Mum is becoming vulnerable to phone callers

[NotHilda]

My MIL is a tough old lady whose memory is gradually going downhill.

It seems to be affecting how she handles thing, too. Recently we found she had a packet from a boiler insurance company, saying that she had taken out a policy with them, and asking her to confirm the direct debit. It all looked above board, but she already has a boiler insurance policy, and doesn't remember getting any phone call or giving them her bank details, which they have.

It's not at all unusual for her to forget a phone call (hers or others) but it's unusual for her just to say yes to something she's offered on the phone, particularly as she's had a boiler policy for years and uses it. (But of course she thinks of it as "the gas board".)

There are insurance companies out there which are downright scammers, it's been in the news. I haven't heard any bad reports about this one (Boiler Cover UK) so it's just as likely that a nice-sounding agent phoned her and she just went for it.

I'm becoming really worried about what will happen if she gets hit by a real scammer, a courier fraudster or something like that. A couple of years ago she would have told anyone she didn't like the sound of to get lost, but these people are said to be really plausible, and of course you can't phone anyone for advice as they tie up the phone line.

I've really poured two related subjects into one posting here. Has anyone got any experience or advice on this kind of thing? You can't block scam calls of course as they keep changing the numbers

Thanks

[Needmoresleep]

I've been there and got the T Shirt! I found no fewer than 15 sets of 'protection' on my mum's Sky box alone. It then broke down and Sky replaced it for free.

Issues include:

1. How did they get her number? Once she has bought something will this number be resold to other more dodgy people. It can escalate fast.
   

1. Will she remember she has the cover? Or if her boiler goes will she simply phone a plumber she knows. What service levels do they provide. British Gas have a large work force and will prioritise the 'vulnerable' so are often the best choice for older people.
   

1. How long does the agreement run? Is it renewed 'automatically'. Some of the more dodgy firms stay just inside the law by sending letters some months before any agreement runs out, confirming that if they don't hear in writing within so many days the agreement will be extended at a hugely increased rate. Many of these agreements already extend for three years.
   

1. Whilst 'insurance' is regulated by the FCA, many forms of 'protection' and 'cover' are not. Once you have given your bank details out over the phone it is hard for banks to stop on-going direct debits.
   

I spoke to the local Consumer Advice Bureau who said in the first instance I (I did it in my mums name and got her to sign) needed to write to each firm and ask to cancel the agreement. In most cases the money already committed was lost but the letter was clear that in no circumstances was the cover to be renewed. Based on a scrap of dinner party conversation (talk amongst my peers has definitely switched from rising house prices to elderly care - probably not an improvement) I threw in a bit acknowledging that such rights were limited, but that I (eg 'my daughter' as my mum was writing) understood it was a sector regulators were looking at. I fully intended to forward details of this experience as a case study to the relevant policy official.

It worked like a dream. Several of the firms phoned me and offered money back even though legally my mum was not entitled. All wrote back confirming the agreement would not be renewed.

More importantly your mother is vulnerable. These people prey on the elderly and will be convincing. Banks are caught in a difficult position. They will be reluctant to withdraw services from a customer but have a level of obligation to protect the vulnerable. They may be willing to work with you to find a solution. Ours is for my mother to have a savings account with a debit card but no cheque book and which does not allow overdrafts nor direct debits and which I can top up on line. The rest comes to me, initially by setting up a third party mandate and using my address, though I now have POA.

If someone phones selling something and asking for bank details, she just does not have them to give.

At first she absolutely hated not having a cheque book, and blamed me. However the bank were clear that the problems were evidence she did not have capacity to manage her financial affairs, and so the savings account was the most they could allow her and even that was a concession. In the meantime I have discovered that as long as she has money in her pocket she is fine.

[NotHilda]

Thankyou for that input. I have spoken to the company concerned, they acknowledge that they got her letter and say that the policy will be cancelled. Now we have to wait and see. They asked for the documents back, but I have kept copies.

She's had two unwanted calls since then (not related) and I am pleased to say she reports she put the phone down on both of them. We will just have to keep on at her so that she remembers she doesn't have to be polite to cold callers.

