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Problems with dd vs cm children

(52 Posts)
unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 21:18:14

Today I had one nine year old mindee. Plus my dd who is nearly ten and her friend who is nearly 11.

These three play really well and are normally easy to mind. Until today.

Today I had an extra child who is four and has learning difficulties.

I explained before hand to the elder kids about his special needs and that they must to be kind to him. My dd and her friend had met him before. The friend said 'but he's annoying and interrupts us when we play.' I told them that I expected them to play nicely.

So three kids run round all morning....screaming laughing and having a good time. Then the little one arrives and instead of being kind the three big ones were really mean. Not hurting him, but running away from him, and telling him to be quiet. Now I never once told them to be quiet in the morning...but anyway.

Fast forward to this evening elder mindee throws away something of the younger child's....think something like a painting, which the little one valued.

I told off the elder child. 10 mins later the elder child disappears and my dd came to tell me that he'd gone.

We went after him and caught up with him, and had a good chat. He said he can't cope with being told off. I went through all the...you should tell us if you go out of the garden ( do I need to complete an accident report or an incident report???)

The parent arrived and I explained the whole situation. She told him off for leaving and talked to him about the rest when they got home. But now he's saying he doesn't want to come if the little one is here.

I know the friend is always trying to get the little one in trouble...He said this rude word etc. My dd seems unable to tolerate the little one either but I thought that was just peer pressure from the friend

I don't know whether to do for the best. I don't want to let anyone down, but neither do I want a repeat of today or unhappy mindeees or dd

I'm so disappointed in my dd, because she didn't support or stand up for the little one. I'm so cross with her I can't speak to her and have given her the cold shoulder all evening, but I know this needs addressing.
But I don't know what to do for getting best.

Can anyone help with a bit of advice? what should I do?

Why am I feeling so shit? I feel like I've let all four of the kids down.
Not my finest day childminding sad

Karoleann Sat 21-Sep-13 21:31:50

You can't expect 3 9-11 year olds to play with a 4 year old. They don't have similar interests, I'm not surprised that the 9 year old doesn't want to come back tomorrow.

I don't expect my 5 and 7 year olds to entertain my 2 year old.

Why didn't you spend the time with The 4 year old. I can't really think of a good way of putting this, but you're the one that's being paid to mind the 4 year old, not your daughter. It's her weekend and she should have some relaxing time, not feeling obliged to look after a much younger child with special needs.

nkf Sat 21-Sep-13 21:35:55

Don't have the friend around when the little one is there. If she is mean to him, then it will make your life harder. So, it would be the older mindee and your daughter who get on well? They can have a nice time together and you can look after the four year old.

unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 21:39:33

Thank you for replying. I was out there with them too, but the little one wants to play with his friends. That how he sees them because of his difficulties he doesn't have many friends of his own.

I wasn't expecting them to mind him.

It's just the little things, ike raising up the swings so that the little one can't get on it even if they aren't using it. Iyswim

I am sorry, but who is the childminder? Your dd? The mindees?

Or, novel thought, YOU?

It seems absurd that you call yourself a childminder, and just let the kids run riot and expect them to mind a child more than half their age. Is this not your job?

unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 21:44:16

Is that how it comes across?

I am the cm and I'm in charge of the activities. But is it wrong for me to expect the older kids NOT to be nasty to the little one?

Maybe it just isnt a good idea to mind on Saturday when your dd just wants to play with friends, or have her friends over when you are child minding.

I think you need to decide whether Saturdays are a working day or a day off for you. Because I dont think you can mix business and leisure like this.

No, tabby, if you are there they should be nice! Raising the swing is plain mean. Otoh, probably the big ones needed one kind of activity ( park/ board games/ karaoke) and the littlie needed play doh- it's not an easy age gap to share activities.

nkf Sat 21-Sep-13 21:49:25

They shouldn't be mean. Definitely not. Tricky age gap though.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Sat 21-Sep-13 21:51:49

Quint have you posted a single post that hasn't been a criticism - and 99% of the time unwarranted?? I have been biting my tongue over it, but for god sake - give it a rest.

unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 21:52:19

Okay I get the business and pleasure thing..... But the bare bones is that one business child doesn't want to come if the business child with special needs is there.

Can't separate them out because I can't be in two places at one time and if they are together the little one wants to play with the older one and my dd. How do I make the little one understand he can't play with them when they are sharing the same garden?

Isabeller Sat 21-Sep-13 21:53:28

It sounds as if, very unfortunately, this group of individuals have conflicting needs at the moment. You know best whose needs come first and what the appropriate mix is. It would be equally valid to prioritise the older (established?) group or the younger child but I think you are going to have to say to someone that you're not in a position to provide the right environment for their child at the moment much as you would like to do so.

Good luck.

unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 21:55:02

Also how is it fair on dd not to have her friends over while I'm working. It's her home too.

But if the second mindee does not want to come, then this is perhaps a problem for the parents to deal with?

