3 · 26/02/2008 10:10

I have three young children and work 5 days a week (part time) as I cant afford not too, but it's a nightmare as they always seem to get ill and just pass it from one to the other!
My mum looks after the youngest whilst the other two are at school but when any of them are sick its too much for her to cope with! I just dont know what to do for the best! I feel like I am being unfair to work but need to be there for my kids and earning money.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 11:55

I feel it is unfair to my work too, which I hate. My mum is 80 and I've got no family who can babysit, dh works away a lot and is the main wage earner. There's just no one I can turn to when the kids aren't well and as I said they seem to be unwell a lot just now and pass it to each other!

I work in a cafe in a shopping centre, I think I'm employed by the cafe owner but I get my wages paid thru the shopping centre. I've got an understanding with the owner that I can only work when the kids are in school as I earn minimum wage and childcare is £6.50 for 2 per hour round here an I can't pay it during the hols. So I feel the owner is being flexible with me allowing me to do this and I keep phoning him to say I'll be off again with the kids...................I've got no contract, sick or holiday pay is never mentioned, but I feel I'm in an awkward position and don't want to mention it/ Term time jpobs are like gold dust round here, believe me I've tried for years. Also my old mum needs me sometimes and I'm now worried I'll need time off for her too . All my siblings are 400 miles away and don't visit often. We desperately need the money from my job and I don't want to lose it but I feel I'm in a no win situation.

Any advice, anything would be helpful - thanks.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 11:59

Its the phrase "sort out alternative arrangements" when the kids need time off that really worries me, I've got no-one to ask, I can't ask friends, they work and have their own kids, family too old or lives away, dh works away and has no family here

Surely I can't be the only person who is in this way of life, surely not everyone has their mum or MIL up the road when the kids aren't well. I just can't think what to do and I'm so worried and stressed about it.

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 12:05

chelsy I understand, I am concerned about your rights but it's all very well me or anyone spouting the law at you but the important thing is to address the realities of your situation.

Need to run now, will have a think and come back later.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 12:07

thanks very much flowery, I appreciate your taking the time to help me

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 13:39

chelsy I think there are essentially two issues here, the problem of you being denied some of your employment rights, the impact that could have on your now and in the future, and the more immediate problem of what you do about the time you are having off.

Lets think about the childcare problem first. You are right of course, not everyone has their mum or whoever up the road, lots of people don't. But that's obviously not the employer's problem, so the issue is what other emergency arrangements could you make? You need to have an option in place, something that you could do in this situation. I understand you need the money from this job, but if you are having to take unpaid time off at the moment, it wouldn't really make much difference if you had to pay for this emergency childcare either. You need to have a proper think about what else you could do. Are there any neighbours, any students, does anyone know anyone who would be willing to look after them once in a while for some cash? What do the other mothers locally do? Try asking them at the school gates. There are such things as emergency nannies, which would obviously be expensive, but if it saves you taking unpaid leave and keeps you in a job, might be worth considering. Try putting a card in the local shop window or advertising on gumtree for ad hoc emergency help. Sometimes people like this advertise their services on gumtree as well.

As I say frequently, you need to work out what a positive realistic outcome would be to this and take some action towards getting there. You know that keeping taking unpaid leave like this isn't a realistic long term solution, it sounds as though your employer has actually been very understanding so far as it is. So you need to find yourself a better solution going forward.

I don't obviously know what the illnesses have been, but if it's been very frequent, is it worth a trip to the GP to have a chat about whether there could be anything physical or otherwise wrong on a longer-term basis that needs looking into?

I can't give you a magic solution to the childcare problem because there isn't one, but you need to find something. Try asking anyone locally you can think of, local NCT might know of someone that does this for example. I know where I live there is a directory of childcare on the district council website, try there maybe? Try asking on the CM/aupair/nannies topic on MN to see if anyone there knows of emergency childcare providers in your area.

In terms of your contract and the other issues around that, I find this strange. It doesn't sound as though your employer is a bit dodgy and deliberately trying to get away with doing anything nasty, he sounds helpful and flexible and as though he does value you. I think it's more likely he is ignorant of his responsibilities. If you are paid by the shopping centre I would expect them to know this and address it as well. It may be that they are technically your employer, not sure. Are you paid into your bank and do you get payslips or anything, or is it cash in hand? I would anticipate the shopping centre probably pays a few people so they should have something set up. Have you got nothing in writing at all, not a letter or anything, and who did you give your bank details to if you're paid into your bank?

