religion/evangelising in school - just don't read if you're an evangelist, please

[geekgrrl]

Hello all,

I've posted about this before - ages ago - I don't know what to do really but just need to get it off my chest.
I (mostly) love the community primary school my daughters go to. Dd2 has just started, she's got various SN and the school are getting it completely right with her. Dd1 is in yr2 and extremely happy and doing very well. It's a lovely school all-round.

However, there is a very very strong religious influence, probably from the head, though I am not sure. They have a local methodist preacher, who is extremely evangelical, taking assembly at least once a week. Dd2 always comes home singing hymns - lately it's the Lord's Prayer in musical form .

I stayed away from this year's harvest festival as last year's just made me so cross - the children were made to pray with their hands together and heads down, all the songs they sung were very religious in nature etc.

They pray so many times a day - it makes me so cross. In the morning at assembly, before lunch, and then again at the end of the school day. This is not even a church school FFS!!!!

I have complained to the head and was palmed off with daily worship being a legal requirement.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to start an argument because they really go out of their way with dd2 and do much more with her and for her than the average school would, but this religious business is bugging me so, so much.

I'm actually a school governor, but have only started recently and I don't want to bring my own personal grievances into the role, IYKWIM.

I guess the answer is to put up and shut up. I don't want to remove the dds from assemblies, as it wouldn't be fair on them and besides, there's lots of other stuff going on in assemblies. I draw the line at outings to church services and have withdrawn dd1 from this in the past.

There's no problem with RE, it's taught well and in a very open way that is respectful of diversity.

[coppertop]

That sounds like a lot for a non-religious school. I went to a Catholic school and we certainly didn't pray 3 times a day.

[geekgrrl]

that's what I thought, coppertop. Dd1 went to a catholic school briefly and got nowhere near as much religion rammed down her throat.

[Marina]

Given how well they are doing on every other front, this must be such a vexing issue for you Geekgrrl. I agree with Coppertop that this sounds excessive even for a Church School, and the fact that it is not one really makes this level of religious observance inappropriate IMO.
I'm not sure what to suggest though...maybe your position as new School Governor can help you get an insight into how many other parents might be feeling uncomfortable with the situation too, and you can approach the Head from the perspective of representing several people's views. Good luck. I am a practising Christian but can fully see your POV on this.

[aloha]

Compain to the LEA? The governors? It's totally OTT, and very disrespectful and indeed insulting, IMO, of children from atheist homes and those from homes of different religions. For heavens sake, many of us choose community schools precisely to avoid this sort of thing.

[skinnycow]

how long are the prayer sessions? at my kids old school (non church) they had close links with a local Christian centre and one of their chaps used to come in and take many of the classes for extra sports groups (ie. basketball, tagrugby etc) (he was a sports teacher). He's always invited (and rightly so) to the school events and often says a few prayers with the kids thanking god for their success, help with any troubles they may have etc. The kids love it

[aloha]

The kids may or may not love it, but I think it is totally wrong. If he's there to teach sports he should stick to that. I would absolutely hate it if this was happening to my kids.

[Marina]

I agree aloha. If I had chosen a secular community school for my child I would not want any one belief system imposed other than what was statutory under education law. I'm sure the man is lovely skinnycow and I'm sure he means well and the children love it, but there are church schools for families that want this level of religious observance in the school setting.

[skinnycow]

its only a couple of times a year though - it honestly wouldnt bother me if it was a representative from any other religion doing it either. A couple of years ago when ds was in year 2 a good proportion of the parents in the class wouldnt allow their children to go to the Mosque

[geekgrrl]

mh, I almost wish I hadn't become a governor, then I could complain to them. Same with complaining to the LEA - I'm supposed to have a close working relationship with the head because of dd2, and with me being a parent governor, if they get a complaint from me via the LEA it'll sour things I think.
It's so hard, I really like the head, and what they're doing for dd2 is outstanding - for instance they got the entire staff including dinner ladies to do a Makaton (sign language) course, and everybody at the school learns 5 new signs a week. I really can't fault them.
OTOH, this thing p*sses me off so much. As you said aloha, it's insulting and disrespectful of the fact that not everybody believes in what they believe.

