top set and struggling or bottom set and confident?

[Yorkiegirl]

Message withdrawn

[iota]

not something I have to worry about YG

[chipmonkey]

If they were genuinely going to struggle, I wouldn't want them in the "top" set. My problem with ds1 is that he's very intelligent but very distractible so sometimes doesn't do himself justice in tests. Last year his year was assessed and he scored very badly but when the test was repeated by putting him in a room by himself with one teacher supervising he scored very highly! And he's only in primary school now, we may be in for years of this!

[GeorginaA]

Well, as someone who went into top set French (which had an excellent french teacher, but she spoke CONSTANT french with no english in between like I was used to) it turned me from enjoying a foreign language to LOATHING it. I would have preferred to have had an easier ride in a lower set, tbh.

That said, I did quite well because it forced me to work hard to keep up, but at the same time my confidence was shot and I've always assumed I was "bad" at languages ever since...

[paolosgirl]

How do you know your child is in the top/bottom/whatever set? Both DS and DD's schools don't tell parents, but instead you are told that your child is in a set appropriate to them. That's as it should be, IMO

[marialuisa]

Because the kids cotton on pretty quickly Paolosgirl!

[Yorkiegirl]

Message withdrawn

[coppertop]

Given a choice I would prefer ds1 to be in the bottom group and confident. His self-confidence has really helped him to make good progress at school and I hope it continues that way tbh. I'd prefer him to be happy than struggling and frustrated.

[WigWamBam]

I'd prefer bottom set and confident to top set and struggling. I'd rather dd was in a position where she was able to learn and work effectively, and hopefully to improve, and I think that she would have more chance of doing that if she wasn't always struggling to keep up.

[Gem754]

I wasn't in the top set for science, was quite happy just below and enjoyed my teachers. Because of this came out with top grades at GCSE, so I'd have to say bottom set and confident. There's no point in placing a child in a class that is moving to quickly for them as they will only become frustrated and give up entirely.

Sounds like some of the parents are just snobs.

[Caligula]

I had exactly this question this year for DS (6). Was very surprised that headmistress asked me into her office for a chat and explained that DS's form teacher recommended that DS be put in the Yr 2 form with the older reception kids (the ones who skip yr 1) and the younger kids in his year as even though his age would have him in the older form, they thought he'd do better being one of the abler in that class than less able in the other.

At this age, i didn't even have to think about it - just said that seemed eminently sensible, as my priority for him now is that he enjoys school, has a positive attitude to learning and perceives school work as something he can do and is good at rather than as something he can't do and has no relevance to him.

Headmistress was visibly relieved -she obviously has at least a couple of unpleasant interviews every year with pushy parents who don't agree with their judgements.

[charliecat]

I was going to suggest to dds teacher that she looked again at her abilitys as she is in the tops group for spelling and maths and at home she was making it really hard work for herself by not trying. Wanting to know the answer rather than work at it.
Her school work seems to be fine though, neatly done with the right answers (no angrily screwed up pieces of paper there then!)
So id prefer bottom and confident rather than top and struggling which is what i thought she was.
They know they are top because they get green and blue and yellows work as well as thier own red groups on top, for spelling anyway.

[Enid]

dd1 is in the 'bottom' set. I really minded at first but she doesn't seem to care.

She is doing really well now and she isn't very confident when she tries new things so I think it has been good for her.

but she's only in Year 1! (they divide year one between reception and year 2)

[flamesparrow]

As long as bottom set is "confident" and not bored, then bottom.

I remember being in a lower set for maths, and having to beg to be moved up because I was so bored.

I was bloody awkward for science - I was good at the hard stuff, but the basics tended to let me down (I over thought everything), so they had no idea where to stick me

[Blandmum]

To my mind the most important thing for child to do well is for them to have work set at an appropriate level. So it is better for them to have challenging work that they can have a hope of doing, rather than being swamped in a higher attainment class.

My worries would be if there were children in 'bottom sets' (not a phrase I like either) who have behavioural/dicipline problems that are not being addressed by the school....and this is my worry both as a teacher and as a parent.

[paolosgirl]

Are you talking about secondary school here? Mine are both in Primary School, which is probably why the kids are not aware.

[Blandmum]

I teach in secondary, and the children are very aware of which set is which. They can also 'place' themselves within a class with great accuracy (even though we don't give grades for work, just comments!)

My kids are in Primary and dd when she was in y2 knew which was the 'toop' set for english etc.

They seem to pick it up very easily. ds is in y1 abd he is aware that the rest ofthe class are ahead of him in reading...but he has bags of confidence and is making progress and is happy

[Yorkiegirl]

Message withdrawn

[charliecat]

My dds at primary, Year 3 and shes always been able to tell. She has moved from top to middle and knew because red is hard, blue is medium...

[iota]

my ds is in yr 2 and knows who's on the hard or easy reading books, who gets the hard spellings, which girl is the best reader in the class, who's best at maths etc etc

[roisin]

How many primaries actually do set children for core subjects?

DS1 is in yr4 and is in a mixed ability class, though they are arranged by table, and given differentiated work. I thought this was the norm?

In our secondary many classes are completely mixed ability - English (yr7 & 8), Humanities, music, art. Science set by motivation. I can only think of Maths and MFL that have traditional sets from yr7.

[gladstone]

Roisin - lots of primaries set for Literacy and Numeracy, usually just in KS2 (it's those SATs results they are after, don't you know....)., although usually just for a set time (Spring term is when the big 'push' often takes place) The ones I've come across usually set across Y3 and 4, then Y5 and 6.

All the bigger primaries I know set across parallel classes in upper KS2.

I'd be interested to know others experiences.

[roisin]

That's interesting. Ds1's school got 'excellent' at Ofsted, and very high value-added scores, but certainly don't do setting in yr4 or below. (There are two parallel classes per year).

Having said that in yrs 3-6 the 'bottom' 20% are pulled out for separate sessions (with one TA to 5 children) for every literacy and numeracy hour; and the 'next' 20% have quite a lot of these sessions too.

[JoolsToo]

read the thread line and thought it was about dentures - ha, ha!

[gladstone]

I'm still undecided about what I think.

A friend of mine who teaches Y6 in a large primary says that it has revolutionised the way they teach, in that which ever set you've got (they have 3 - the 2 class teachers and the 'booster' teacher) really start making progress as you deliver stuff that's just right for their progress. She had the more able group last year, and said it was just a joy - really being able to stretch them in ways that would have been impossible in a mixed ability group.

[roisin]

Showing your age JT!