Private nursery V State pre-school? HELP!

[dropinthe]

My DS1 has been attending a private Asquith Court run Nursery since a month before his second birthday-he attends two full days a week from 8 am to 4.15-he is well established there,has made good friends with both children and carers alike.
He is now 3 and 9 months-due to go to primary school next September.My problem is that all the mothers I know are sending their kids to pre-school five days a week,free of charge and I'm getting vibes that this is what I should be doing too to get him into the "schooling structure" of life.
I am struggling with 2 things here-on the one hand I don't want him to go to a pre-school for 5 mornings a week-he's going to spend the next 10/12 years doing that.On the other hand I am concerned about the amount of schooling he is actually getting at his present nursery.They are rather slow on the uptake of development charts etc and I always have to push them to tell me how he is doing.He should be starting to read and write more which he isn't and recognsing some letters and numbers.
What should I do? Its not like I work in the days he is at nursery and even after the Early years grant we are paying £120.00 per month to keep him there-I just don't want to disrupt him for disruptions sake but I also don't want him to fall behind!
Sorry for how long!

[Toothache]

Dropinthe - Did you say that your 3.9 yr old should be reading and writing more??????

My ds is 4.2yrs. He's been at a private nursery that offers pre-school education now for a year.... and will do another year before starting school next August. It never occurred to me to find out how his 'education' was going as all his development seems perfectly normal. He can 'almost' write his name (gets the Y backwards). And he can recognise all the letters of the alphabet..... which as far as I have been told is very good!!

I hasten to say this..... but.... why is reading and writing such a concern for a child who is not even 4 yet??

Maybe I'm naive.

[foxinsocks]

is the state school pre-school the school where you want him to go to reception? if so, then I think if you can send him there and you can get a place, then it's definitely worth it. Not because of what they learn but because they make friends who will start reception with them and because they get into the whole school ethos (and they learn the way the school teaches writing etc.). I don't think you have to go to the pre-school but I think the money issue might swing it for me! It's only 2 and a half hours a day anyway so probably less than what he does in 2 days.

[Skate]

Well, ds1 (and ds2) went to a pre-school private nursery that is only open 9-1pm. He was so settled there and absolutely loved it that I left him there last year (his pre-school yr) while others chose the school nursery.

I didn't put him in school nursery because the hours were short (only about 2 hrs) and at his private one he got to stay for a packed lunch which I thought was quite good preparation for school!

I'm not overly bothered about what he can and can't do before he goes to school either - mums around me are definitely more anxious about where they are with letters and numbers etc and i can see they want their kids to be well ahead. Well I think this is their time to be children, to enjoy playing and socialising and school is for structured learning.

However, his pre-school is OFSTED inspected so does follow the curriculum and he has just started reception today and can do all the things they probably expect him to - write his name, write his numbers, recognise his numbers blah, blah. He has learned some of this through nursery (where it was approached in a very laid back manner, plus there were only about 6 pre-schoolers there so they had pretty focused attention at the times they were doing more 'structured learning') and some just through being at home and watching TV, reading, being out and about with me. They learn SO much through every day life that I really think that 'pushing' them to learn to do these things so early is just not necessary.

A friend of mine has her children in a very expensive private nursery where from 2 they have book bags and reading homework! It's very, very structured indeed - I can honestly say there is no difference between her dd and my ds1 who are the same age. She is no further on with reading and letters and I'd actually say ds1 was better at numbers (we meet every week, play games etc so it's quite obvious).

Basically, I'd stick with where he's happy.

[scotlou]

My ds went to a private day nursery 2 full days a week (my mum looked after him the other 3 days). They do some pre-reading / writing / number work with the older ones - but don't push it if the child isn't keen. He then started P1 at 4 1/2 (Scotland) at which point he could not write his name or recognise numbers. He has had no problems. Other kids in his class did attend the local pre-school and the teachers found no difference. He also had no problems making friends (admittedly it is a very small school).
I would leave him where he is.

[iota]

early years providers follow teh Fouyndation stage laid out by govt guidelines - -these are goals to be achieved BY THE END OF THE RECEPTION YEAR, so plenty of time for your little one
Took this from a govt website here :


All 4 year olds and many 3 year olds are entitled to free part-time education. These early years, together with their time in reception class at primary school, make up the foundation stage.

It probably won't feel like learning - most children see it as just fun and play. But as they get to grips with speaking and listening, singing and dancing, stories and counting, they'll be gaining all the basic skills that will get them off to a flying start when they reach year 1.

'What is the Foundation Stage?'

