Advice appreciated - extremely aggressive child

[cupcakesinthesnow]

Hi

I put this in bullying but it's not really bullying more persistant aggressive behaviour but anyway...

A child in ds's class Year 3 has been on a 'programe' as the teachers put it since reception. He is extremely aggressive physically (big child for his age and getting bigger)and swears constantly. He is disruptive in class and is mostly allowed to do as he likes as the teaching staff do not want to 'rile' him by asking gim to sit down and do as told. he gets 'extra playtimes' as ds put it where he is taken out to the playground by a TA inbetween playtimes to run around in an attempt to stop his aggressive behaviour and disruption in the class.

He physically hurts children every week. Unfortunaly both my children have been his victims in the last 2 weeks alone casuing me to come and speak to the head and now demand something is done. I have told them I am no longer comfortable with sending my children to the school as the number of incidences regrding this a child alone are getting beyond ridiculous. I personally feel the school does not have the facilities to help him (he is not statemented and does not have a daily extra TA for him alone although sees someone once a week)

The aggressive incidence are getting more and more worrying. I have now asked the head just how badly doesn another child have to be hurt before action is taken.

The language he uses is completely unnacceptable for a 7 year old and although Im= may sound like I want to wrap my own children in cotton wool, I dont - I just resent my 7 year old being told be is a ucking ucker almost everyday (and it is not just my child hence the reason I am not saying my child is being bullied as it's more general to all the children)

The child swears at the teachers and TA's and has even told the TA he will punch her *ucking face in on a number of occasions.

Am I being precious in thinking this is unreasonable behaviour?!

I personally feel the child needs special help and I do not think he is goingto get that at a mainstream school and I do resent that my children welfare is at risk while he stays at this school. I know many other parents who feel the same and are getting increasinly worried as the child is very big and strong and is getting bigger and therefore the injuries sustained by children he hurts are getting worse.

I know the school are treading carefully as there are issues at home, but surely if they have tried for 3 years with this boy and things are not getting better but worse and more dangerous for other children in the school, they need to re think things?

IMO the school have a duty of care and if I and other parents have strong concerns for our children while they are at school due to this child, then surely they are failing us and the boy concerned.

What should I do? What can I do, if anything?

[thelunar66]

I'd be tempted to move my children to another school.

I was bullied and beaten by an aggressive boy in primary school and it affected me into my adulthood.

I wish my mum had just moved me away.

[cupcakesinthesnow]

I am considering that although DH makes the point that 'there are aggressive nasty kids everywhere'. I know that but I do think this child and the school are not doing enough. Another problem is that they only moved to the school last year and having to move schools (as we had moved house) was really hard for my eldest child who has now made some really lovely friends.

I feel angry that a child like this is allowed to all intents and purpose, continue to terrorise the school - children and staff it seems and seems untouchable to be stopped

[mummag]

oh my goodness, this is soooooo similar to my problem i could have written this, i have posted about it too. I am sorry i share your concerns and frustration and i am in a similar school doing nothing situation. I am seriously considering changing schools, but my problem is that i can get a place for my son but not my daughter, which is not in any way ideal. I agree that it is ridiculous that our kids who arent aggressive should have to be moved when surely the simpler thing would be to get this child proper help and keep him away from our kids. I would be very interested to see if you get anywhere and shall be watching for any updates. You are not in stafford are you by any chance as you really really could be me!!!!

[NanaNina]

Cupcake - i do feel for you. However I can see the problem for the school. The child has clearly been abused/ill treated in some way for him to behave like this, or is he maybe in the care system, which I appreciate you won't know. I'm sure you realise this isn't the fault of the child, it is the fault of whatever awful experiences he has had.

The thing is it is difficult for the school because they can't discuss anything with you about this child because of confidentiality. This is how it should be of course, but it does make things difficult. The chances are they are tearing their hair out themselves and desperately trying to "manage" the situation. My friend is a head teacher of a primary school and she was telling me about a child like this only the other day. Apparently he has to be physically restrained at times. They are trying hard to get him moved to a specialist provision but the wheels are turning slowly. It is quite likely that the staff at your children's school are in the same position but obviously can't discuss this with you.

My friend tells me that she too gets frustrated at the way in which they have to give these sort of children more attention as it then looks to the other children who are doing the right thing that the "naughty" child is getting more rewards. It is however a strategy of trying to cope with the disruptive child, knowing that it is more likely to work at primary school age than anything else.