Re scammers, I am thinking we will persuade her to move some of her "bank money" into a cash ISA with a different bank, which she can get at fairly easily, but can't be accessed through her bank account. I ran that past our bank, and they thought is was a reasonable idea.

The trouble is that phone numbers and details will "leak" out of genuine companies unless you tick every no marketing box going - which are not always easy to find. I'm surprised it's not worse than it is. If she gets really shaky on this front, we could look at changing her phone number (not too expensive) and going ex-directory, but she's had her number like 50 years, so she won't be keen. Still needs must.

[Parietal]

Registering the telephone preference might reduce some of the calls?

[NotHilda]

Thanks. They don't stop the scammers and overseas sales calls, but I think I might get her to register as it might stop some of the ones who are just blagging addresses off marketing disks.

[NotHilda]

It's just told me she's already registered :-) That's probably why it isn't worse.

Unfortunately a lot of companies ignore the TPS rules, or use the excuse that they are "partner businesses" of someone you talked to years ago ...

[stationtostation]

My mum and dad have one of the new BT phones, they are brilliant, block most nuisance calls. Money well spent as even though they were on TPS they were getting loads of calls. www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/9106589.htm


www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/9853379/BT-launches-phone-to-block-nuisance-calls.html

[Needmoresleep]

It sounds like a useful early warning.

When my mother started losing the plot financially, she also started to get very defensive, refusing any help. At the time my concern was that she had not completed a tax return for three years, but this problem should have flagged up others. In many ways we were lucky that the loses were only in the thousands. You read of elderly people losing much more, whether to cowboy builders or those dodgy emails promising a fortune.

The ideal is that your mother agrees to a financial POA. You then agree between you what things you might take over and what safeguards are needed. Two arguments are:

1. There are plenty of dodgy people out there who deliberately prey on the elderly. They are good at it. It is easy to be deceived.
   
2. If something were to happen to her you are in a good position to take over. (Stroke obviously, but my mother was incapacitated by slipping on ice.) Going through the courts, should she lose capacity suddenly, would take up to a year.
   

The point about a POA is not that you take over entirely but that you take over simply where your mum has lost capacity. So she still does what she is capable of but you take on the bits she finds difficult, and thereby relieve her of a lot of stress. Once I had taken over my mother's memory test results bounced back significantly. The struggle to keep on top of things must have been very difficult. She was much happier.

It is far easier for for someone to hand over whilst still capable. Sorting out problems after things have drifted for a while can be a nightmare. It took me months, though in fairness my mother's refusal to pay anyone, whether a cleaner, handyman or accountant, meant I had years of catch up. (And two skips of junk mail!) Once everything is registered, a mixture of mail redirect and on-line banking makes things easy.

That said it is really hard for an adult to accept that they are losing the ability to manage their own affairs. Good luck.

[DowntonTrout]

I discovered a similar thing, sadly it was too late as my father died.

He had spent a total of almost £10,000 in 3 years. The worst offender was Readers Digest. Lured in by letters suggesting he was the winner of various sums of money ( you know the type- your name is on this cheque, you could be our big winner- all you have to do is sign up to receiving these books, your first one is free, cancel at anytime...etc) he signed up for collections of books, videos, anything really and never cancelled.

I found £K's of piles of books, unopened in his house. Absolute rubbish that you pick up in The Book People for 99p type stuff. He was also taken in by "Christian" charity requests- all these children are dying- you can help- send £50 now and we will send you a free pen and some poor quality greeting cards ( and pass on your details to any old scammers because you sent us a cheque) and so it went on.

I still get these letters, almost 4 years after he died, despite contacting everyone. It makes my blood boil, it really does. Sorry not to have any useful information.

[Needmoresleep]

I found drawfulls of those pens. I tested them all determined to make use of them where I could. Most did not work.

This experience, as well as once being in a job which involved knowing how much overhead a particular charity (Unicef) charged, plus a loathing of all chuggers, means I limit my own charitable input to local ventures where I know where my money will go. Some of the National Charities are a disgrace. When trying to sort out the problem I found some very sad small campaigning websites, which described the despair and financial destruction caused by charity mailings etc.

