Diasaplinary hearing due to being off work with sick dd, your opinions pls

[2littlemonkeys]

Sorry to post this here. But i need some help, or if any of you have been in a similar situation.
Bascily my dd has chicken pox and nursery refuse to allow her for 2 weeks from when the spots came out, so the monday of last week i had a days holiday as it was dd1 4th birthday so it didnt cause a problem, but wed i had no one to look after her, so i had already told work and asked if i could one of my 5 weeks holiday to be told no all the holidays have been taken for that day and i had to have it unpayed even thought i was off anyway, apparently its unfair on people who have already been refused???: (how would they no) anyway explained that i could not afford to be off unpayed and still pay nursery for 2 children, they wasnt intrested.
So my husband then tells me he is working in his home town for a few days the following week and he may have to take megan with him and mil can watch her, so told work this and said if all is well i will be in work monday etc but then my mum offered to have her but only until 2 each day and we both thought this would be better then sending her to mil 120 miles away.
So cut an already long story short i went to work yest after droping dd2 at my mums and after about 2 hours of being ignored by my manager, i was asked in to my back to work interview following my absence last week, went through it all filled in the forms etc then at the end told i would be invited to a disaplinary hearing due to the amount of times i have been off in the last 12 months which they tell me includeing last wed is 6, 1 of which was for me last august when i was suffering from panic attacks but the other 5 where for dd2, and then my manager wanted to no why we didnt send her to mil so i could work a afull day. i was fuming when i came out, for one last wed on of my other colleages got sent home because her ds?s had chicken pox and they told her she wasent aloud in the office in case she passed it round, so really if i had of been in they would of sent me home anyway, and they pushed to do it yest because if they had waited till next week they wouldnt of been able to do as my sick day last year was 24th feb.

So what do you think do i have a leg to stand as i was off careing for dd or do i just get a new job lol

thanks for reading sorry its long and i hope it makes sense

[hertsnessex]

i think they are being pricks. my companies old policy was 20days sick - then they look into it. 6 days is nothing. have you spoken to CAB? or does your company have an employee helpine? i think the are being sh¬tty for no reason.

[themoon66]

Where do you work? Do you have union representation?

[cupsoftea]

agree they're being awful for a reason - get some advice on this.

[thequietone]

My god, I'm certain you work for my old company!

[2littlemonkeys]

no union, no employee helpline nothing, in my back to work interview i even said to them you cant do it by law i am aloud time off to be with my sick dd there response was " we have been to see HR and its right, so i suggest you recheck your information" i could of punched her lol of course this was coming from to childless women!! x

[flowerybeanbag]

2littlemonkeys sorry to hear you've had a rough time.

Couple of points. You are entitled to emergency dependents' leave, have a read here. This is unpaid leave, the idea is you can take one or two days off in an emergency, which would include sorting out alternative childcare arrangements if your child is unwell.

Taking 5 days off is probably more than is reasonable, so it's really fair enough that they are planning to have a disciplinary hearing about it. Whether you can afford unpaid time off or not isn't really their concern unfortunately.

Having said all that, it seems a bit bizarre not to allow you to take it out of your holiday entitlement if they were prepared to allow you to take it unpaid. I would have thought either you can't take time off or you can and if it's fine for you not to be there, they've got enough cover or whatever, what difference does it make allowing you to take it out of your own holiday entitlement. Obviously I don't know how holiday works where you are but that's my initial thought about it.

When you told work you would be in on Monday did they say that was fine? And when you decided you couldn't go in on Monday did you phone and what did they say then? Or did you just not turn up until yesterday? You can see the difference I expect.

If you get a disciplinary hearing I think you could argue that they should be a bit more reasonable because if they agreed to you having unpaid leave they were obviously fine with you not being at work therefore there should be no reason you couldn't take it out of your holiday entitlement. That's not your right to do that, but I think it's certainly something you could bring up. If it was agreed that it was fine for you not to come in until yesterday, again it would be reasonable for you to say it's not fair for them to change their mind and discipline you for it. But obviously if you didn't stay in touch and didn't get the ok not to come in until yesterday, it's absolutely fair enough for them to discipline you.

Doesn't mean you need to look for a new job though necessarily!

[Fillyjonk]

you need to speak to a union imo

if you are not a union member, you really need to be if you are working for a company that is this ar$ey about a bit of leave to care for a sick child.

IIRC you are entitled to a reasonable amount of (unpaid) time off for family emergencies, and this does include disruption of care arrangements for kids.

[morningpaper]

Your OP is confusing.

Are you saying that you refused to take the time off unpaid?

You are entitled to take it off unpaid (AFAIK) in emergencies, but you can't demand that it is paid leave.

[morningpaper]

I think it IS reasonable for them not to grant you PAID leave (i.e. holiday entitlement) because most companies don't allow people to take holiday entitlement with no warning - so it would be unfair if people with children were allowed this privilige and people without children were not.