I don't think moving your children is the answer because as I think your DH says? there are going to be children like this in all walks of life. My dil who is a mother and primary school teacher always says that mothers need to teach their children the skills to deal with what they come across in school and that serves them well for using those skills through their life. This sounds like good advice to me.

How worried are your children by the way. Thing is of course if they see yu getting very stressed and anxious, this will make them worse and it will become more of a problem.

The child has clearly learned the language he uses at home and it sounds to me as though he is being badly mistreated somewhere along the line, or maybe with parents who just do not know how to handle him. Either way it is not the fault of the child is it though I realise that you are already aware of this. Your frustration seems to lie with the school and I can see why this would be (we are like tigers when it comes to protecting our kids arenlt we) but I would be patient and it may be that the school will be able to find the provision that this child badly needs.

[dippyegg]

So sorry to hear what is going on at your school. I think that your son and the children at the school should not have to put up with this constant verbal and physical abuse.

I am afraid I am writing for advice too.
My daughter is being bullied by her supposed "best friend" at school.

This girl decides what my daughter is allowed to eat for lunch; makes her carry her orange peel in her pockets after she's peeled it; wears my daughter's cardie on a cold day. The worst occasion was when she was annoyed that my daughter did better than her in a spelling test (they are only 6!) and she took her to the toilets and made her sit on a wet loo seat and have water dripped on her head.
I've been in to the school on several occasions and while her teacher is making some basic attempts to interfere she has admitted that she will not be able to sort things out that happen in the playground.

I told my friend and neighbour who told me there is a place at the school that her 6 year old attends. It's a lovely school, closer for us to walk to (I actually applied there when my daughter started school but didn't get a place) and our daughters are great friends.

I have sent for the forms but the timing is dreadful as I have to apply for my son's place by 4th December and he is very unlikely to get into my neighbour's school unless my daughter already has a place.

All my friends are urging me to go ahead and try even though I have to get our current headteacher to fill in a form stating that he supports her moving school.
I am very stressed and my husband is nervous about such a radical step but we have to act now because of my son's school admission.

Can anyone tell me of their experiences of dealing with this kind of controlling bullying and/or moving schools (I think my daughter would settle in fairly easily as she is young and is such good friends with our neighbour and the school is very small and friendly).

I look forward to hearing from people on the last day of 'anti-bullying week' and children in need....

[cupcakesinthesnow]

Mummag - No not in Stafford - south coast

NanaNIna - yes I do inderstand that this child is possibly being abused on some emotional/physical level for him to be acting this way BUT he has been this wasy for almost 4 years whch I think is time enough for the school to realise that they do not have the facilities to deal with him and other children in the school are suffering. As I said he is gettig bigger, stringer and more violent so just how badly doe she have to injure a child before something more serious is done to control him? My youngest son (whose year he is in) has already said repeatedly to be he is afriad of being in this childs class when they get mixed around next year

Dipyegg - So sorry you are dealing with this on another level with your daughter. Have you asked that yur daughter and this girl are seperated in class or even put in different classes and maybe encourage your daughter to make another secial friend and helo her along by inviting a nice girl to tea after school?

On other advice I have decided to put all my concerns in writing to a letter to the head, governors and LEA so my concerns are documented for future reference.

The child has an elder sibling at the school who graphically described sexual acts to a friends 9 year old son and said he watches films like this at home. I am confused to be honest as I am not sure just when 'enough is enough' as far as the school go. Surely this is very worrying? A 9 year old watching pornography?! I know children can lie and boast but to be able to describe scenes so graphic they could not be made up, surely this should be looked into?!? Especially consiering the younger child behaviour?

[bigTillyMint]

Sadly this sounds horribly familiar.

The boys are clearly in a very difficult home setting and are acting out at school. The Head is not at liberty to discuss their circumstances with other parents, but you can make clear your concerns - it is a good idea to write and have your concerns documented. It may also help to push things on for those children - child protection, etc.

Sadly this is a result of the governments insistence on Mainstream education for all - a mainstream school is simply not able to meet the needs of children like this, (who might actually flourish in the right special setting), and meanwhile other children are adversely affected.

[dippyegg]

Cupcake - thanks for your advice.

I have invited a new girl back home to play which went well. Bully now pressurising daughter to invite her over again.

We had her over nearly a year ago to put up our Christmas tree and it was hideous - the day not the tree!

I saw at first hand what a charmless and controlling child she was then and vowed not to have her back. I had never seen a charmless 5 year old before this time and didn't realise they existed.

My daughter's teacher has also seperated them for certain sessions in class which my daughter asked for and will speak to her parents.

I hope it works....must dash and collect her from school.

