Heard yesterday that one of my pupils passed his English GCSE - yet he can't read or write!

[Moomin]

Wondered what others think about this amid the 'dumbing down' discussions being banded around at the moment.

I joint-taught a group of kids who had been in the special needs and 'bottom band' classes throughout their school life. Several of them had statements and we always had a CSA in to help them in class. The boy in question is bright socially and a quick thinker but his dyslexia is so chronic that he can't recognise the majority of words and his written work is almost indecipherable. He was able to do his 4 pieces of coursework with limited help which we declared when his folder was requested by the board. His oral work was good and gained him a D grade. This made up 20% of his final mark; the written coursework also was worth 20%. Exam was 60%.

We did worry about how he'd cope in the exams, as he wasn't allowed a reader or writer for English, unlike other subjects. In the end, for the poetry papers, I just advised him to look for any words he did recognise and try to write about anything he remembered from the lessons. We knew the Reading paper would probably be beyond him but said it was worth him coming to the exam anyway just for the Writing section of the same exam which we thought he's cope with if he recognised any 'key' words and this could stimulate a piece of writing. Anyway, I heard yesterday he got a G, which is a pass after all.

[sassy]

Moomin - had to ask? Is this LS?

If so , what a result!

(Do you know how our other babs got on? Feel free to email me rather than through here if you'd rather.)

Hope you're all ok x

[Twiglett]

Personally I don't have an issue with a child with dyslexia trying so hard within the realms of what is allowed that he gains a passing grade. I think it proves he had excellent teaching staff and I would be over the moon for him.

[jayzmummy]

IMO you should give yourself a bloomin great pat on the back because without the wonderful support he has obviously received from you he wouldnt have done so well.

Why wasnt he allowed a scribe?

[Ameriscot2005]

Well done, him!

I don't see this as an example of dumbing down. English isn't just about reading and writing, and as you said, he is very bright and his oral work boosted his grade.

I hope he continues to get help for his dyslexia. It must be very frustrating for him to have this learning difficulty.

[Moomin]

That's what I was hoping for Twiglett! I (& Sassy) know that this lad has had a very difficult 5 yrs and has tried very very hard for much of it. I was just imagining the Daily Mail headlines! Trouble is, so many people don't actually know what goes into a GCSE these days and they just compare it to their own O levels or whatever. Like everything else, it's not clear cut at all. I personally think that the GCSEs now at least are a damn sight more interesting and varied than the awful dry O levels I did, though admittedly they don't put the same emphasis on grammar, spelling and punctuation.

Sassy - they all passed and yes, I was talking about LS! Will txt you with other results.

[bonym]

G is a pass????? Not disagreeing with you, but it wasn't in my day. What percentage mark would gain a G?

When I did O'levels, even though they were graded to F (I think), only A-C were recognised as "passes" IYSWIM.

[Moomin]

jayzmummy - because a large part of the English is reading & writing as skills rather than application of knowledge, so a scribe is not permitted.

[bonym]

God - I sound ancient ("in my day" ) - sorry, don't mean to be miserable but it's a bit of a hobby horse of mine (the fact that exams these days are so easy to pass).

[Moomin]

anything A to G is a pass. A 'good' pass is still A - C, which is what most employers/colleges look for still. In English piece of work are marked out of 54. You need to get at least 8 marks to achieve a G.

[Moomin]

bonym- have you seen any of the GCSE papers from recent years? Do you think they are easy from knowing the papers and comparing them to O levels or are you going from what you read about them in the papers? Not being arsey, just curious

[SleepyJess]

bonym.. yes G is a pass... GCSEs go from A - H and then ungraded.. and only ungraded is a fail. Bit different to CSEs.

I was in the first ever year of GCSEs. I got an F for maths... And France: Language & Culture if a remember rightly! Only the maths has come back to haunt me.. am now doing a degree.. and am going to have to improve on that if I ever seriously want to teach.. and rightly so!

SJ x

[SleepyJess]

Oh and Moomin.. also meant to say.. well done you..! He obviously had a great teacher and is able to have a feeling of pride that he passed this which is largely due to you! Dyslexia is bloody cruel.. all that knowledge and ability 'trapped' inside!

