Is DS a bully? Being bullied? Just playing?

[nicolaelc]

My son is in nearly 9 and has always been a middle of the road kind of guy - popular but not the 'top' kid, clever without being a genius etc. He's a team player - really into his footie and not one to just 'take the glory', very helpful, is gentle and loving to his Downs Syndrome classmate. However, he does yell if cross and seems to get angry with his little sister (who winds him up!) but never to the point of physical pushing etc. He yells and cries then it blows over. My husband does the same if wound up - yelling to get school shoes on etc - but it's not aggressive or threatening..I believe..just a general get-your-skates-on yell.
Last summer term two kids were in the school loo with my son and one peed on him. Two times. DS told me about it but said it was all fine as they were sent to the head, made to apologise and they're all mates again now. I left it with the school as DS seemed fine about it and didn't contact the mums of the kids as I try and let DS take responsibility for speaking up if something is bothering him, though I still probe I must admit! But I don't go to the other mums if DS says its sorted out as that's school gate politics that I'm not a fan of.
Now the one that peed on him, this term, was kicked by a (hyper) girl in their class and it turns out my DS told her to do it. He said this was a throw away comment, he said he should have kicked him not the ball in footie as the other kids tackles were so bad - but the girl went and did it anyway. When he realised he immediately apologised and thought it was all ok again. I was looking for signs of anything else but believe this is what happened. I also spoke to his friend quietly another day and he said it was wierd she did it, DS didn't mean her to actually kick this kid.
Now one boy in his class is saying that he has bruised him, once before xmas whilst playing cricket (said he hit him on purpose on the shin - my son said it was a total accident, he was too close behind him when he was batting but he said sorry and thought the other boy was ok). THe mum noticed a bruise and took it to the school, the son didn't. And now the same boy has bruises on his arms saying my son pulled him out of the way of his game. Again, his mum noticed the bruises and asked her son about it, understandably so. This is the boy whose best mate peed on my DS and stood and watched it happen. This boy is having counselling already but it's very easy to brush it aside and think he's attention seeking and my son is blameless.
Without belittling anything else, I do think the other boy attention seeks - he threatens to not eat, kill himself etc - it's used as an attention seeking device and it works with his parents. Not that I'm there all the time to comment of course, and he needs help with this way of getting attention of course.
Now I want to take the latest accusation seriously as if my son is becoming a bully to this child it certainly must be nipped in the bud - but how to do this?? I don't want to punish him when it may have just been playground playing, may be this boy is attention seeking using my son as another tactic etc. But I can't leave it either!
The teacher says to me it's just playground playing, nothing has been seen to suggest its bullying. It's a small school so it is likely to be seen.
Any suggestions - I'm worried that either he's becoming a bully with this kid (no other incidents with other children) or is being targeted by this kid who's blowing up minor incidents to get attention from his parents..?
I am socially friends with the mother, too, and imagine she's angry as her son is telling her my son is doing this. She's quite confrontational herself so I'd rather deal with it via the school and socially keep my distance. She is understandably upset and I don't think she'd keep calm if I asked to discuss it calmly all together, which I would rather do, in tandem with the school. Especially if my DS is 'innocent' - I don't want DS to get a reputation as a result of 'blown up' stories and nor do I want him bullying.
Help!! How do I get my son to either stop even playing with this kid in case something else happens?? His empathy seems in tact with everyone else..? Any advice?

[rockinhippy]

I want to write a long reply to this, but just not able to right now,

but in short, there used to be a Girl in my own DDs class that sounds similar to this boy, Mum sounds similar too, thankfully the Dad was a lot more aware & could see what was really going on & that was very much attention seeking & lying on the part of the Girl, from the Dads point of view, to get Mums attention as Mum wasn't very attentive........

DD was a target for a lot of this & in the very beginning I spent time helping out in Class so I could see for myself what was really going on, & it WAS very much this Girl, as time went on she targetted other kids too......like your Son its a small School, & with another bullying incident where DD was the target, they handled it really well,

What I'm trying to say without typing a novel, is that from what you write, it sounds as if you can trust the School to act with Bullies & if they are not complaining to you about your son, especially when you ask, then it is highly unlikely you have anything to worry about, you're being a good Parent for not presuming he is an Angel & looking at the bigger picture, which is great, but I think the outbursts you mention sound pretty normal from Kids that age, DD sounds a lot like him in nature & can do it too & she's 8, noy harm in keeping an eye on it & letting the Teachers know you are open to communication, but otherwise if your DS is dealing with it...forget it, if he;s anything like my DD it won't harm him, & will teach him valuable lessons in dealing with difficult people.....it has with my own DD

[SWImmes]

I have a 9 year old son. Last year there were many incidents with another boy in the class. This boy had behavioral problems, but my son would sometimes play with him (as with everyone). Over time this boy started to try and attack my son(didn't work as my son is bigger/stronger) and set my son up by telling the teachers things.

It all came to a head when in woodwork class this boy launched himself at my son with a pair of scissors, my son dodged, but he was going for his eye. The teacher saw it all. The kid was sent home. The next day the kid arrived in school with a cut above his eye - and said that my son had cut him with scissors.

To cut a long story short - the teachers could see exactly what was going on. And this other boy was actually removed from the school a few weeks later.

Nevertheless - as a mother, I can relate to your feelings, because you want to be sure that your boy isn't provoking or bullying. I had lots of open talks with my son, in combination with lots of talks with the teachers. I think you are doing the right thing. (This boys mother was also really odd - she arrived at school the next day, screaming at the teacher and had to be physically removed by the head) All you can do is exactly what you are doing. Keep channels of communication very open with your boy and with the teachers. Keep an eye on the situation. If it elevates - like it did in my son's situation, then take things a step further. A child who seeks attention through making false accusations (in combination with suicide threats) needs special help. The boy in my sons class used to say "I'm going to come in with a gun and kill you all".

It's not a nice situation - but with what you describe it sounds like you're doing the right thing and the situation is being dealt with appropriately. Just keep an eye that it doesn't develop.

[nicolaelc]

Thank you - that's so reassuring!
Since then I spoke to the teacher again (I volunteer there once a week) and that there'd been another incident where DS basically 'grassed' the boy up for cheating. the teacher had seen anyway actually but the boy stood and screamed LIAR at DS in front of the class, his mate (that peed on DS last year) stood and did the same so DS got "distraught" (teacher's word) and cried. Others on the boys team, thankfully, didn't join in and told the teacher the truth. But at least the teacher saw the aggerssion coming the other way. Also yesterday the same boy was caught in the corrider calling a beautiful Asian girl racist names. Which is horrible. I hope he works his problems out - I can only keep going and teach my son not only to avoid rising to it, but also (now) to avoid showing smug-ness when the other guy gets into trouble. Never easy!