Really worries me just how many women end up with 3/4th degree tears...

[puccaupunderthemistletoe]

I had a 3rd degree tear almost 3 years ago, and actually thought it was quite a rare thing tbh, but have noticed lately (and in talking to different women) just how many women have gone through this.

My delivery was fairly normal until the end when i wasn't told to pant when the head was crowning hence dd shot out like a cork and i got badly damaged.

Why is this happening so frequently? why are women not prompted to do pelvic floor exercises MORE (if that does help who knows) and most importantly...why are women not forewarned about this? i have never read a single thing on this subject in any book or magazine i have bought, i did ask a MW once why it is a taboo subject and was told...."if women knew before hand they could end up incontintent none of them would have natural deliveries)

This subject makes me very as i found it quite horrific tbh.

[uwila]

"why are women not forewarned about this?"

Because then more women would be requesting (demanding) sections, and that's not good for the stats or the budget. So they leave us in the dark and then when it goes wrong they just say "oh yes, that's normal" And the woman is left sitting there thinking Eh? Youknoew this and didn't tell me?!?!?!?!

And then they shovel you out the door and tell you there are no resources to fix the problem. The good old NHS...

[blueshoes]

pucca, I have the same impression as you, that more women have 3rd/4th degree tears/incontinence than we are advised about.

My antenatal and NCT class did not mention it. At my VBAC clinic, I asked the midwife pointblank (after reading eyewatering stories on mn) and she told me in her experience, only 1% of women experience this. I disbelieved that as I knew anecdotally that 30-50% of women who I knew had traumatic highly interventionist births.

I went elective and was never happier, intact perineum and all. At least I knew what I was going to get.

[puccaupunderthemistletoe]

Thankyou for replying.

Blueshoes...i also went elective section 2nd time around for the exact same reason as you, i knew what i was getting so to speak, and of course a section is no easy option but i found the recovery much better tbh.

[expatinscotland]

I was never told any of this. Had a forceps delivery and episiotomy.

Gotta admit, things were never the same down there, despite all the pelvic floor exercises in the wrold.

I have to get my diaphram up there, and was pretty familiar w/my body before I had kids, and I can swear it's awfully thin in spots up there, painfully so.

[puccaupunderthemistletoe]

Uwila...That is very true, infact i only found out the degree of my tear on my discharge notes nobody explained anything to me what so ever.

When i was pregnant with my dd (who i suffered the 3rd degree tear having) i thought the worst thing was having a episiotomy, made me cringe just thinking about that...if only i knew what could go very wrong and which infact did.

[DoesntChristmasDragOn]

Babies are bigger
More women are "made" to give birth on their backs - epidurals haven't helped here I would imagine....

I had a 3rd degree tear with DS1 and 2 subsequent natural deliveries with no problems (smaller babies and not on my back).

[puccaupunderthemistletoe]

I would just love to know exactly why this happens so much and for what reason (statistics).

[DoesntChristmasDragOn]

There is more intervention - episiotomies apparently can cause bad tears as they just carry on IYSWIM.

[lanismum]

interesting about the episiotomies sometimes causing bad tears, i had a third degree tear with dd 21 months ago, and am due with number 2 in april, when i asked the consultant about an elective section, she said oh no, we will just cut you?? i cant see how cutting me would be any better than tearing, would have thought the end result is similar, am dreading giving birth.

[expatinscotland]

b/c cutting your vagina open is cheaper than performing a csection.

that's why.

and it's not her pelvic floor that will be affected.

[morningpaper]

kama: I really disagree, your argument is basically that it is women's own fault

Without statistics comparing year on year it is impossible to have this debate - we are just happy to reinforce our own prejudices again and again. Without statistics we can make this mean anything we want.

[expatinscotland]

I listened to my body, and it was literally writhing in pain and wanted to DIE, yes DIE b/c the pain was so bad.

I wanted pain relief and if I hadn't gotten it I'd have happily topped myself to be free from the pain.

It drove me to blind panic.

W/DD2, I was too far gone for pain relief - and again, my panic rose to such heights that I very narrowly missed having to have another episiotomy. I was going into shock.

But I dont' see how that is my body's fault? It was just doing what was its own response to extreme pain - that is to try to shut down and die.

[choosyfloosy]

Truly I think that professionals can't win. If they sat us down at statutorily arranged pre-pregnancy classes for all women over 16 and listed all the possible complications, negatives and disasters that can possibly happen with the entire experience of childbearing, leaving us with a packet of 3 and a leaflet on the way out, would that really be better?

Half the time they are being harangued for encouraging too many c-sections, half the time for pushing natural birth (as it were). TBH nature doesn't give a shit about us as individuals, provided a reasonable proportion of us somehow manage to have a few live births and feed them for long enough to start chewing bark.

Sorry to sound portentous, smug and NHS-y (I can see that I do). Optimum health is in my view an illusion.

[expatinscotland]

I think it's also that b/c of budget constraints, women can't have the birth that they feel is right for them, be it elective Csection, elective early epidural, doulas, walking around, water birth, etc.

The one size fits all approach doesn't work well when it comes to birth, so you get a lot of problems, unfortunately.

I had to beg for my epidural. My baby was back to back and it hurt so much it wasn't true.

[lanismum]

i am hoping to get another appointment after christmas to discuss how this baby is going to be born, i know a c section is drastic, and has risks, and that i will still be in pain after, but i honestly cant see how it will be any worse than what i went through last time, the consultant tried to tell me 'someone would go through what will happen when you are 36 weeks'!! thats leaving things a bit late i would have thought........

[blueshoes]

lanismum, most electives are scheduled for 39+ weeks, assuming no special complications. It was only around 36-37 weeks that I got my cs date booked in, but I attended 2 VBAC clinics prior to that, the first one at around 32 weeks.

It is such a pain to be left drifting until 36 weeks, not knowing whether you will be able/should have an elective. Don't let the consultant get away with those vague words. I would press to make a firm appointment to speak to someone now, ideally well before 36 weeks. Just keep pushing. Be firm. Don't let them fob you off.

[lanismum]

thanks blueshoes, thats good to know, thats exactly what i hate, the not knowing, i wish they could just tell me one way or another.

[choosyfloosy]

sorry, have been imagining ever since that previous post the flaming i wd get - haven't dared read - it was very horrible and very insensitive and i'm sorry