[moondog]

Hmmmmmmm,not that surprised unfortunately.
A relative of mine has just got 9 A* and a B.
Whilst I am delighted for her,can't help feeling that she ain't that bright......

[Moomin]

There's no H anymore SleepyJess

[SleepyJess]

Oh right sorry.. As I said I was among the first ever to do GCSEs.. way back when dinosaurs ruled the earth!

[sassy]

That's ace news Moomin. I'm so proud of them all - and of you and me and our other colleague. We worked damn hard for those kids!

[Moomin]

GCSEs were way in the future when I was at school! It was all GCEs and CSEs for my generation so you're not as prehistoric as me!

Trouble is with comparing O levels to GCSEs, I think the main difference is that the GCSE tests the application of skills rather than the retention of information or knowledge. I'd say you could get an English O level is you were good at grammar and could remember stuff parrot fashion, but an English GCSE (arguably) requires you to be more well-read. You certainly cover a very wide range of texts and media nowadays. Plus of course, there aren't the cut-off makr boundaries that there used to be, where only a certain pecentage each year can achieve an A /B / C etc. If you reach the required standard then you get the grade you deserve.

[SleepyJess]

Yes agree Moomin.. I found GCSEs to be primarily about the ability to write about what you thought about such and such.. putting your thoughts into words. Good for me because I can ramble for England... less good for anyone remotely dyslexic, where the parrot-fashion exams would probably suit them more.

My 13 y/old DS was assessed for dyslexia - but is thought not to have it - because as soon as he got into secondary (he's just about to start y9) they identified that so much more was going on in his head (in respect of English lessons really) than what he got down on paper. His writing is not great and his spelling is the pits! His English teacher says he has real flair and a writer's imagination.. it's just the getting it down on paper!

[bonym]

Moomin - a few months ago there were some questions from recent GCSE papers in the Sunday Times (I think). Some of them wree embarrassingly easy - ie. the clue to the answer was in the question, or they were multiple choice with the correct answer being the only sensible one. So yes - I have seen some questions ('tho admittedly not whole papers), and yes, the questions were much easier than O'level.
Having had the experience of interviewing graduates for office posts, it is depressing when they can't even structure a sentence correctly and are not that bright (these are graduates fgs!). A girl who used to work for me, who had a degress and whose mother was a teacher, couldn't spell some very simple words and used to write things such as "should of" instead of "should have", and used to drive me mad by saying have you rang Mr so-and-so instead of "rung".

[bonym]

Hmm - that should be "were" and "tho'" of course!! (One handed typing!)

[bonym]

I suppose I just find it hard to accept that an exam can be deemed to have been passed even though the candidate gets less than 50% of the questions correct. How is it right that someone can get more wrong answers than right answers and still get a pass? These days, someone can say that they have a GCSE in a subject when they've got a mark of less than 20% - that, to me, is ludicrous.

I got 8 O'levels, grade C or above, but actually also got 2 D grades - I didn't ever "count" the D grades: if I was asked how many I had I said 8, and this was common practice then. Btw I'm not that old (39 yesterday ).

[Tortington]

great! theres hope for my lazy arse son yet

[paolosgirl]

I'm all for recognising ability, but I do have a problem with the feeling that children shouldn't fail at exams. The real world still expects a word to be spelt correctly and the proper grammar to be used, and although I'm all for more interesting subjects, they should be backed up with higher standards in the core, basic subjects.
And totally agree with the idea that less than a C should not be counted as a pass. 20 odd years ago I got a D in my physics - I failed, end of story!

[SleepyJess]

But people can and do fail GCSEs!

[bonym]

Agree paolosgirl - there seems to be a culture that children are not allowed to fail as it is bad for their self-esteem! Whilst I am all for boosting self-esteem, this unfortunately does not prepare them for the real world of work. These days, you can't take it for granted that someone who has a degree is more able, or brighter than average, and I personally know one ot two teachers who are actually not that bright (which really scares me tbh).

When I go to parents evening and see that dd1's teacher has written "excellant", not once, but several times, on her work, it really winds me up. Why are the basics being ignored?