I think the childcare is the important issue to sort out, as if you keep taking lots of time off the other stuff is likely to become irrelevant if your boss gets fed up with it. But I do think the employment stuff needs getting to the bottom of longer term. Have you spoken to anyone else who works there about their arrangements? It's not such an immediate concern now, but what if you (for example) got pregnant again, what about your maternity rights, that's important. There are other similarly crucial rights that could be an issue down the line.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 13:48

thanks flowery

TBH the emergency childcare is impossible, I've worked as a childminder in my area for 5 years and I know there's no one doing emergency care for sick children. Also I couldn't rely on a neighbour, the young ones are students and either studying away from home or at college here, there is honestly no one to ask, the rest of my neighbours are either young mums or elderly and I know they couldn't/wouldn't sit with someone elses sick child all day. Actually now I come to think of it I used to nanny for a family nearby and I have in the past provided emergency sick cover for them when my 2 were in school and I wasn't working, a few childminders at the school gates thought I was mad...................

I don't know what else to say, its just a hopeless situation

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 16:21

I think I'm all out of advice then I'm afraid. I do think you need to keep trying with the other options, doesn't have to be someone who is officially doing emergency care, or someone you know already, keep trying.

I do think it's worth having a little explore about your working situation as well, as a separate issue it doesn't sound right and it doesn't sound as though it's deliberately malicious, but you should explore it as your rights to holiday, sick pay, maternity rights and other protection might suddenly be very important at some point.

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chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 16:26

thanks, I'll bear that in mind, hopefully when things are back to normal I'll be able to bring it up................

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TwoToTango · 26/02/2008 17:03

flowery - re the compassionate leave - do you have to use up your annual leave first? for example - I have booked most of my annual leave for this year - if DS was ill and I wanted an emergency day off as unpaid - do they have to allow this or can they make me use up my annual leave first - hope that makes sense.

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 17:24

twototango no your annual leave is separate, you don't have to use it up first. Some people ask for the compassionate leave to be taken out of their AL so it's paid rather than unpaid, but if you need to take a day off unpaid you can.

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 19:11

chelsy just thinking about this some more. I know you're in a really difficult situation and it must be really hard with no family support nearby and DH away so much. But I do think you're sounding a weeny bit defeatist at the moment.

We all need to be there sometimes, just wallow a bit about all the things that are making life difficult. But try if you can to pick yourself up and do something positive to try and improve your situation. Just doing something more often than not makes you feel loads better. I've given you some options to explore about possibilities for childcare, it would only take a little time and effort to follow those up. Even if leads you get are limited to start with, if you are doing something, anything to try and make your situation better, it can work wonders in terms of making you feel more positive about things. I know I'm like that, if I'm fed up generally, I need to do something towards improving the situation.

You hopefully have a bit of time to sort something out before your boss gets hugely fed up with you, so there's no immediate panic. There is lots wrong with your situation but there are options for you to explore and you also seem to have an understanding (if illegal!) boss, which is a bonus.

Please don't be offended at what I'm saying. I have huge sympathy for your situation, but occasionally after venting some frustration we all need a bit of a push to get out there and do something to make it better, and it's really only you that can do that.

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grumpyfrumpy · 26/02/2008 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chelsygirl · 26/02/2008 20:27

thanks flowery, I do feel bogged down by it all just now, I just feel the wind has been taken out of me for so long I don't know where to start. But I'll keep reading your post and try to get myself moving somehow.

GF, I know what you mean about kids and sickness, on Monday morning I had ds dressed for school and as I was leading him in he started coughing and was grey, one of the other mums said you're not sending hi to school like that, he looks ghastly......today the doctors gave him antibiotics so I know he's been ill, I was trying to push him in on Monday and now I know I shouldn't have........

as it is I'm sending him tomorrow with calpol in his bag (I've also been putting it in his wee brothers water bottle..............) so I don't think I'm keeping them off for nothing!

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K999 · 26/02/2008 20:31

Flowery, if my children are sick and I get my childminder to look after them, can I still claim a day off for dependents??

My work would never know that I was sitting at home on MN would they???

Sorry for the hi-jack ladies.....

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flowerybeanbag · 26/02/2008 21:01

Naughty naughty Beryl!

Assuming work thought childminder wouldn't take them, then yes, but I have to suggest that maybe, just maybe, sitting at home on MN might not be worth losing a day's pay...

When do you start?

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K999 · 26/02/2008 22:10

Next Monday! Sorry have been away having huge PMT rant at DP......am really a horror at the moment.....

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TwoToTango · 27/02/2008 16:53

Thanks flowery.

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