Is this how it should be? MN's advice needed please.

[wishfulthinking]

I'll try and make it brief - was made redundant last August from a job I really, really enjoyed. Not a great salary and with no career propects but the people were terrific and it suited me down to the ground. Was offered another job immediately via a friend of a friend within a travel agency (previous job was in admin/manufacturing). My instinct after my friendly chat/interview told me that it wasn't a good thing but I was tempted by the slightly improved salary and not having the trauma of creating a new cv (haven't done one for 7 years), going to interviews etc.
Anyway, it's awful, terrible and I hate it. My boss (female) is a tyrant and I am utterly intimidated by her. She only has to call my name and I feel my tummy knot up and I feel sick. At the end of Feb I was so upset I walked out of the office in tears only to return because I didn't want to appear weak. There are times when she is a kind and 'normal' boss but in the majority she's nuts! None of the staff have contracts of employment, there are no breaks or lunch breaks; holidays are permitted only when it convenient for her. We moved house on the 17 March and I haven't been able to take any holiday days due to there being no one to cover for me. I have now decided to leave and go temping for the sake of my health (yet another day of being sick and the 'other' due to nerves) and also my home life as all I seem to do is worry about what the next day will bring. Can anyone tell me the following please?

1. Do I have to give notice as I don't have a contract
   
2. I have 4 weeks and three days holiday due to me - am I entitled to get that in my final salary?
   
3. When I write my letter of resignation I intend to explain (sensibly) why I am leaving but do I also mention that I am expecting the above in holiday pay mentioned in point 2.
   The only reason I am able to write this thread now is because she is away for a week.
   Another example of her unreasonable behaviour: In the process of moving and all that that entails, I was told to curtail my private calls (to my mobile) as it would set a bad example.....how are you supposed to sell/move house but not be allowed time off including no lunch hour .
   All thoughts would be greatly received.

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Crikey wishful - I'm not surprised you're leaving. What a cow.

I'm not sure of any specifics really but thought \link{http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/work_time_regs/wtr0.htm\this link} might be useful. At least you can quote your entitlements to her in the letter. I don't see how she can hold you to giving notice if you don't have a contract - but not having a contract doesn't entitle her to withold your rights holidays and breaks.

The DTI stuff may be worth passing on to your fellow workers too as she shouldn't be able to deprive them of lunch breaks

Hope you find some happiness in your new job.

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

The number for ACAS is on the 'useful numbers' page on that site. They should be able to help you with some definite answers.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

tbh I'd talk to someone who knows about this stuff - like CAB - before you resign (if you can bear to wait). The main reason I say that is the lack of contract - I am not sure where that leaves you in terms of trying to enforce your entitlement to holiday pay. Also if there are grounds for enforcing your entitlement to holiday pay, does that mean there would also be grounds for assuming you have to work a notice period? Do you see what I mean?

[edam]

The links will tell you that she's been breaking the law. Every employee has certain basic rights that she's been denying you. So you have the whip hand.

Do talk to CAB and look up the links. Btw, you aren't in a union are you? If you are, you can get advice and representation from them. If not, may be worth thinking about for your next job. They really can be a big help when you are dealing with an unreasonable employer.

[wishfulthinking]

Thanks for the info. I think I know what you mean hat women. I am so desperate to leave I could almost walk away from the holiday pay issue. Working here in this short space of time has knocked virtually every ounce of confidence I had (and there wasn't that much to begin with). Thats why I I'm looking at going down the temping route with something more permanent coming from there as it has happened before. She has a wonderful knack of making me feel thick and useless - she has a go at everyone at some point or other but I take it very much to heart...a trait which I could really do without in the workplace.

[wishfulthinking]

A union edam??????? You must be joking. This is the lady who rules the roost - she says jump and we say how high? I could go on and on about things she has said and done but it's hard to write in words and get across how bad it/she really is. I think I will have to put it down as all part of the learning curve and move on.

[hunkermunkfish]

WT, I had a boss like this - she was truly evil personified. Worked for a charity too...nothing charitable about that malevolent old witch though (God this is cathartic!).

Anyway, I had NO confidence whatsoever until I did jury service and had a four-week long murder trial. The other jurors chose me as foreman and praised my leadership skills - each one thanked me for chairing the deliberations (which took three days) and I got my confidence back. I handed in my notice shortly after I returned to work (she'd not wanted me to do jury service as she felt it showed a lack of commitment to my job - wtf?!) - I had no job to go to, but like you, I was going to temp. Luckily, I got my current job which is fantastic and I started it a week or so after I left the job with the evil boss.

You do not have to put up with this kind of treatment, you are better than this and you will be MUCHhappier in another job. Temp for a bit, get a feel for how normal employers behave - and enjoy your life again. I was jumpy, felt sick all the time and had NO confidence when I was working from the bitch queen from hell - I'd go home from work on a Friday night and worry all weekend about something I'd forgotten to do that she'd pick me up on. Wouldn't have been quite so bad if she hadn't been utterly incompetent herself... Sorry, get me on this subject and it all just floods out!

Good luck with it. If they're paying you, you do have a contract - it doesn't have to be written down. And enjoy your next job!

[wishfulthinking]

Thanks for that HM. I arrived one day at my childminder in floods of tears after one particular day of hell....I am incapable of rationalising how somebody can behave in such a terrible way to another human being. The second time I went to my parents - my dad told me not to bother going back but its not as easy as that. Sadly, like most people, we both have to work to maintain our lifestyle, which is very, very simple and not at all frivolous unlike my Stalin-like boss.
I have had good experiences when temping before - it's just the salary issue i.e. basically minimum wage. However, the prospect of a drop in salary is nothing compared to staying put.

