progesterone tests and clomid - please help

[blueberry79]

my doctor has just done a day 22 progesterone test on me which he says shows low progesterone and that means i am not ovulating (i don't know the actual result yet) so he wants me to go on clomid. But my temp chart shows a rise in temp post ovulation which i always understood to mean ovulation has taken place. i don't want to take clomid and wonder if anyone knows whether the prog test is as definitive as my doc seems to think....

[nomoremagnolia]

This happened to me, I had regular 29 day cycles with a temp rise in the middle for 18 months ttc, but doc said I didn't ov. Are your cycles regular and is day 22 7DPO? If not then test could be off. I was only monitored/tested for one cycle and put straight onto Clomid, which is OK (for me). I had a day 21 blood test on first cycle of Clomid and got levels indicating ov. Do you definitely not want to take Clomid?

[blueberry79]

to be honest i am a bit reluctant to take clomid (although not 100% sure why) - i have been seeing a chinese herbalist who specialises in fertility and am taking chinese herbs (revolting) and acupuncture in the hope that it will balance my hormones, drop my fsh and generally make me more fertile. she says that she can see i ovulate from my temp chart but now doc says i'm not. she also seems quite pleased with my temp chart which now definitely has two phases - ie low then high - the first chart was fairly uniform.

i think blood test was dpo9 but difficult to tell exactly when O was.

so difficult to know who to believe and turn to - doc things chinese medicine is "mumbo jumbo". ultimately am not sure i care what works as long as something does!

[blueberry79]

btw - its great that you are not ov'ing.....but how does the doc know that you now ov - does he test? and has your temp chart changed at all since you took clomid?

[blueberry79]

oops - last post was meant to read "it's great that you are NOW ov'ing" - sorry

[looneytune]

Hi

I don't know about these things but know I'm having the same test soon. The problem is, I've only had 1 cycle since I came off the pill, this is my 2nd. Last cycle was 32 days long but as I've only just come off the pill, I don't know what my 'normal' cycles would be iyswim. I explained this to the Dr when she mentioned testing at CD21 as she mentioned based on a 28 day cycle. She recommended I do it at maybe CD24 then. Sooooo, my THOUGHTS are that if they don't pick the right day to do the blood test then how can they know whether it's NON OVULATION or WRONG DAY????

Anyway, I've been totally useless there haven't I But at least it puts this threads in my list of threads so I can keep an eye out for a better response!

BTW, I don't know about Clomid (as I'm having tests for totally different reason) but I would say that if it doesn't cause horrible side effects/risks then it's worth trying!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What was the progesterone level result?. A level of 30 or over would indicate ovulation.

You can have a rise in temp in the second half of your cycle when an egg has not been shed. Charting as a result is not infallible - you need to look at blood test results to get an accurate picture.

The progesterone result is only part of it - you need a blood test earlier in your cycle to compare the level of LH against that of FSH. You say that your FSH is high - how do you know this?.

What are your cycles like generally speaking?. If they are irregular I would seek medical advice sooner rather than later.

You need a diagnosis of the problem first and foremost - clomid is often prescribed to women with ovulatory issues. I would not take clomid without a diagnosis first off. If something like PCO (polycystic ovaries) is the root cause of the subfertility then clomid should be taken with a degree of caution and under gynae (not GP) supervision.

I would be wary re the chinese herbalist as well - some of these herbs can do more harm than good when it comes to ovulation problems and that industry is poorly regulated. If you did want to go down this route I would suggest you instead seek out a properly qualified medical herbalist.

[buttercupbabe]

Hi blueberry. I have been through months of blood tests for progesterone and you really have to be careful when you go for them. If you go too early you risk getting a low result which could be read that you aren't ovulating even if you really are. Even though I was ovulating (and it took a couple of months blood tests to prove this)I was prescribed clomid (I have a short luteal phase). The clomid gave me no side effects but very high prog levels and didn't lengthen my luteal phase. I stopped using it after 2 cycles. I am now seeing a private consultant who was shocked that I had been prescribed it in the first place as I ovulate on my own. I think you need to have a couple of months blood results to get a better picture. Also about charts - my consultant does think that they are useful. My charts have always given me a good picture of what is happening in my cycle when compared with blood results. I really hth and please don't get fobbed off with clomid like I was unless it really is proven that you don't ovulate.