[nailpolish]

i agree with what morningpaper said,

unpaid is what you should have taken. plus, dont most people ahve a back to work interview after such a lengthy time off??

[flowerybeanbag]

I think whether all that unpaid leave was actually agreed to is crucial, that's not clear from the OP.

[2littlemonkeys]

i keep in touch with them the whole time, i made arrangements for my mum to have dd, i only work mon and wed, and i was there both days until 2 oclock which was only the time my mum could have her till, so in all i was off one day which i would of been sent home for anyway as was a collage in the same situation as me WORK SENT HER HOME saying she was not aloud in the office due to her ds havin chicken pox, and the 6 times i have been off our over a period of 12 months x

[Fillyjonk]

people with kids do have some legal rights that people w/o kids do though.

They are ENTITED to refuse to let the op have paid leave, and she has no right to demand it. its just odd, imo because then she will have the right to take holiday at a later date-surely its easier for them to give her some of her (limited) paid leave?

[morningpaper]

If you took it as unpaid, then that is fair enough.

TBH I also work part-time and if I have to miss hours, then I make them up at other times during the same week. Could you offer to do this?

[flowerybeanbag]

So you were off last Wednesday, you were in on Monday until 2, which they were fine with, and then were in yesterday until 2? So actually you had one day off not 5, plus however many hours you would normally work after 2, is that right?

In which case that doesn't seem reasonable. It is reasonable for the time you've had off to be unpaid, but I don't think that's excessive.

[doggiesayswoof]

So they did allow you to take the day as unpaid leave but you couldn't afford it? Unfortunately as flowery says an employer will not see this as their problem.

I do agree with flowery though - if they had been happy for you to take it as unpaid leave I don't see why you couldn't have taken it from your holiday entitlement. Seems unreasonable on their part.

I'm not totally clear on your OP - am I right in thinking that you weren't in last Wednesday but you hadn't agreed this with work? i.e. were they expecting you to turn up last Wed?

[Fillyjonk]

aaargh, typing 1 handed

Should have been, people with kids do have some legal rights that people w/o kids DON'T though.

OP are you saying you did not actually take a day off but went home early on 2 occasions?

Now I am coming at this with experience of defending employees, not employers.

I'd say, if you told them that you needed to leave work early, and did not even take a full day off, to discipline you for this is just odd, but also wrong. you have a statutory right to time off to cope with emergencies involving dependents and their care.

If I am correct with the amount of time taken (and AM confused) I'd say a. get union representation in the hearing with you (you can join now) and b. get everything in writing. And if you need to take time off again, make the request in writing.

let me find a link...

[2littlemonkeys]

Thats right flowerybb, i never get paied for time off sick me or my dd's thats always been the case, i thought they might of reviewed my situation and let me use the holidays as i would be off anyway iyswim.
morningpaper- i have offered to make up my hours and the response i got was ' we will have to check with higher management as we may not need you' (i work in a call center) x

[morningpaper]

2littlemonkeys: I think that it SOUNDS as though you are being a bit arsey and saying "I can't afford to take this as unpaid, I'm DEMANDING it is paid annual leave" in which case, you are being unreasonable and I think the disciplinary is right.

But if you are feeling unhappy with your employers for this and other reasons, then perhaps you need to start looking for another job.

[doggiesayswoof]

I think the issue here is the paid/unpaid thing

The OP said that they did offer the time off unpaid, but OP tried to explain that she couldn't afford not to be paid.

[Fillyjonk]

now i am completely confused now with wednesday business

though i don't think 1 day plus 2 half days this is actually an unreasonable amount of time to take anyway (unpaid). the op's child couldn't go to nursery, there was no one else to look after her (except when there was, and there the OP used alternative care)

I will say that dp has taken more time than this off to care for our kids in similar emergencies, as have I.

ok have found link

tiger website

[flowerybeanbag]

Well I would say it would be reasonable for them to allow you to take the time out of your holiday entitlement, that would certainly be my advice to a manager, and if you have offered to make the time up elsewhere as well, a disciplinary seems a bit harsh.

[doggiesayswoof]

argh x-posting all over the place

connection too slow...

[Fillyjonk]

hang on are you saying YOU don't get sick pay?

you are entitled to sick pay once you've been off (iirc) 4 days, this is the legal minimum.

[2littlemonkeys]

Ok, sorry if i am confusing you all lol i no your trying to help me.

I work mon and wed.
Last week i was off monday (AL)
Wed i had off unpaied but agreed with work.

This monday i worked 8.30 till 2 (normally 5.15)
and yest i wroked 8.30 till 2 (normally 5.15)
as my mum could only have her till then.

The other time off is over a 12 month period.

let me no if i have missed anything lol x