Undeserved bursary

(314 Posts)
Hamstersball Sat 16-Mar-13 23:13:20

I know a child that has been offered a very substantial bursary at my dd's independent school. She has passed the academic selection process and on the surface can be very charming, able to talk to grown ups at ease etc. However we have known her for several years as dd1 and her are in the same brownies pack and her behaviour has always been dreadful: picking fights with other dc, racist and foul language, lying when confronted, bullying other children. I can only conclude that her school lied between their teeth about her when they gave her a reference to support her bursary application as several mothers who know her at school say her behaviour is also dreadful there. I'm really tempted to inform dd's school about the true nature of this child and want to know if anyone has done something similar and what was the outcome.

Mutteroo Wed 20-Mar-13 10:05:33

What a shame. No sign of the OP. Either if she's genuine, she has got the message that no one agrees with her or it was just one of those silly wind up threads which certainly wound some up!

jeee Tue 19-Mar-13 12:02:34

If the OP is doing as much with the Brownies as her OP suggests, she presumably had an enhanced CRB check. When this is done (as I know many of you are only too aware) you have to read a load of bumpf about YOUR behaviour - especially about confidentiality. The OP is clearly only too ready to gossip about this child.

MTSgroupie Tue 19-Mar-13 11:30:06

Dizzy - Forums like Relationships and AIBU would die overnight if we stopped discussing people that we don't know smile

anotherangrybird Tue 19-Mar-13 09:43:14

It sounds as if what this girl has been offered is a "means tested scholarship". That is offered based on a combination of academic merit and financial need.

My DS is starting at a school in September with exactly the same offer. He has been told this is a great honour and that during his time at school he will be expected to perform and behave in an exemplary manner. Frankly, I think this is fair. The money DOES NOT come from fees, it comes from fundraising. My DS worked very hard to achieve this and wholly deserves it. I still meet a few parents at pickup time, miserable immature people like the OP, who stare at us wondering "why them and not us?", drowning in their own green juice.

OP, if one of them ever dared to go to the school to question the decision, they would be wise to leave the country asap. angry angry

DizzyHoneyBee Tue 19-Mar-13 07:24:05

At the end of the day, the child that the OP is talking about deserves to be given a chance and deserves not to be spoken about on a public forum.

Those of you who have been saying things that are negative about the child (who you almost certainly do not know), how would you feel if it was your child?

All children deserve the chance to achieve as much as they can achieve, including this one.

scaevola Tue 19-Mar-13 06:57:58

If they were scholarship pupils (ie the very brightest) they it's not stigmatisation, and more than a prefects tie would be.

If they were bursary pupils, then it would be.

And if it was a school such as this, that in the first day of the thread made its sole financial award for academic ability (ie scholarship despite name) but later became means tested, presumably the children have mixed dress?

Bunbaker Tue 19-Mar-13 06:53:55

"All the scholarship children at my school were required to wear different clothes."

That's awful. A very poor lesson to others on how to stigmatise others.

nooka Tue 19-Mar-13 02:38:56

All the scholarship children at my school were required to wear different clothes. I don't recall them being any nicer than anyone else. Seems an odd criteria to me, surely the school is subsidizing them in order to increase the grade average / increase the numbers going to Oxbridge etc. Important criteria to many parents and much advertised in the school brochure.

Mutteroo Tue 19-Mar-13 01:38:58

Where's the OP gone?

Please come back, this thread is hysterical!

scaevola Mon 18-Mar-13 21:01:36

So OP is saying two different things about the nature of the award during the course of the thread.

Interesting.

teacherwith2kids Mon 18-Mar-13 20:59:00

Tasmania, the point I am making is that a child with a bursary should have the same behaviour expectations placed upon them as a normal fee-paying child.

Obviously, if they fall well below the expected standard - behaviour that would have a fee-paying child at risk of expulsion / exclusion / 'asked to leave' - then a bursary-holder should also be asked to leave.

However, saying that a bursary-holder should have their place withdrawn (because that will be the normal effect of a withdrawn bursary) because their behaviour is not better than a fee-paying child's is outrageous - it is discrimination on the grounds of being poorer than average within the school.....

bruffin Mon 18-Mar-13 20:40:17

x posted

bruffin Mon 18-Mar-13 20:39:28

No op said that it was means tested which was very low to eliminate average income families.

Floralnomad Mon 18-Mar-13 20:39:26

No she said in her 15:20 post yesterday that it is means tested and that its set very low so rules out average income families , which I assume means you have to be low income to qualify.

scaevola Mon 18-Mar-13 20:34:38

Can I remind posters that OP said this award, called a bursary by this school, is actually what would normally be termed a scholarship - it's based on academic performance and is not means tested.

seeker Mon 18-Mar-13 20:31:28

"And why shouldn't you expect better behavior??? Politically correct UK (or Mumsnet) seems to be the only place where people think someone with less income is more deserving REGARDLESS of their behavior"

I don't think anyone thinks that. But I don't think that you should have to be better behaved because you're poor! That is just outrageous.