It's for children aged 3-5, and covers the years they spend from the beginning of nursery or pre-school to the end of reception class in primary school. It was introduced in September 2000 to cover these important years in your child's life.

'Where will my child go for Foundation Stage?'

The government is funding Foundation Stage places:

• in nursery and reception classes
  
• in playgroups
  
• in pre-schools
  
• in nurseries
  
• with accredited childminders in approved childminding networks.
  
  To find out what's available in your area, call ChildcareLink on 08000 96 02 96, or look at their web site: www.childcarelink.gov.uk
  
  ChildcareLink can give you the number of your local Children's Information Service, who will tell you what's available.
  
  Wherever your child goes, staff who work with them will focus on the Early Learning Goals.
  
  They set out what most children are expected to achieve by the end of the foundation stage. They help people who work with children aged 3-5 to focus on what children need to learn. They are not a curriculum with lots of different subjects. They are six broad areas of learning.
  
  
• Personal, social and emotional development. Your child will learn to be self-confident, take an interest in things, know what their own needs are, tell the difference between right and wrong, and be able to dress and undress.
  
• Communication, language and literacy. Your child will learn to talk confidently and clearly, enjoying stories, songs and poems, hearing and saying sounds, and linking them to the alphabet. They will read and write some familiar words and learn to use a pencil.
  
• Mathematical development. Your child will develop an understanding of maths through stories, songs, games and imaginative play. They will become comfortable with numbers and with ideas such as 'heavier than' or 'bigger'. They will be aware of shapes and space.
  
• Knowledge and understanding of the world. Your child will explore and find out about the world around them, asking questions about it. They will build with different materials, know about everyday technology and learn what it is used for. They will find out about past events in their lives and their families' lives. They will find out about different cultures and beliefs.
  
• Physical development. Your child will learn to move confidently, controlling their body and handling equipment.
  
• Creative development. Your child will explore colours and shapes, trying out dance, making things, telling stories and making music.

[beatie]

I think the state pre-school would be better for your DS if it has a link to the primary school he'll eventually attend. I say this for the two reasons already mentioned. He'll perhaps move up to school with ready-made friends, plus, a similar structure and learning pattern will be set in place.

Does your DS have to attend all 5 mornings? My DD's pre-school is open 4 mornings per week and I only send her for 3.

[Hulababy]

My DD (3y5m) has been going to private daynursery since being about 5 months old. She still goes to one, 2 days a week. Like your say, dropinthe, she's settled there, has good friends, etc. DD won't be going to a state run school at all. She can't go. I work PT and on the days I work I am not there for the pick up/fdrop off. She'd have to have a child minder too...and I just can't be doing with the upheaval and hassle, not when she is so happy. Lots of children don't go the state nurseries linked to their reception schools. Yes, some may know each other at school as a result, but there will always be others who start later anyway. I am sure they are fine.

Both state and private nurserys follow the same early years developmental stuff, including the academic type stuff. But at this age it should be done through play, rather than sstructured learning.

[Wordsmith]

My DS1 went to day nursery from 6 months, 2 days a week. About a year before he started school I also sent him to the pre-school attached to the school, 2 mornings a week, so he could get to know his schoolmates. I also kept him at nursery as I needed to work those 2 days. It all worked out fine.

Are you saying that you have to do the five days if you go to the pre-school? I know some are like this - my DSs second choice school had a pre-school where you could do 5 sessions or nothing. I couldn't have done this as I need the 2 full nursery days.

Re what he is learning -I really wouldn't worry about it at this stage. Nurseries have a set pre-school curriculum to follow and you'll probably find that the term before school they'll do more 'academic's tuff, but my DS couldn't even write his name before he started school. You'll find once he goes to school he'll get the help you feel he needs - and it's only a few months away.

At this stage I would consider your child's social and emotional needs over and above his academic ones.

[dropinthe]

Oh, the confusion!
I know his nursery do follow The Early Learning goals iota listed.He is in a "pre-school room" and I think he is now doing what he would be doing in a pre-school.
I must admit I hadn't thought about him establishing his friendships of the future in whichever school I decided to send him to as was too concerned about disrupting the ones he has already made.He doesn't see any of his nursery peers outside of nursery as we live about 4 miles away in a "not so posh" part of South London.
No snobbery going on here-I had just heard good reports from people I used to work with who sent their children there so thought word of mouth the best form of advertising.

[iota]

dropin the - -I thought you were worried that the nursery aren't doing enough educationally -- that's why I posted the goals

Ds1 went to nursery right up until he went into Reception as I was working, and he did not know a single other child at the school -- it really wasn't a problem.