[aloha]

I really think the daily worship requirement is a problem in schools. It's just wrong IMO that if you are of a different religion or none, there is no state school provision that is not Christian.
And it puts parents the unattractive position of basically having to tell their children that their shool is wrong, which I'm sure most teachers think is unhelpful.

[geekgrrl]

yes, wasn't there some talk of abolishing it a while ago - last year I think? I wonder what happened with that. It's outragous, if people want their children to pray they can do it at home for goodness' sake.
I'm proably not even allowed to complain now because of those new laws about about religious defamation.

[skinnycow]

abolishing it in ALL schools?

[aloha]

Well, yes, I would very much like to see Christian worship removed from all schools. But since that is unlikely to happen any time soon, I would certainly like it to be removed from non-religious schools.

[geekgrrl]

yes, skinnycow, all non-church schools. How would you feel if your child was being told by their teachers that fairies are real and we must all worship the fairies? Or if they put a statue of a giant turnip in the school playground and declared that to be holy? That's how it currently is for us atheists.
Religion is a family matter, people can practice it at home, go to church, whatever. If that's not enough they can send their child to a church school. Most western countries (France, USA, Germany, Sweden spring to mind, but many more I'm sure) allow no religious influence in state schools, and quite rightly so.

[daisy1999]

we are a christian country and I personally believe that all children in all of our schools should be taught christianity so they can make their own minds up when they are older.
I also find that, regardless of my own beliefs, it makes it much easier to explain the concept of death to them without upsetting them if they believe in heaven.

[coppertop]

Ds1 is at a community school. One of the reasons I chose it was because the amount of religion would be far less than at my old school. I like the way that they learn about aspects of other religions but I'm not keen on him having to say prayers in assembly. I just feel that if I wanted him to be saying prayers then I would be taking him to church myself.

[geekgrrl]

daisy, there are other ways of explaining death in a sensitive and not-too-upsetting way, we don't resort to stories about heaven.

[aloha]

How on earth does indoctrinating a child into one particular religion help them 'make up their own mind'?
I already tell my son that some people believe in different kinds of gods but it's just a story really and there isn't really a god. But I honestly I don't want to either contradict his school or have his school contradict me. It seems pointless and stupid.

[daisy1999]

I'm grateful that the school teaches them christianity and helps them pray because I don't take them to church and I'm not comfortable teaching them it at home.

[dejags]

Nothing constructive, just wanted to add that I totally agree with you Geekgrrl.

I have a similar problem - DS1 attends an International School in Cape Town, it offers UK Curriculum and in almost all respects we are happy.

We are not particularly religious - although I would classify myself as Christian, I dont attend church. The religion thing really grates me - he is 4 and comes home singing a different religious song every day, the also have prayers twice a day. All the kids have to participate and we were never asked if our religious beliefs fitted in with this, leaves me feeling very grumbly indeed.

I have taken the stance that it's a fantastic school, DS is happy and thriving, so it's a small price to pay. DH on the other hand often threatens to complain, but never does.

[geekgrrl]

that's good and well for you daisy, as you believe in it. However, as I explained, to me and a sizeable proportion of the population it's right up there with Santa and the toothfairy.

[daisy1999]

aloha I think that's dreadful telling your child there is no god. Surely this is something everyone should decide for themselves! I'm trully shocked.
I tell my children that different people believe in different gods and some people don't beleive god exists at all. If they ask what I believe I tell them but I also say that we all have to make our own mind up.

[weesaidie]

But the problem here isn't about being taught about different religions is it Daisy? It is about children being forced to partake in religious activities!

Not learn but do.

If I had chosen a non-church school I would not be happy having prayers as I am an atheiest.

I think I would take them out of assemblies or complain to the LEA! Even if it did p*ss them off!

[daisy1999]

gg i don't think I said what I actually beleive!

[weesaidie]

I think it is Alohas right to tell her child whatever she believes. As it is yours Daisy.