How to deal with someone who has criticized me in past - now I have to be professional with him?

[GladitsnotJustMe]

I apologies in advance that this is long - but it's important to me to get the whole story down. It's an issue that has plagued me my whole career and I would really appreciate your thoughts on it.

All my life I have wanted to work in a particular, specialized, field. To this end, after my degree I volunteered for a charity working in this field for an intensive placement over the course of 4-5 months.

I worked for the charity full-time as a volunteer, and gained lots of experience. But, as a 21 year old living in a new town away from home, I also took advantage of the freedom and made lots of friends and had a bloody good time. I went out every night, but worked hard during the day.

Things started to become difficult when one of the guys working with the charity started to expect the volunteers to carry out work that was not part of their remit, and was in fact work that he was paying his own son to do. The work was akin to touting / canvassing the general public in the street. It came to a head one day when this guy told myself and the other volunteers to get out on the street, and while we were there, the son (who was employed to do this job) took advantage and buggered off on a jolly with his mates.

The guy came and verbally abused myself and the volunteers for not trying hard enough - literally swearing at us in the street in front of customers, and I left shortly afterwards. I must say I never complained about his behaviour (weak young thing that I was), but I simply came to the end of my time there and left on good terms.

During my time with the charity, the head of the organization visited us on several occasions. I was in awe of this man at first, believing he was the gateway to me finding a career in this subject in the future. I'll call him Mr X for ease of writing.

A couple of things struck me though. The first thing was that we accepted several volunteers who were young and inexperienced - they were collecting important scientific data that would be relied upon in reports etc, and I often felt they were inadequately trained and immature. One specific occasion, I remember a 15 year old girl from abroad came to work with us having already spent several weeks 'Living' alone with Mr X at his headquarters. A 15 year old girl is a child, and I felt that this was totally inappropriate (Mr X was in his 50s, unmarried, so they definitely were alone).

Secondly, myself and the volunteers rented a caravan during our time volunteering. It was an ancient old static caravan, so you can imagine there wasn't much space. Two tiny twin rooms, and one volunteer on a pull out bed in the living room. Tiny shared bathroom. On several occasions Mr X visited the project with another of his (male) staff, and insisted on staying in the caravan with us volunteers. We were all female, and at 21 I was by far the oldest. So on these occasions, I simply refused to stay in the caravan, 'giving up my space' for the men while staying out at one of my friend's houses. Admittedly, it probably looked bad me arriving back at the caravan in last night's 'going out clothes' to get changed to go to work - but go to work I did, and I worked hard.

i just felt that the head of an organization should not need, or indeed want, to stay in a tiny caravan with 3 young women (one of whom was 15 years old). There were plenty of hotels in the town. But again, I never said anything, although I may have made my disapproval clear with my refusal to stay there with them.

A few months later, I applied for a further degree, and called Mr X up to ask whether he would act as a reference for me, since the degree, and my career ambitions related to the experience I'd had working for him. He agreed and said he'd be happy to.

I very nearly didn't get on the degree course as I was informed I'd had a 'bad reference'. Luckily, I managed to find some other referees, got glowing references, and got on the course. But eventually, I was given copies of the references, and it turns out the bad one was from Mr X. He wrote that I was "Lazy, unwilling to apply herself, and more interested in having a good time in the local town than participating in research" and that he didn't think the degree course was appropriate, or that I fully understood what the course entailed.

I was completely and utterly devastated. None of that was true, I worked bloody hard for him, in the face of some pretty shitty treatment. Everyone knows that if you don't like someone you can either refuse to give them a reference, or write it in a neutral way that implies you don't think much of the person without actually saying nasty things.

I went on to some great achievements in my career, but I moved away from that particular subject, in no small part due to the crushing of my self confidence from this man. I have never forgotten it, and it still hurts me to this day. I lived in dread of ever coming face to face with him.

And then last week, I was offered a new position, finally bringing me back to my much loved field of work, and something I have longed for.

My new job will almost certainly bring me into contact with this man. It's a small field, and everyone knows each other. I'm worried that people will ask me about my experiences with Mr Xs charity, which they almost certainly will, and will introduce me to him expecting me to be friendly. We will attend meetings with Mr X, and probably have regular contact.

I have dreamed of the day I would finally tell him what I thought of him - but in reality I really shouldn't do that, should I? I dread him recognizing my name and asking whether I'd volunteered for him in the past - what the hell should I say?

I also have some doubts about the quality of his reports, based on my first-hand experience of the quality of his volunteers. But I don't want to allow my personal experience to cloud my professional judgement on this.

I'd love to shoot him down in flames and tell him how utterly unprofessionally he behaved, and how dare he try and jeopardize my career like that. But I know I can't.

What Would you wise MNers do?