Movingtimes Mon 18-Mar-13 19:56:13

Everybody blames Brown Owl, Pathan.
<<resigned sigh>>

Tasmania Mon 18-Mar-13 19:51:31

Ehm... seeker - I am afraid you're right... that is how it's normally being justified. This is many years ago now, but my mother was a scholarship kid, and if she ever dropped below the required grade average or showed signs of bad behavior, it was THE END (in her case, it would seriously have been the end of her schooling).

And why shouldn't you expect better behavior??? Politically correct UK (or Mumsnet) seems to be the only place where people think someone with less income is more deserving REGARDLESS of their behavior. I, for one, would have opted for the less intelligent but well-behaved candidate rather than the intelligent but down-right obnoxious. But to be honest, I can't believe there wasn't a child around with the same level of intelligence, but better behavior... unless the child really is not that bad. So who knows???

Shaded Mon 18-Mar-13 19:44:40

This is upsetting on so many levels - the child may or may not have issues as alleged by OP. However, what is so upsetting is that OP's through her words and actions is determined to make this child's existence in her DD's school miserable.

OP considering going to the Head is the least of what she has done - the girl will be a new student in a school where other girls have been together for a while, OP would have informed other mothers about this nightmare child joining the school, girls in her class would be asked to avoid her and if this girl even has an iota of behavioural issues, this would only make it worse.

I want OP to go to the Head with her concerns so the school would at least be aware of what this child will be dealing with.

OP may think that she is acting as a concerned parent but it is important that we as parents do not turn into bullies ourselves.

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac Mon 18-Mar-13 19:43:30

I blame Brown Owl myself.

teacherwith2kids Mon 18-Mar-13 19:40:06

I presume that is just there so that if a child has serious behavioural issues, the school can in future withdraw the bursary.

I mean, how on earth can the school assess it on entry with any accuracy, transparency or fairness? 'I will line you all up from most deserving to least descrving poor, based on...um, not quite sure, how on earth do we measure behaviour in a bunch of children that we have never seen before?'

Tasmania Mon 18-Mar-13 19:36:35

teacherwith2kids - if you read the OPs comments, she did said that "exemplary behavior" is meant to be part of the criteria of being awarded a bursary at that school...

Tasmania Mon 18-Mar-13 19:32:52

Coconutty - You can use that extreme because it is the most direct way of showing people that kids CAN be very horrible whether you like it or not. Too many times, people use the he/she "just being a kid" line as an excuse for bad behavior - there are obviously, less direct/visible examples, but it's often when you mention that one case where the penny finally drops.

In the OP's case, I do agree all she should do is ask the school to keep her child separate due to prior history. I may even go as far as say that the prior history involves bullying on the part of that child.

I would NOT suggest that OP should mention the bursary... at all. Just along the lines of "I was made aware that xxx will join the school, and would like to ask you to keep my dd away from her due to prior history between them."

School staff can work out for themselves what to do.

teacherwith2kids Mon 18-Mar-13 19:32:32

X posted with seeker, and agree with her comments - why should a chil with a bursary have to have higher behavioural standards that his / her fee-paying colleagues?

What you are saying, effectively, is:
'If your family is poorer than the norm for this shool, then you have to behave REALLY well to be considered worthy of a place here. Only the rich kids are allowed to misbehave.'

teacherwith2kids Mon 18-Mar-13 19:29:48

Tasmania,

Scholarship kids - of whom I was one, in the past - are expected to 'set the standard' academically. There was never any expectation that behaviourally I should be a paragon, though I have to say I was not exactly a teenage rebel (being a spotty swotty type doesn't often go hand in hand with rebellion).

Modern bursaries in many schools are now simply awarded to those who meet the school's entrance standards, with the level of the bursary being set according to parental income. So there is no expectatoion that either academic performance or behaviour should be 'above the norm' - just level with the norm coupled with parents with lower incomes.

I realise that busaries are rationed - and that there are two ways of doing that, by parental income or by child's academic merit. If the latter, then there is some element of the old-fashioned acaemic scholarship, with an expectation of academic excellence. However I have never seen one where the aim was to bring in children who would be behavioural role models - in fact, in some cases the reverse, as the bursaries are designed to draw form a wider pool than the 'naice MC kids' who form the fee-paying intake (though tbh, having moved jobs from a primary with a very challenging intake to one with a very MC intake, I know where the better in-school behavious and manners werre ... and it's not in the MC school). OIf course there is an expectation that a child with a bursary will conform to the behavioural expectations and norms of the school, but expected to be 'a beacon of virtue'? perhaps not.

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