Arggh buyer being "difficult"- opinions and advice needed before replying!

[thritbies]

I sold some candles on ebay, and this buyer purchased 4 of one product from me. Each costs £3 new, as these were. She got all 4 for £1.98- no problems so far.

I had previously sold more of said items singularly for 99p with postage of £1.50, thus for all 4 I charged a total price of £5, which to me already offered a discount. She then after winning asked me for a discount- I said I would see what I could do re what it actually cost to post. It cost £2.51. I offered a £1 refund, thinking it reasonable to split the difference but me to keep slightly more. She thinks this is unreasonable. I am clueless as to what is a reasonable discount for combined postage- another seller bought 4 of the same items from me for £10 each with £10 postage and was happy to accept £1 refund.

She also has said that the items arrived in a royal mail bag with a note apologising for damage. Claims 2 parts of one of the items are cracked- this would not affect the use of the item in any way ( basically its the container that is cracked, the wax product is taken out to be burnt). She is now asking for a breakdown in costs as she says packaging costing £1.50 and not protecting her items is not good enough. I have sent another 2 packages identical to hers which arrived safely. We are obviously both pissed off- what should I do?!

TIA if you got this far AND made head or tail of it all

[madamez]

If the note apologising for the damage was from the royal mail then one of you should have a claim against the royal mail for damage in transit. If she didn't want to pay more than £2 for postage then I don't see how she can expect fancier postage than a jiffy bag, which has clearly been adequate in packing similar items previously.

[thritbies]

Cheers madamez- I did offer optional insurance on all my auctions, which appeared on the invoice, and which she chose not to take me up on. I wonder if she would have been bothered had the item not been cracked- of course I only have her word for it. Maybe I should suggest she return the cracked product to me at her own expense and then I will refund 25% of the remaining £1.50 she is quibbling over?!

[MsPontipine]

Hi - Have been in deep thought over this!! Seeing as your parcel cost £2.52 to post I would consider the charge of £4 (ie reduced by £1, total reduction £2) pretty reasonable, had the items arrived with the buyer in perfect condition.
However as this was not the case and items arrived damaged - I know you say it's not the candle that's damaged but the container but the buyer is justified in expecting entire items to be in perfect condition unless otherwise described in the listing. You don't know - she may have wanted them for gifts or something. I know if I am wanting to buy something in a shop I will definately ask for discount if packaging/box is damaged. Who wants to pay the same price for a damaged item as a pristine shiney perfect item??

If I were you I would offer a further couple of pounds as an act of good will (Total discount therefore being £4) If you really believe you packed your package up so safely and securely your items couldn't possibly have got damaged in transit then put in a claim with Royal Mail.

That's what I would do

[thritbies]

Ok- please can someone have a look at my intended reply and tell me if it is adequate/inadequate/tw*tty (delete as appropriate)

TIA

I am sorry you are disappointed with the refund. I have sent out another 2 packages identical to yours which have been received securely. It is unfortunate that Royal Mail damaged your package. I was satisfied with the security of your package, and even double checked it with the post master. The note from RM apologising would seem to compound this. I can assure you that the exterior of the stacker being cracked- or indeed the wax if that was what you meant- will not affect the wax when it is burnt. Had I used a box to send the item the postage would have been more, and there would be no refund to give.

Originally I listed all stackers separately with a starting price of 99p, and charged £1.50 for postage. I decided to list my remaining stackers in pairs, as for use as melts I thought using 2 of the same fragrance would give a better burn- this is just what I would recommend when using the product. Thus by quoting £2.50 per auction lot for postage I was already reducing my anticipated cost. When posting and finding the cost much less than quoted, I was also happy to give the refund stated. Please note for future reference that the postage was my standard rate, and that you are able to request insurance- in this case this would have enabled one of us to claim against RM. Invariably accidents do happen in the post, and I am bemused (and relieved!)that I have managed to send several large and delicate glass holders without breakages.

I am not a commercial seller, just a parent trying to make some money. I am proud of my feedback and want to preserve it. If you have a look you will see me to be a fair and reasonable seller- if items are damaged or missing when I come to post then I refund them but usually still send them, or a replacement item to the buyer as a goodwill gesture. I am happy to refund you a further 75p, and of course you are welcome to return the damaged item to me.

I hope this is helpful in explaining my position to you.

Regards

[thritbies]

x posts there MsPontipine! I appreciate your input and do see what you mean. Have just read above intended note to buyer to dh- he thinks it is "tw*tty" but deservedly so!

Does the further info change your mind any? Or should I offer the other £1.50 instead of 75p, thus charging her for postage only and no packaging at all? Cannot believe I am putting all this thought into a couple of quid- but every couple of quid counts to us atm, hence why I am selling products for below face value.

btw she thinks I am a man- do you think this has any bearing on things?!

[thritbies]

pleeeeaaassse

[MsPontipine]

Hiya - Such deep musings for so late at night! I know - I sometimes ponder for ages about what to do. Like you - I'm an amateur seller - I enjoy Ebaying, have had minimal negative experiences and believe I provide a pretty good service and am proud of my hard earned feedback!

