Ofsted/results Vs Gut instinct when choosing a school.

[LadyTophamHatt]

We could be in a postition when Ds1 has to change schools soon and was wondering whether I should go by the results of the school or just how it feels when we visit.


2 schools, similar pupil numbers, similar results, similar distance away from home.

How would you choose?




(emmatmg)

[Hulababy]

I'd go for a bit of both. If very simailr lie you say - gutinstinct is the way forward probably. See how you feel when you visit them.

[puff]

With everything else being about equal, definitely go with your instincts about the "feel" of the 2 schools.

[LadyTophamHatt]

I'm favouring the one with not quite as good results ATM which seems like silly thing to do. I feel like should go for the better one regardless of gut instinct.

[motherinferior]

Nah, as everyone says, 'results aren't everything'. Go for the one you like.

[Rowlers]

Better results don't always mean a better school, unless they are significantly better!
It might be interesting to see the pattern of results over the last 3 years say.
Read Ofsted report too and go in and visit.
You will definitely get a feel for a place when you are there.

[puff]

What did you like about the one you liked (IYSWIM )?

[LadyTophamHatt]

well, I've only looked at the school websites and skimmed the ofsted reports so my feelings about them aren't based on much but I like the one I like because it looks alot nicer


Shallow....moi?

[Moomin]

Bit of both I would say - definitely not JUST on Ofsted report. Gut feeling means a lot in my book. I'd say:
Atmosphere of building when you go in
Pictures and displays on walls
Children look ordered when moving around corridors (try to watch at least one 'move-around' while you're there, e.g. beginning of school, breaktime, lunchtime, etc)
How children react to visitors
Lack of litter
Attitude of person showing you round
Also try to talk to a few pupils

With results you best indication is to look at the school's rating on the report for 'value-added' rating. This means what they do with the children they have at one end by the time they leave the school. You should be looking for an A*, A or B rating ideally. Also look at percentage of special needs children and those entitled to free school dinners on the report. This is ONLY to get an idea of the socio-econmoic status of the school so that you can compare it with similiar schools as these two factors are usually the best indicators of the area a school is in.
Hope this helps.

[Moomin]

If you let me know the names of the schools I can get this data for you off their Ofsted reports. CAT me if you don't want to write the names up here.

[roisin]

I definitely would not base any judgements on results - well at least not small differences in results. (I presume you're not talking about below 50% or anything?) Ofsted reports can be useful in parts, if you know how to read them.

My boys do not go to the "top school" as far as league tables are concerned, but after visiting, it was our first choice school, and 3 years on we remain very impressed. (It does get excellent Ofsteds though). I think at a primary school the Head is crucial; and I would put quite a lot of emphasis on what I thought of the Head when visiting.

But "gut reaction" counts for a lot when visiting a school IMO. Your children are individuals, and you probably have a good idea of what would and would not suit them. When we first visited our school I was struck my the quiet, focused working atmosphere in the classrooms, the high quality display work, the fact that the Head knew all the children - not just by name, and the fact that children always held the doors open and said good morning to the Head.

We KNEW instantly that our boys would be happy there, would be challenged, and would fulfil their potential. And we were right.

[Rowlers]

Good list Moomin.
Just a word of warning though - the Value-added status can be very misleading.
My school scores badly on this because we have virtually no pupils on free school meals.
However, our intake is distinctly working class (big council estate nearby) and our pupils achieve excellent GCSE results when they leave.

[Moomin]

Interesting point, Rowlers. I take it if LadyTH knows the area(s) fairly well this may not be a problem perhaps? Is your school a bit unique then - are other schools in the area the same as far as free school meals go?
I've never been sure if this figure records how many children are entitled to fsm as oppsed to how many actually claim them, iyswim. This would alter the figures considerably, in an area like yours, I presume?

[LadyTophamHatt]

Thanks for all this. We visited 2 schools today, Cradle Hill Primary and Seaford primary both the seaford(strangley enough)

Gut instinct tell me to go for the Cradle hill, but Y2 has only 1 place left so could easily be fulll when we need it and it's a much much longer walk for them. This would be the ideal school for DS1 IMO
Seaford Primary (which I favoured yesterday) had a much more relaxed informal feel to it. Ds2 would love(he'd go into reception). Class sizes are smaller here too.


Hmmmmmm, what a dilemma.

[LadyTophamHatt]

.

[Moomin]

Just had a look at Seaford's Ofsted and it looks promising, esp the commenst about the Head and teachers. It was made 2 years ago, so things may have changed but usually after a report like this it would be for the better, esp if they've got the same Head. I'd say if you got a better feeling for Seaford, go for it.

[LadyTophamHatt]

Thanks moomin, I think we will be going for that one.

Changing to either school would be a hard for DS1 but I'm thinking that as DS2 will like it so much and it's so relaxed and casual it will be easier to settle both of them in in the long run.
The headmaster was wearing a linen shirt, shorts and sandals, that's how chilled it was.

[sunnyside]

Just for info a school I worked at used pairs of pupils to show new parents and pupils around. The parents would meet up with the head and he would take them around again and clear up any issues/ answer questions etc. I thought this was great cos the kids loved doing it, parents got a 'kid's eye view' and it boosted pupil confidence with adult interaction. Need to be aware though that some schools who do this only choose the most confident of pupils to show guests around whereas others use everyone who wants to.

[fisil]

So you've got 3 things to go on: results, Ofsted or gut feeling.

Results are not a good indicator, as people have said, even more so when it is a small school.

Ofsted has a very strict framework, but I've often heard Ofsted inspectors say that you get a feel for the school the moment you walk through the doors on the first day of the inspection - in other words there is an element of gut feeling in the report, after all it is written by humans (OK, OK, I know that not all Ofsted inspectors are human!)

Gut feeling. By far and the way the best. You know your children better than anyone, better than any inspector, and better than a bunch of grades.

Don't know if I'm opening a can of worms here, but I came from an educational background in which grades were everything. It took me several years of adult life to realise that they really weren't!

[bundle]

fisil, there's also good old personal recommendation

[LadyTophamHatt]

Strangley enough (again) I was shown around by 2 yr6 pupils. The young girl knew every teacher and every room, the young lad wasn't so confident with all the names but they really did enjoy their job.
I thought it was a really nice touch.

[fisil]

personal recommendation is good, but only if it is from someone whose children are at the school. There is a lot of outdated info being said about a local school by local parents. But if you actually visit the school or read the Ofsted, it is an excellent place - it just had a dodgy time a few years ago and isn't very pretty/in a pretty neighbourhood!

[LadyTophamHatt]

My gut instinct yesterday was Seaford primary, then after the visits it changed to cradle hill.

Now after thinking about the whole thing and how they will settle in it's Seaford again.

I'll phone them tomorrow.

[LadyTophamHatt]

fisil, do you know the school then?

[bundle]

of course, I meant from those at the school

[clary]

yeah agree with others here.
Remember that Ofsted may be several years ago and thus out of date (eg staff may have changed, there may have been significant improvements in poorer school/deterioration in better school etc).
I would always go on gut feeling and also chat to other parents, what do they say about the school.
The school with the best results in this area is one I would never send my children to, IMO it is a hot-house and very rarely takes children with SN. Just don't like its competitive atmosphere.