[blueberry79]

Thank you for all your messages - the truth is I don't yet know my prog result as he won't give it to me over the phone but he says its low and that I am not ov'ing so i guess that means less than 30. I have had two previous prog test in 2005 and 2006 and both results were around 40.

My FSH is very high at 19.8, LH is OK (8.3). My inhibin B (a measure of ovarian reserve) is also very low at 8.7 and should be >45. So a fairly gloomy outlook re fertility - 'peri-menopausal' per my docs notes. Am 38.

Otherwise regular-ish cycles (24-28 days) with a LP of 12.

I just think that after one low prog test to go for clomid seems like a big leap as it may just be a one-off anov cycle (which is not unusual at my age I believe) rather than a trend. The doc i am referring to is a gynae of some note so he should know what he's up to I suppose, but he did say he prescribes clomid at least once an hour and I have read in many places that it is wildly overprescribed. I don't know why i don't like clomid but i just don't like the idea of flogging my ovaries if they are already a little on the weak/old side.....or am i just being silly? Did you have any nasty side effects from clomid.

The chinese lady I am seeing is a medical doc aswell as a qualifed herbalist and somehow I like her approach. she gets amazing results - including those with high fsh and who have been through cycles and cycles of ivf with no luck.

[buttercupbabe]

I had no side effects. The consultant said I shouldn't have been put on it as it could over stimulate the ovaries and also cause a multiple pregnancy.

[blueberry79]

anniemac - how short is short?

[blueberry79]

hmm - that is a little low i think but 18 months is a long time to wait!

has he suggested anything else in meantime - certain nutritional approaches and herbs (eg agnus castus) can help, but prob worth consulting a qualified herbalist.

[blueberry79]

how miserable for you anniemac - nothing worse than an ignorant and unsympathetic gp (especially one that forgets he is not a specialist but rather a filtering system for the specialists!)

acu definitely known to help with stress and lp defect so it's great that you are doing that. have been told yoga is also good. good luck with it

[blueberry79]

anniemac - here's a link for you. www.thefertilesoul.com/Diagnosis/Luteal/ I read this woman's book when I got my initial test results was told by the doc I was perimenopausal and decided to go for acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine and it made me feel a lot more positive and in control about what I could do (although it would appear it only takes a doctor telling me I'm not ov'ing to shake my resolve to tackle things non-medical approach - it annoys me how much power they have over us!)

[mummy2olivia]

YAY!! glad I found this thread!! My friend has just had day 21 blood tests that show a progesterone level of 23 which she has been told shows no ov. She has been referred to Leicester Royal but has also been taking her temps- these show she ovulates on day 22 but CD1 starts somewhere between day 24 and day 35. I always thought that a temp rise showed definite ovulation. Her cycles are irregular which is definitely a problem. Oh, and she never gets a smiley face on her digital ovulation test. It's really bizarre. She is in shock but also very confused and the GP is naff all help.

[walrus]

Never did a temp chart, had progesterone tests that were so low that looking back it would make you laugh. Took Clomid and profasi and have dd 11 and ds 10. It's not easy at the time. Being told that you are unlikely to have children is one of the most horrendous experiences of my life. However, did get through it. Took all drugs and help that was offered. Hope this offers you some hope.

[walrus]

BTW has polycycstic ovary syndrome

[walrus]

sorry, meant 'have'

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Walrus

I certainly know what you mean when you write about low progesterone levels. In my case my LH/FSH levels were due to PCOS. Was not given clomid as was not suited to take it due to high LH levels (clomid stimulates production of LH).

Temp charts and opk's are a waste of time when PCOS is diagnosed so did not use either method. Instead went for diathermy surgery due to a further diagnosis of endometriosis.

[buttercupbabe]

Hi anniemac, I also encountered the gp's who didn't believe in the short Lp and was told to 'relax'. Thankfully my consultant agrees that an LP of anything less than 10 days is a problem. Have a look on the thread Beena started entitled Luteal phase 11 days but spotting from day 8- is this a problem.... I have written about the treatment I'm going to start on next cycle. So sorry to hijack this but really hope I can help anniemac

[walrus]

PCOS is a bummer. Still have to trim my moustache every other day. Hope things turned out ok for you Attila