[GladitsnotJustMe]

God it's an essay - sorry, but thank you if you get to the end!

[SomewhereBeyondTheSea]

He sounds like an absolute arsehole but given that you have done so well for yourself I think the best thing is to smile gracefully and avoid him as much as possible.
And keep an ear out for any tales of inappropriate behaviour with young female volunteers, he does sound dodgy in that regard.

[Technical]

So, will you be senior to Mr X now?

Have I understood correctly? You will be working in the same "industry" and come in to contact but not working together or for the same organisation?

[TheXxed]

Is there an ombudsman that deals with charities these are serious allegations and they need to be investigated.

Often these charities/NGOs are given funding on the basis that they will carry out their research using a set of ethical guidelines if they are in breach of said guidelines that could be viewed as misappropriation of funds.

[GladitsnotJustMe]

Thank you for getting through my essay!

You're technical we will be working in the same industry and come into contact, but not the same organisation. My organisation might be in a position to make decisions on funding for his charity though, and I will be a key part of those decisions.

Not sure if there's any control over the charity's actions - I agree that his behaviour was inappropriate, and now that I'm older and wiser I would have complained about his actions regarding the young volunteers - but at the time, I didn't and it's a long time ago now.

I will, however, be keeping a close eye on his volunteer practises

[GladitsnotJustMe]

I think the two things that worry me are:

Coming into contact with him, and my new boss going "Oh Glad volunteered for you, do you know her".... awkward. I very much doubt he would remember me, it was around 15 years ago, but I do have a distinctive name.

The other thing is I have such a low opinion of him that I'll find it difficult to talk about him in a professional context without spilling my guts and telling my boss / colleagues all about him. I don't want to sound unprofessional - and his words in my reference still hurt and I don't really want to repeat them, so how can I make my opinion clear while remaining professional?

I just can't believe that a man in a position of power would go to the effort of writing such awful things about a volunteer for her degree application - if my university had taken his reference seriously, I could have been refused entry and my whole career would have been affected by that.

I take some small comfort in the knowledge that some of his peers were aware of the reference (my course supervisors) and must therefore thing he was being a total dick, regardless of whether his comments were true or not.

[Technical]

I think as part of my settling in/getting to know you process I would be arranging to meet some of his current volunteers and finding out what their living arrangements are and how they feel they are treated by him. Presumably, if your organisation was aware volunteers were being mistreated it would find it difficult to support his charity? Wouldn't hurt him to know that and that you remember him, even if he doesn't remember you.

Outwardly, like you say, you have to be professional and take the way he behaves in meetings etc at face value.

[PurplePidjin]

I have no direct experience but surely if he was in his 50s then he'll be close to retirement by now? So this may not be as long a term issue as you fear

[Technical]

Are you still in touch with any of the other volunteers from that time?

[GladitsnotJustMe]

I forgot to add that the reference said "I don't know Glad very well, but the guy she worked with said XYZ about her" - so he was claiming to be repeating someone else's opinion (which is also pretty shit practise for a reference).

That guy was sweary man who treated the volunteers like shit. I did take it up with him, as I knew him better. He denied all knowledge and tried to slime his way out of it, but did say "I must admit, I'm surprised you're doing that degree, I didn't think you were that interested".. Thanks.

I'm fairly sure I'll come into contact with that guy soon as well. I think he would remember me. Not sure how to react to him either.

[GladitsnotJustMe]

Not in touch with any other volunteers no, but I may come into contact with others who have volunteered since me, so I could make some enquiries.

His age was a guess, but as he's the founder of the charity, I don't think he'll be going anywhere anytime soon.

I should add that both Mr X and Sweary guy have now both taken up relationships with ... you guessed it, former young volunteers.

I did wonder whether the fact that I was slightly older (ancient at 21!) and unwilling to fall at their feet had something to do with their opinion of me.

[GladitsnotJustMe]

This incident crushed my self confidence, so I know Ive probably built it up in my mind to be something bigger than it was.

But I can never get past that with Mr X

[GladitsnotJustMe]

Presumably, if your organisation was aware volunteers were being mistreated it would find it difficult to support his charity? Wouldn't hurt him to know that and that you remember him, even if he doesn't remember you. - I could make enquiries about their volunteer policy and living arrangements, that might put the wind up him as it's something that would not normally be asked in the context of my work.

Fucker, how dare he make me feel like that.

[Technical]

TBH, hard as it will be I think you need to let the reference thing go. Things worked out well for you despite his efforts, enjoy that and concentrate your efforts on making sure his current volunteers are treated properly.