Vital Nature and Gourmet Delights are two other firms to look out for. They seem to have a number of clones with French addresses (to keep them beyond UK consumer law) but Scottish postal addresses. They are exorbitantly expensive despite promising all sorts of prizes and offers. I literally found a kitchen cupboard full of pills: the promise of youth and vitality is very appealing.

In the end sticking "deceased, return to sender" on each one did the trick, though it took months.

These poor elderly people.

[DowntonTrout]

[squeezycheeseplease]

There is a product you can buy that claims to stop nuisance calls - I can't remember the name but will try and find it now. It was on Dragon's Den I think, and I've seen good reviews.

[squeezycheeseplease]

This is it - there seems to be version for elderly/vulnerable people too:

www.truecall.co.uk/home.aspx

I don't have anything to do with the company and haven't used the product but it was something I read about and thought it would be good in a few years for my parents; they're not quite at that stage yet but they do get really stressed about these nuisance calls, to the extent that my mum often doesn't pick up the phone and then 1471s to check if it's me .

[nottheparrot]

We have found having (with BT) Caller Display invaluable. Basic phone with ansaphone built in. You imput the names of anyone you're happy to receive calls from - so - eg Susy, Fred, Doctor etc.

When the phone rings, you look at the display and if it shows International, Number Withheld, or an unrecognised number, you leave it go to ansaphone. They hang up as soon as the ansaphone clicks in. If it shows Susy etc, you pick it.

[ProfessorDent]

Those BT phones look great, but the Big Button ones are very unstylish unfortunately, I think my Dad would be put off by them, plus there are some dodgy reviews on Amazon too. Shame really.

[PerditaXDream]

I've just found this thread, an hour after coming back from my mum's to try and sort out the latest scam attempt.

She in her 70's so no age really but over the last few years we've had -

Cold callers selling her boiler insurance when she already has British Gas servicing - check
Cold callers selling her outrageously expensive electric beds and chairs - check
Cold callers selling her a £100 device to stop cold callers (it came with no directions so no idea how it's supposed to work) - check
Cold callers getting her to access her laptop (she uses it to check email and play patience these days, very little else) and do god knows what before charging her for the privilege - check, check, check.

I managed to stop the Reader's Digest stuff when she was in hospital after a stroke, but she's signed up to donate to umpteen charities, has mail order catalogues galore, and is clearly on the scam callers' sucker list.

I have power of attorney and have registered this with her bank so I can now monitor her accounts, but that doesn't stop her giving out her card number to just about anyone who rings up and sounds plausible enough, nor does it stop the chancers who come to her door and offer building work cash in hand.

I have no idea what to do next. I can't be at her house 24 hours a day and a lot of the time she's on the ball enough to say no, but the times she's said yes have cost her thousands.

[NotHilda]

Thank you all for suggestions about call blocking. I will keep the references. I also got from someone on WhoCallsMe this website //www.call-blockers.co.uk (This was for us - way before Mum.) I haven't checked it out. I can see that I must survey these resources and see what may work for us.

We already have a POA, though we are not using it as at present she seems to be able to handle her own money without anything catastrophic happening, though she sometimes forgets where she puts it.

Happily she got out of the Readers Digest net years ago after a bad experience trying to cancel an order. I like the magazine, but dislike the organisation that sends out these prize draws and competitions. It's not just them, we had a "subscriptions department" from a major and very respectable newspaper that was worse.

The boiler company BTW seems to have cancelled the policy in good order, though I haven't had a chance to check her bank yet.

Happily, she doesn't appear to be "hooked" on mail order. Even getting her to try and choose and order another corset she likes is proving to be something of a lost cause. But this is better than her going nuts on catalogues.

[Needmoresleep]

Last week I had a call purporting to come from TPS and trying to sell me a device which would stop nuisance calls. I checked with the TPS website. They give a list of firms who may be offering products not endorsed by them. It is a long list. Worth checking before you buy anything.

Perdita, it sounds as if you have the T shirt as well.Its shocking how people prey on the vulnerable. My mum is now in sheltered housing and all visitors have to sign in with reception. 18 months ago, and my mother could have been pursuaded to sign away everything.