Having said that ds2 is sill at the same nursery part-time and I am going to send him to pre-scool 2 days a week so that he can get to know some of the children that he will go into Reception with.

[Enid]

no-one from dd1s pre school went to her primary school and it didnt matter a jot x E

[dropinthe]

Thats spot on Wordsmith! He can write his name but its only 4 letters long.He can recognise names of shops and I think the key to all this is for me to really work with the nursery about his development-his socials skills are fantastic-I'm off to see them this arvo.
Re pre-school attendance-I really don't know whether you HAVE to do 5 days or not-He gets so much out of being there on Wednesdays and Fridays and he spends the rest of the week split between my dh taking him places at the weekend when I am at work and with me on the other days of the week.I think it is working best for everyone at present and I can't see the point of changing.

[foxinsocks]

he'll have to move at some point for reception so it's really only worth moving him if the pre-school is where he goes to school (for the sake of moving him once). If convenience and cost are a factor then I would probably move him. If it's only schooling issues that concern you, I really wouldn't worry. They do very little other than play for most of reception and nursery anyway!

[dropinthe]

They SAY they construct the day round those goals-I'm just not seeing alot of evidence to support their claims.
I t hasn't helped that dh has had to take him to and from nursery for the last 2 months as I dislocated my knee so I haven't had any contact with them-dh just darts in and out again!

[Toothache]

I just don't understand what the dilemma is ( unless its a financial one). If he is happy there.... can write his own name (ds's is only 4 letters too!!!).... and can even recognise shop names... and you're not worried about his development.... then what are you worried about? Or am I just being dim and missing something???

[foxinsocks]

I would ask them for evidence if you are worried. My ds is almost the same age as yours (4 in November) and at his last term of pre-school (before he takes up his nursery place), they showed me a little chart that they had filled in against those Early Years Goals. I think for Ofsted they have to keep these sorts of records (not sure about that though).

Basically, it was in the form of a caterpillar and they coloured in different segments for each little stage he could do (so for 'communication', he had only a few segments coloured in with little comments like 'he is now happy to ask an adult to use the toilet' etc.).

I'm sure Asquith have to do this sort of thing.

[mumtosomeone]

mine have all done preschool/playgroup from 2.5 then a school nursery the term before starting school!
I know education is important. but learning to play, socialize be away from mum is all very important too.
The observation charts and achievment records are all very good, but arent always done in the way they should be!
If you have concerns about your childs development then have a word with the staff!

My ds starts on Fri and will do 2 mornings for a term then 3 and maybe go up to 4 or 5 depending on how he feels! then into nursery for the year before school

[bundle]

I'm with tootache on this one, it's all about learning through play at this age, reading & writing can wait (though early years does help in lead up to this, eg refining pencil-holding skills, working on shapes, expressing ideas, etc)

[Gomez]

From the other point of view DD1 has just started school, didn't attend the nursery attached to this school and REALLY notices (in the playground rather than in class)that most of the other children know each other. Out of around 60 kids almost 50 of them went to the Nursery. She is finding this difficult (as am I). I have found this surprising as DD1 is confident and has been in 'private' Nursery since around 8 months old for a number of days each week.

If I was making the choice again now I would have sent her to the school nursery at least for the pre-school year. (In Scotland and they get 'free' nursery education from when they are 3 until P1 at 4.5/5).

[mumtosomeone]

In what terms do you mean is private better?

[Skate]

Oh Gomez - don't tell me that!! Ds1 started today and he didn't go to the nursery!

[Enid]

Gomez he will be absolutely fine by next half term I promise

[dropinthe]

Toothache-think my dilemma is now more about him feeling accepted and "in place" at the pre-school of his primary school-its not a financial problem, although we do need the money-I was initially concerned about his development but upon reading some posts here I think he doing just fine.
I'm now concerned that he will feel left out when he starts school next September.

[Gomez]

Sorry Skate - they are all different thou' . And DD1 doesn't deal with it too well - she either retreats and does that standing at the side of the 'gang' twirling her hair and look sad thing OR storms in and assumes controls. Oh and I almost forgot 3rd approach is to repeat question again and again and again until someone gives in and answers her! Wee scone.

Enid my rationale head says this but Christ it is hard. In fact, four weeks in and things are improving but I still have fears that she is standing at the side of the play ground with no pals and I have made this happen by not buying her Tamagochi and allowing her to take it to school .

[mumtosomeone]

I think its personal choice. I like the idea of doing the pre school nursery in the school you hope they will attend as its nice for them to intergrate with the school and staff etc. but I am sure they settle even if they dont do this!
School seems more of a worry for us mums than the children!