[Guineapigfriend]

I agree, forget the reference thing, although the fact he gave you a bad reference suggests that he wanted to put you in your place for not towing the line.
Focus instead on the facts. You have inside knowledge about inappropriate behaviour with young women, poor work practices, unscientific data collection, mistreatment of young volunteers including verbal abuse.
Why should you keep quiet about that? Presumably if they are so shit, others in the industry will have an idea about what's going on.
Your focus should should be on crushing bad practice. Forget about the twat and his shouty friend.
When you meet them feel powerful, be polite but do not engage with them on a personal level. You can come out of this flying high.

[GladitsnotJustMe]

Thanks everyone for your responses - really good to know that it's not just me being over sensitive.

I think if I hold a grudge I will appear unprofessional, so I will let it pass. I will be scrutinizing their data and asking questions about their volunteer policy if it ever becomes relevant.

When I meet Mr X or Shouty man in the future, I will smile sweetly, tell them I volunteered for them once, long ago, and watch their little minds whirring away to work out who I am.

Question is - how should I approach this with my new boss? I don't know him very well but he seems v nice and down to earth. Should I let him know that I'm not too keen on Mr X, or should I not mention it?

If a situation arises where I'm at a meeting with Mr X and my past volunteering is brought up, my new boss might find my reaction weird if he doesn't know the back story. But I don't want to seem petty by going into great detail with him.

I might flag up my concerns about the quality of the data with him though, as that is quite relevant.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

I don't know if this is relevant but your quandary reminds me of advice a friend gave me once (after I'd put my foot right in it). Before you volunteer anything about your opinion/prior knowledge/factual experience of those 2 men, 'know your audience'. Try and find out your boss' view/opinion/experience of those 2 men should they come up in conversation or work issues. Be vague/non committal about your own knowledge/opinion/experience of those 2 men until you know how they are viewed/perceived by those in your new organisation. You never know how well people know each other and until you know for certain your boss has no 'connections' friendly or otherwise to those 2 men, keep your powder dry!

I blurted out all about how much of an arsehole my ex boss was to someone who knew him and was friends with him. It did me no harm overall as I've not gone backwards but in your shoes you will be working with someone who could potentially have some connection and you will have an ongoing relationship with them.

In terms of how you do your job knowing what you do, you do your job and make decisions based upon your knowledge & professional experience. If that means scrutinising how they treat volunteers & address their accommodation needs, then you do that. You don't need to explain yourself beyond ensuring ethical and safeguarding standards are maintained/followed strictly (which is I'm guessing part of your job's remit?).

[GladitsnotJustMe]

Thank you Tension good advice indeed. I'll keep my mouth shut until I've ascertained my new boss' opinion of these people and their charity.

I think I'm just more concerned about how I'll conduct myself when I'm finally faced with this man after all these years. I have imagined the scenario in my head many times where I finally get a chance to flame him, but I know that will never happen.

What I actually think will happen is that I will get incredibly nervous around him, and panic that he will recognize me. But in fact, he's the one who should be ashamed of his behaviour, not me.

I think I'll just be cold and professional around him, and keep it to myself.

I'm not directly responsible for the charity's standards, no. But my organization will be in a position to grant fund the charity, as well as relying on data they provide. So i'll be in a position to make recommendations, and scrutinize their work. But if there is no information on how they treat their volunteers, then I will be none the wiser unless I specifically ask. Something I might pick up on is the reliability of their data based on how they train and supervise their volunteers. I'm just not prepared to be making decisions based on data collected by a bunch of 15 year old children, with a poor command of the English language, and a hero worship attitude to Mr X.

Incidentally, Sweary guy fell out with Mr X a few years ago and parted company, setting up his own separate charity. So I'm sure there's plenty of bad feeling there already.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Look Glad. You will be in a position of power and could crush him if you started looking into safeguarding with his volunteers. Smile sweetly, and just bear it in mind.

You done well gal. Keep an eye on this toad and one day you might well have your revenge. X

[GladitsnotJustMe]

So I'll play the long game, quietly observing this toad and knowing that he'll never, ever get one over on me again. Always keeping an eye out for an opportunity to pick him up on his shitty behaviour.

Yes, that does sound good.

Thanks everyone, I feel better already

[EBearhug]

Yes, you do have to be professional, and I think given what an arsehole he's shown himself to be in the past, you have to be even more professional and not put a foot wrong, which includes not saying anything which could count as spreading gossip or being biased against him.

He may not remember you, but you can't know that for sure, and in any case, you remember him and know his character. Be professional, but I wouldn't be able to trust him any more than the role required. I think the advice about asking existing volunteers how they're finding things is good.

[BecauseIsaidS0]

Ugh, what a difficult situation. I would say bite your tongue, be super professional, but watch out for anything dodgy. If you talk about your past experience with him, it could be perceived as gossip, but if you find that he is still NOW doing such dodgy things (and come on, overnight stays with female underage employees is very dodgy) you should point it out and maybe he will finally get his hand slapped.