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Sat 21-Sep-13 21:57:48

UM - I would tell DD that she will not be having any friends over until she can prove that she can behave herself.

Of course the younger one wants to play with the others and it was only for the afternoon! I think I would have tried to divide the afternoon up into quarters so the girls could go off and do something else for 2 quarters and do somethings you could all do for the other 2 quarters, alternating. Not easy with the age gap, but possible.

I wouldn't be dictated to by a 9 yo. It's up to his Mum whether she sends him or not when you have the 4 yo - it's not a decision you have to make.

I would also ensure she has told him that his behaviour is unacceptable and that on top of whatever punishment you see fit to dole out, he will be punished at home if he is mean to the smaller mindee. It is up to her to make sure he understands that he is to do as he is told.

As for 'he can't cope with being told off' hmm About time he learnt then isn't it, little sod.

nkf Sat 21-Sep-13 21:57:55

You might have to let one of the business children go.

Sorry to derail, just a quick note to ChippingIn. I dont know. I have not kept track of threads where you and I both "meet". I know for a fact that I don't only post criticism. But if you have happened to only see me on threads where I am critical, then that is unfortunate.

I also work from home, and even if it is my childrens home, it does affect them. If I have deadlines, and have to work evening or on the weekend, this means that they dont have friends over. Or they have to be more quiet. Usually my husband take them out somewhere if I need peace and quiet. Even if it is a childs home, work sometimes must come first.

Floralnomad Sat 21-Sep-13 22:03:01

The 9 yr old mindee not wanting to come is not your problem its his parents and its for them to decide whether they send him or not . It does come across like you just dumped them in the garden ,as if you were out there supervising the 4 yr old the bigger ones surely wouldn't have been being mean ( and wouldn't be able to tamper with the swing ) . With that age mix you need to entertain the 4 yr old and at that age even with SN I'm sure he can appreciate that the bigger children want to play things that he can't be involved with .

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Sat 21-Sep-13 22:03:34

That is DD's doing though. She was allowed to have her friends over, until they proved themselves unable to be kind to a small child. Therefore until she proves herself again that priviledge has been withdrawn.

Childminding does mix family & business - it's the nature of the beast.

I don't know how you need to explain it to this particular child (as I'm not sure what his sn's are) but in general I just say 'We can play with the Big Girls later on, right now they are playing Big Girls games and so we are going to do xyz'. I know he's young and he has SN's but he can't have it all his way either - a bit of give & take from all of the children! (whilst still not accepting any unkind behaviour from the older ones!).

unforgettablememories Sat 21-Sep-13 22:08:03

This afternoon we spent two hours outside on a trip, and two hours at home. In the two hours we were out they spent the time running away from him, which he thought was hilarious but I could hear the comments

Then we came home. I built a castle with him then be wanted to play with the bigger kids. Then they started the monkey business with the swings. So I said ' don't do that, that's not kind'

Then me and the little one sent indoors and did colouring. Then he wanted to payout with the bigger ones, so they invented a game that involved kicking the ball AT him. It was a lightweight ball, and rougher than I would have liked but he loved it and they were enjoying themselves.

Then littleones wanted to watch tv for last hour, he was getting tired from all that running, and it was at this point that the item was thrown away...and it all kicked off.

I will betting a padlock on the back gate tomorrow. It has a stiff bolt high up so it's secure for tbe little ones, a have always allowed the bigger ones a bit more freedom, they ride outside. But if onewent off the consequences is that I can't trust him with that freedom, and he'll have to stay in the garden while dd and her friend ride outside. Killer is the four year old will probably be in that garden too!

ICameOnTheJitney Sat 21-Sep-13 22:09:29

I don't think you can leave a 4 year old with the bigger children at all...I don't. When my 9 year old DD has friends, I engage my 5 year old in something else or they'll exclude her.

It's not "nice" no but it is very natural. They don't want to tailor their play and conversation to suit a little one....and why should they?

if the 4 year old were mine I would be annoyed that you were not engaging with him...keeping him close by you. He's too young to run around larger kids without you present...and he needs activities which engage.

nkf Sat 21-Sep-13 22:10:37

They are being mean and I suspect some of the older mindee's reluctance to come is due to the fact the little boy has special needs.

It was a bad day and you need to plan some other strategies. But don't be so hard on yourself. The fact you care so much and are thinking so much means you want to do a good job.

nkf Sat 21-Sep-13 22:12:11

He wasn't left by the sound of it.
OP, i think you might do better posting in the cm category. Then you'd get specific advice. People seem to have decided you spent the day watching TV while your daughter was in charge.

Floralnomad Sat 21-Sep-13 22:12:41

It does sound like you should just tell the little one that the older ones don't want to play and that's that . The more you post the more it sounds like they're just abusing his good nature ! The older ones ,including your daughter all need a good talking to about how you should treat other people ,they sound really nasty .

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