My feed
Premium
Please
or
to access all these features

Find advice from others who have experienced school or workplace bullying on our Bulllying forum.

Bullying

Can I have some opinions on this school meeting?

26 replies

MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 20:44

Right, before we start two things:

I am in Switzerland, so there is no LEA and things are done differently here.

This meeting was held in French, so I have certainly only got the gist of it and may have missed details (I checked with other parent who speaks better French than me to make sure I understood the main issues correctly).

School meeting was called today to address the problems caused by bullying. According to 8yo DD, this was because, "M hasn't wanted to come to school for weeks because D has been bullying her".

D is 8yo boy, very intelligent, tall and strong for his age. DD is almost 9yo and he is already head and shoulders taller than her.

When we moved here two years ago, D befriended DS, then 4yo (we have composite classes so he was in DS's class before he moved into DD's class). They were buddies for a while, but D could be quite violent towards DS so he started to be a bit more cautious. Two summers ago D pushed DS underwater at the beach, so strongly that DS was very upset - he said that D had tried to kill him. DS is not the kind of child to exaggerate and he has not wanted anything to do with D.

DD has had no direct problems with D, but has on occasion commented on him being in trouble again. Or him encouraging other child to do "naughty things" such as throwing DD's jacket into lake.

Ok. Tonight. It was clear that although it was officially about "Violence in School" and how to deal with it, that it was actually about D.

All the parents were uncomfortably sat in childrens' chairs - HT, assistant HT, school nurse, leader of school health office, lunchtime supervisors at the front of class. HT opened meeting.

First one, then another then a third parent told about their childrens' problems with D. Kicking, hitting, emotional abuse...

Some of the parents argued against this, and said that it was not fair to stigmatise the child as a bully and put the blame for every incident in the class at his door.

Headteacher and school nurse explained the anti-bully project that they would be doing, and talked about not stigmatising D, but also having to protect other children.

D's father was calm and asked questions, talked to the other parents. His wife was very defensive and demanded to know if the lunchtime supervisors really thought that he was violent. She pushed them until they admitted that he was. She then asked about times when D has been hurt by other children. I had the impression that she was in denial about the behaviour of her son in school.

Meeting ended when D's father offered the other parents his telephone number and asked to be informed about any problems that their children had with D.

I am very torn. On the one side, it was very Swiss - open democracy, everyone talking clearly and plainly about the issue. On the other hand, I felt terrible for the parents of D as they had to sit there and hear how terrible their son it. I have no idea if this kind of thing goes on in UK.

What do you think? Any merit in this or is it just going to make matters worse, as it creates a "them and us" situation?

OP posts:
Report
montmartre · 23/03/2011 20:51

Wow- it seems odd that the Head would not raise the issues as they had arisen with D's parents.

M is another child I presume, not your child?

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 20:53

Yes, M is a child in the class.

There have been many meetings between parents and school, including some kind of "therapy" with the school nurse, I believe.

OP posts:
Report
SoriaMoria · 23/03/2011 20:54

Blimey. I agree that's odd but, uselessly, have no experience of what would be done in the UK. Surely something needs to be done though? For both D's sake and the other childrens'.

Report
andiem · 23/03/2011 20:56

I think it would be unusual to involve the parents in this sort of discussion but when my ds was bullied the children all sat down and discussed how they should deal with the bully and stop him. The children were asked to come up with strategies to manage the bully and ensure ds was safe at school. It worked.

Report
RoobyMurray · 23/03/2011 20:57

wow. I that had been around here, I reckon it would have ended a lot worse!

It kind of lays it all at the feet of the parents doesn't it? Did the school take any kind of partnership/joint responsibility role, or offer support?

Children's behaviour is such a complex issue isn't it?

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 20:59

Yes, good that they are doing something. They were pretty useless last year when the English kids were having bullying issues so was a surprise.

Interesting, Andie. That is a good approach (sound like a management trainee there)

I was rather disappointed that, unlike previous school meetings, there was no wine tonight.

OP posts:
Report
RoobyMurray · 23/03/2011 21:00

massive x-post. so the school have already approached the parents individually.

I personally don't think it's a good idea to let parents loose on each other, but maybe the Swiss have more of a community responsibility thing going on?

Report
picc · 23/03/2011 21:01

Weird. Like montmatre, not quite getting this.
So no one had raised it with D's parents before the meeting?

Or had they tried, but his mum had been defensive/ disbelieving... so they felt they wanted to hammer the point home using other parents?

Or had it genuinely started off as a general meeting, but people there started mentioning specific incidences/ pupil?

I know English people can be less direct than other Europeans, but I still find this approach a bit odd.

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 21:01

Rooby,
yes, that is what DH said.

I was waiting for fisticuffs or some excitement, but that would be decidedly unSwiss, I guess.

OP posts:
Report
andiem · 23/03/2011 21:02

The Swiss are obviously are lot more restrained than some of the parents I have met!!