[jasper]

dippy I can relate to your comment about not believing there could be such a thing as a charmless 5 year old.
I used to think that till I met one

[mummag]

Hi again, i did the letter thing and got a horrible letter back from the head suggesting my son be the one to move. She is a nasty woman. i am going to write another letter cos i refuse to talk to her anymore in person as i have been in and out of her office for years.

i do understand that the boys homelife is quite possibly horrendous and obv i do care about that but ultimately my son is being deeply affected and they arent doing enuough to stop him.

[cupcakesinthesnow]

mummag - That is precisely it. Of course I care that another child has such a shitty homelife that they act this way with other children BUT I/we would not be a good mothers if I was not trying to make my childs school life more pleasant and ultimately my child/children are my priority.

Dippy - good luck with your daughters new friend

I do know a bit about this childs homelife from a friend but of course the head has no right to discuss it with me. After school today the deputy head saw me and said she has had a meeting with the boys father and procedures are in place, so we shall see.....

[mummag]

yep sad for the boy but very sad for our boys too, i know its not easy for anyone and no easy answer but i have been very very patient. I am now no longer going to be patient and i expect some action. I sound like a real hard arse, but i am not.

[cupcakesinthesnow]

You sound exactly like me mummag - not a hard arse at all

I can't believe that a child can be this bad and so little has been done, to date. I think other parents have almost come to accept it and say 'well, it is X - it's to be expected' and that is unnacceptable. I hope by being as forthright as I have now been, I kick start some much overdue action that will benefit everyone in the long run.

[shockers]

cupcake Did you tell anyone at school about the 9 yr old watching porn? There's a strong chance that they will already know but that is a child protection issue so you could do with making sure they do (if you haven't already).

[cupcakesinthesnow]

Yes, shockers, I told the deputy head during our meeting. She said there were people she could talk to about that and would.

[shockers]

I hope that you speaking up gets something done for all the children involved.
It's hard when you know that there are serious issues at home for these boys but for what it's worth, I think you've done the right thing... maybe it will galvanise the powers that be to look into their homelife more closely.
They sound like very disturbed children and it isn't fair that other children are being subjected to violence and bad language.
The worrying thing is, there is a good chance that they themselves are subjected to it by much bigger people at home.

[mummag]

Hello again, just wondered if you had had any luck cupcake, i am despairing of the school i really am. I was going to fight but now i am really thinking about switching schools. Today the boy who hurts my son shouted out swear words throughout lessons, ran out of class, slammed another kids fingers in the door. I am now trying to tell my son that this is not normal, this is not how school should be. He doesnt want to leave this school but he also developed chest pains when he arrived at the gates this morning and wouldnt go in without a fight. I just could cry about it, the school are clearly not doing enough to control this boy. believe me i understand that it is tricky for them, but why does school have to be like this for my lad......

[shaz298]

Hi,

Just thought I'd throw my tuppence in. reality is that the school has a duty of care to protect ALL children in their care from violence (see UN Convention on the rights of the child, Article 19)

In these instances the child is the aggressor (for whatever reason, disability or behaviour) however it is still a chid protection issue.

My son started school last week and has SEN himself and is a wheelchair user. Cognitively he is very well developed though. he has a home/school diary but yesterday he came home and told me another boy in the class had hit him in the face for no reason. He did say that the boy was told off, but none of that was recorded in his diary!

I spoke to his 1-1 ( he has full time 1-1) and asked about it. I explained that i wanted all incidents recorded in his diary as his speech isn't fab and he may not be able to tell me about situations. I explained I didn't want to make a song and dance about this 1 incident but need to know if a pattern develops. ( If my child is kicked in the tummy he could die due to his medical issues) Her response was that this boy has problems and that he has hit almost everyone in the class already. They only started on 19th Aug.

Now I know this boy has problems and I would say in my experience of working with children and young people that he has psychological problems or is perhaps on the spectrum somewhere.I completely sympathise with the child and his family,. However my child has the RIGHT to be safe when at school. Should this continue to be an issue I will raise definitely raise it. Every letter will be CC'd to the LEA and maybe even the Children's Commissioner. if I have to raise it as a child protection issue then i will.

If a child for whatever reason cannot be prevented from harming/being violent (I consider throwing chairs to be violent)even when they have additional support, they need not to be in that environment. Children need to be safe, end of story. This is in no way as a punishment to the child who is aggressive as it maybe is not his/her fault. But that child also needs to be in an environment where he/she is safe.

Violence in the clasroom/playground is just not acceptable in any way/shape or form.