[cat88]

I agree with tension - wait and see what your boss's approach to this man is.

But you can start now building up an evidence base, asking the questions of volunteers and i think you should take this seriously.

If your organisation give grant funding and all this blows up later about inappropriate practices, you need to know what your answer would be in that situation. Would either Mr X or shouty man try to claim you knew about their practices because you volunteered with them? - I would make sure you have that situation covered. I know it was a long time ago. But you need to check out whether it is still ongoing.

[GladitsnotJustMe]

I hope people don't mind me resurrecting this old thread.

I'm now a couple of months into my new job, and some of the scenarios that I predicted regarding coming into contact with these people have come true.

I have mentioned to my new boss that I know these people, and while I haven't explicitly said anything bad to him, I think it's clear from my tone and in depth questioning about their work that I don't think much of them. My boss has picked up on it, and I think I need to back off a bit in case he thinks I'm being too negative.

I did slip up recently though. Another colleague heard me mention Mr X and said - totally unprompted by me - that she was "uncomfortable with the way Mr X surrounds himself with young women all the time". I then told her of my experience with the 15 year old staying with him, and how I refused to share a caravan with him. I now realise that I was indulging in gossip, and I ought to be careful not to do that again, but it was so tempting given that she raised the issue. My Boss wasn't around.

I was recently in a position to evaluate a contract bid, with each of the two men - Mr X and Sweary man - up against each other. Mr X's bid was successful, and it involves relying on 'trained volunteers' to do much of the work, although he now has an experienced woman in charge of the volunteers (which I hope might mean slightly better standards and treatment). I did raise the issue of training with my boss, and told him that in my experience (which was admittedly a long time ago) the used underage inexperienced volunteers. He raised an eyebrow at this and suggested we look into it. I have suggested that as a government organisation, we have some responsibility to ensure that any contractor working for us adheres to certain standards, and as such I think I'm justified in asking to see the charity's volunteer policy. OK, it's just blurb on a piece of paper, but it shows I'm taking it seriously and it covers me if any questions are raised in the future.

I get the impression that Mr X has had his own way for so long when working with our organization that he just expects things to stay the same. My boss hasn't been in his job long, but his predecessor used to idolize Mr X and let him take liberties. My boss is very laid back and I think just doesn't want to create a stir, so he's just letting things continue as they are.

An example of this is coming up next week. Mr X has presumed access to a facility run by my organization, (prior to being awarded the contract which I think puts us on shaky ground), and has invited himself to use this facility for the next 2 weeks. I immediately questioned why, in what capacity, what contract, who is paying him to do this work? My Boss said it was a 'goodwill thing' and he's not really sure why Mr X gets to use our stuff, but he just does... then said "Is this a problem?". Like I said, he's picking up on my negative vibe and I immediately backed down and said that I was just trying to work out who is doing what and how things work.

In making the arrangements for next week, my boss suggested that he, another member of staff (let's call him John) and myself could also go along. Now, call me paranoid, but in replying to my Boss's emails, Mr X has repeatedly written "Yes of course you and John can come".. and left me out of the email chain on several occasions. My DH said I was being paranoid and it was an easy mistake to make. However, yesterday's final arrangements (which he again sent to my boss, leaving me out of the chain) said "there will be room for you and John and myself and my volunteers".... Once more, my boss replied "Me, John and Glad will be coming". Like I said, I have a distinctive name and I'm starting to wonder....

So that brings me to next week. I'm due to spend the week out working with him (despite him trying to leave me out). I'm very anxious, partly because I want to prove myself to my new boss and to Mr X, and partly because I've harboured such a hatred for this man for the last 15 years and I'm finally going to come face-to-face with him.

I can take some small comfort in the knowledge that even if Mr X does remember writing that shitty reference for me, he would be totally unaware that I had seen it, since it's not normal practice to see your references. So I think I just need to forget that ever happened.

However, the fact that I volunteered for him years ago is bound to come up... what the hell do I say?

Please help me steel myself into a cool, strong woman by Monday!

[pluCaChange]

I remember your thread from the first time round!

What is "John" like? Is he approachable, or will you have to conceal the depth of your suspicion of Mr X? If John is idealistic about the job and the government organisation's remit to ensure best practice, then you can make a plan of action together.

As for Mr X, if he makes overtures to you, practice the waiting silence, thus: "Oh, hi, Glad, how are you? long time, no see, eh? What a coincidence, us working together again! "Yes..." And always have a backup task to be doing, so you can excuse yourself gracefully and legitimately if you need to. However, too much excusing yourself will lead him to think you are a pushover and he has no confrontation to fear!

Is that a good start?