The woman question - yes quite possibly I think! She may feel more of an affinity with you if she knew you're a woman too. Possibly feel nore sympathetic than wronged.

The main issue is the damage of the items for which I do think deserves recompense. The P+P she paid was the price you had originally set as the cost to safely transport her items. It was up to you to get those items to her in one perfect piece. As for offering extra insurance for buyer to pay for - for these small priced items we're selling that's pretty unnecessary seeing as Royal Mail covers package up to £32 as long as you got proof of postage, which as a good seller on Ebay you should always obtain.

In this case if I were you I would bite the bullet and refund as I said before.

Possibly other sellers wouldn't, but it's clear by your ponderings and your post that you care about the service you provide

But it's up to you!!

[thritbies]

Thanks MsPontipine, I appreciate it- especially so late at night lol

Think I will send the note as above, but change parent for mum, and 75p for £1.50. Thanks for your advice

Oh re the proof of postage, a quick q- is a receipt listing all the prices for posting adequate proof, or should it be an individual proof?

[MsPontipine]

Not sure with a mutiple receipt - My Post Ofice does each seperately and writes addressees' house number and post code on it. Labourious I know but worth it - I have had one parcel go astray and Royal Mail refunded (the price Ebay buyer paid) no probs at all.

Keep up the good work xx

Night!!

[thritbies]

Ta! Night night (and thanks again)

[laura032004]

You can ask the PO for a 'certificate of posting'. You can put up to 10 different items on this at once. I then tell the PO that I don't need the individual receipts. The COP is easier for me to fill in at home. I just put name, house number and postcode on them. I think you will probably get a refund from RM with just the receipt, but it's much easier with the COP.

I would say this bit is wrong:

Please note for future reference that the postage was my standard rate, and that you are able to request insurance- in this case this would have enabled one of us to claim against RM.

You don't need to have had insurance to make a claim. You can always claim for 100 times the price of a first class stamp (not sure if it's the price of a second class stamp if it's 2nd class).

Were they just in a jiffy bag? I'm surprised you haven't had more break if you just put them directly into a jiffy bag with no other wrapping. I'd improve your wrapping, and stand firm on your postage charge. If you don't say you offer combined P&P, and they don't ask prior to buying, they have no right to expect it. Next time you go to the supermarket, raid the expensive fruit (strawbs, rasps, organic apples etc) and mushrooms for bubble wrap. I usually pick up 10 sheets per visit. This would cost about £1 for three sheets to buy, so makes your wrapping look much better and worth the P&P, without any real extra weight, or more importantly, cost to you.

Personally, if something is broken, or whatever, I go all out to ensure a happy customer. I would refund the cost of the item in this case, possibly plus 25% of the P&P.

[sixlostmonkeys]

It's always worth having the rules (as such) at hand so as to make problems easier to deal with.
Any request to reduce or combine p&p after the sale does not have to be honored - but a good seller would do so when possible. I personally add 50p to the cost of the stamp (to cover packing) therefore if someone buys multiple items I simply weigh them all together and add 50p for packing and send a combined invoice - this sometimes reduces the p&p by as much as £5, £10, or £15 etc, but don't be tempted to split the difference; it's not fair and the buyer won't like it.

Always pack well (jiffy bags are useless) If the package can withstand an elephant standing on it then it should be fine.

Don't offer insurance as an 'option'. Insurance is for the seller's benefit not the buyer's. Even if they chose not to pay the extra (and anyone who knows how it works wouldn't) they will still get a refund should anything go wrong.

Stick to the rule of - if it arrives damaged, ask them to return it, check the damage is genuine, refund in full and then if appropriate claim from the RM.

[thritbies]

laura and six thanks for your comments. I took the bit about insurance out at MsP's advice, and I also refunded the £1.50 in respect of postage. There was bubble wrap in the jiffy bag, and it really doesnt make a difference to the product- I can only liken it to the envelope being ripped, the cracked bit is totally superfluous. Also it isnt the kind of thing you would give as a present- I know I'm being cryptic here! Anyway, will await her reply. I dont know what I will do if she asks for further money, I'm already out of pocket. I do think she's taking the p.

btw I didnt offer combined postage in the auctions and several buyers asked for it and were given it. six are you saying I should automatically include insurance in my postage price? Interesting. Oh well, it's given me something to think about for next time.

Thanks for your advice guys

[sixlostmonkeys]

re insurance - you can either include it in the p&p upfront or just use standard post and claim for up to £32 or stand the losses yourself.
I have a limit that I am prepared to stand myself. Over that limit it gets sent recorded. Like I say, it's for your benefit not the buyer's.

I have a feeling she won't take kindly to your reply (tho hopefully I'm wrong) so maybe your only option will be to ask her to return and then refund her in full.
fingers crossed for you

[thritbies]

Evening all, a wee update and a happy ending! Got quite a pleasant message back saying she understood, in a similar position to me, and thanks for explaining, then she left FAB feedback! So you were right MsP re the woman thing! Had another PITA buyer who also left glowing feedback, strangely enough! Thanks everyone for your help.

[MsPontipine]

Excellent news - glad everyone's happy. Now you can go forth with your lovely feedback and conscience intact to make your lovely Ebay fortune!!