Report
Alouiseg · 23/03/2011 21:02

It appears to be a far more civilised way of sorting things out than the cloak and dagger secrecy that exists in the UK.

At least EVERYBODY knows what's happening about this situation rather than the Chinese whispers that feed the playground gossips.

I'm sure that it's very normal for the parents of the bully to be in denial but when faced with so much "evidence" they can't just deny it or blame everyone else.

Good for the Father for wanting to be kept informed about any future disruption.

Report
squeaver · 23/03/2011 21:03

It's almost as if the school needed the other parents there to convince the parents that there is a problem. If the mother is very defensive, perhaps they've had some trouble communicating the issue to her?

Have you ever heard of a meeting like this in Switzerland? My (UK, ind) experience has been - behavioural issues like this are tackled jointly by school and parents. Parents whose children have been affected by the child's behaviour are told that it is being handled.

So, in summary, yes, odd.

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 21:04

Picc
No, there had been many meetings over the course of D's school life - he is in 2P, which is his fourth year in school, and there have been issues with his behaviour from the start. Think that it escalated because one of the other children has been pulled from school as his parents don't think that the school is doing enough to protect him.

OP posts:
Report
squeaver · 23/03/2011 21:05

And no wine!! That's just freaky.

Report
poorbuthappy · 23/03/2011 21:07

I think it must have reached a point where the denial of the bully's parents literally meant nothing could be done. To be presented with the the evidence by so many people may be the start of something being done.

Lets hope so anyway.

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 21:10

Squeaver
Yes, not used to parents' evenings without wine. It is the first one that I have been to that has been like this. No idea if it is normal.

Will be having a chat to some of the other mums at the school gate tomorrow to find out what I may have missed.

OP posts:
Report
MotherMountainGoat · 23/03/2011 21:19

We live in Germany and I would be appalled if this happened at a parents' evening. I don't think it would be allowed because it would be seen as an invasion of D's right to privacy, dignity, or whatever.

The trend in Germany seems to be to encourage children to sort out such problems themselves, but under the guidance of adults. Some of the older kids (year 6) are 'trained' to act as mediators in conflict situations. Younger kids have one lesson a week where they sit in a circle and discuss social behaviour and problems in the class, what's appropriate etc. Only after that fails would the parents be brought in to talk individually with the teacher.

Having said that, if the other parents seemed comfortable with talking about it in a mature manner (the mother less so, it seems), why not. Die Schweizer ticken ja anders :)

Report
montmartre · 23/03/2011 21:27

How awful and sad for D's parents though- I'm sure his mother reacted that way purely because she was so embarrassed... in the way we often laugh (nervously) in completely horrific or inappropriate situations, because that is the only way we can deal with it.

Is this a village, town or city? Will his family be isolated or ostracised because of this? How sad for all concerned- D obviously needs help.

Report
Maryz · 23/03/2011 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 21:28

MotherMountainGoat
Yes, that is how I would have expected the Germans to handle it. And the thought of the privacy breach did occur to me too.

Suppose it depends how much the parents go home and tell the children.

OP posts:
Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 21:33

montemarte
It is a tiny village - just over 100 children in the school. Don't think it will have repercussions but of course every parent in the school will hear about it.

The parents are very lax, from what I have seen and heard. They both work, and D is shunted between aupairs. There was one last year who was totally and utterly unable to cope with a headstrong D.

D can be a totally lovely boy. He was so kind to DS when we first moved here, really looked after him. And he adores our little dog and is always very gentle with her. It is such a damn shame.

OP posts:
Report
montmartre · 23/03/2011 21:51

Even the kindest, most lovely children feel ignored, bored, or overtired at times.

Flash incidents sound like it may be attention seeking. He was only 6 with the incidence in the water- i'm sure he wouldn't have realised how far it was going, or comprehended the repercussions.

Report
LindsayWagner · 23/03/2011 21:57

Oh my giddy goddy. That is AWFUL Mme.

Totally unfair, no wonder she's defensive. It's basically like putting them in the stocks, isn't it? And seems a complete abrogation of the school's responsibility to all the children. If I were the parents, I can't imagine being able to stay in a place after this.

Boy sounds awful challenging btw. But still.

Report
MmeLindt · 23/03/2011 22:08

Montmarte
he was only 6yo but I think he did know what he was doing. DS is very down to earth lad, not prone to exaggerating and he was terribly upset. He has not wanted anything to do with him since.

Yes, putting them in the stocks, that is what it felt like. I do wonder if it were a bit of forcing them to take action, to take responsibility for their son.

I don't know if I could keep my son in the school though, not after tonight, if I were them.

OP posts:
Report
Alouiseg · 23/03/2011 22:12

Which might be what the school wants. Bully gone, parents in denial gone, equilibrium restored.

He then becomes another schools "problem" but on the other hand it gives him a clean slate to behave if he wants.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.