[wishfulthinking]

PS You're right about it being cathartic letting it all out like this!!!!!!

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

do you know what - you make me wonder if you have a case for constructive dismissal. I am sure CAB wuold advise you. Take a day off (sick if needs be) and get yourself down there asap.

[wishfulthinking]

HM - if the circumstances were different i.e. my SIL's son and 'her' son go to the same school plus after school things; my mum gives him piano lessons blah, blah, blah, I would do. It does help to know that its not me as my brother, dh, SIL, mum and dad and co-workers etc all think the same - nasty, nasty women.

[wishfulthinking]

I drafted my letter of resignation last night and I have an interivew lined up for next week; it's only temporary but it'll get me out of here. In my letter, I have put that I will give a week's notice (only out of courtesy) but my colleague said that she would probably 'ball' me out there and then.....which only confirms why I'm leaving! Could someone just confirm if I should mention what I will be expecting in terms of holiday pay due etc? Thanks

[Wembley]

Legally you have a to have a break every 4 hours so she is wrong. You poor thing. I would go and speak to the CAB and find out what you can do! Good luck BTW how do your colleagues feel? Would you all be prepared to do something together? Is there anyone higher you can go to? You are being treated sooooooo badly sorry if this has already been said but DS has just woken up!

[Piccalilli]

You should say that you're expecting to be paid holiday pay with your final pay cheque - easier to argue about it before you leave than once you've gone. You are legally entitled to be paid accrued holiday contract or no contract. You can't claim constructive dismissal because you haven't been there a year yet - if you could bear to stick it out til you have been there a year you'd be in a better position legally but you might be better just cutting your losses and getting out of there.

You need to give a week's notice.

If she tries to get away without paying holiday pay you can point out that she is breaching emplyment legislation in at least the following ways:

• failure to give you a written statement of terms and conditions
  
• failure to comply with the Working Time Regulations in respect of rest breaks and holiday

[wishfulthinking]

Wembley - yes, we are all in the same boat but I guess they're just stronger/more able than I am. As I've only been there since last August I'm just wanting to get out rather than fight her - she truly is a most appalling boss and I will never forgive her (not that she would care) for knocking such confidence from me. Good riddance to bad (and I mean bad) rubbish)!!!!

[Tortington]

dont let the company get away with it - dont let them do it to someone else - go to a solicitor.

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Wishful - I agree. You should tell her that you expect to be paid for your holidays; that you know this is your entitlement under employment law.

In the meantime go to the CAB for advice or ring ACAS. If she fails to pay up then write and tell her you will be taking it further and that the rest of her dodgy employment practices will be brought into question.

Also - the rest of the employees should join a union - I don't think she can stop them. It really gets my goat when people think they can rise rough-shod over their employees. Good luck with you interview. Let us know how you get on.

[wishfulthinking]

I am in agreement with what you are saying custardo but (as usual) there are 'other' issues to take into consideration (mentioned earlier). And to be honest, I just don't have the fight in me to go ahead although that is a feeble excuse. I feel quit jubilant in knowing that within the next couple of weeks I won't be here

[clerkKent]

wishfulthinking - I am a strong advocate for getting out of a situation where you are being bullied as fast as you possibly can. It is not worth going to CAB, ACAS etc, because although you may lose out financially you will get peace of mind more quickly and can put it all behind you.

If you only joined last August, you have done well to accrue 23 days holiday! You should certainly ask/expect to be paid, but in practical terms if she refuses I would recommend you just forget it and out it down to experience.

Of course if everyone did that, we would have no employment rights...

[wishfulthinking]

CK - the three of the 23 days were taken over from last year's accrual due to not being able to take them in time! The other 20 are the statutory ones, which I assume/ed everyone was entitled to. Am I wrong to expect this. I should also mention that my boss keeps hold of our wage slips and it's only when we ask for them that she (eventually) hands them over; as a result of getting Feb & March's only a week ago I noticed that I haven't been paid for a Sunday that I worked at the end of Jan!!! I could go on.....!

[FrayedKnot]

Sorry to hear what a horrible time you are having WT.

Just wondering, when you say 20 days, are you meaning for this year (i.e. since Jnauary) because I think you will only be entitled to them as they accrue throughout the year e.g. if you have worked for 6 months of the year you are entitled to 10 days.

Sorry if I have misunderstood, it was just when you mentioned carry over from last year.

I think, if it was me, given the length of time you have been there etc, I would just cut my losses and move on to better and brighter things, which I'm sure are just around the corner.

Oh and plan to get even with her some otehr time

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

wishful - if you only work part of the year then you'll only be entitled to the holidays pro-rata.

at her witholding your wage slips. Who does she think she is? I couldn't let this go - like a dog with a bone though me - I'd have to find a way to drop her right in it after I'd left.

[edam]

Do look up the links in order to work out what she should be paying you in your final wage packet. I'm not suggesting staying put and arguing about your entitlements, I'm suggesting resigning but sorting out what she owes you. I do think you would have a good case for constructive dismissal, but it is a big hassle to take a case and you may not think it is worth the aggravation. Just check out your rights so you can get all the money you are owed.

[wishfulthinking]

My query over the holiday pay due is: if, from Jan this year upto now-ish I had decided to take the 20 days, would she be requesting monies back from me for taking too many days? I know this keeps on dragging on but it really is helping me keep strong.....thanks all MN's!

[edam]

Yes, if you had used up all your annual entitlement but left half way through the year, pay for those 'excess' days would be deducted from your final salary.