Q re BF, horrendous wind pain, diet and dummies vs fingers

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

Oh lordy I'm in a pickle.

My 3 wk old baby is exclusively BF and has always been very farty. If it's 'something I ate' as per the MW and HV then I'm reckoning it's got to be air or water, because my diet is varied but the wind is consistent. Of course, it might be something ubiquitous like milk or wheat ...

The thing is, for the past 48 hours he's been miserable (to the extent that we saw an out of hours GP the other night - all she could really tell me was that he wasn't dying). He's been a quiet, contented baby from birth, whinges rather than cries and is generally easily settled. But all of a sudden he's changed - now he's either asleep, feeding or screaming and writhing in pain. I don't mean for a few hours at night, I mean every time he wakes up he's straining and thrashing around.

We've been giving Infacol since this all started, and warm deep baths, doing baby tummy massage, rumbling round in the pram, propping him in the bouncy chair etc. He generally seems happier upright - currently he's sleeping on my shoulder, but if I try to lie him down in his basket (we've already raised the head of that) he'll be awake in a flash. Nothing's helped so far - plenty farting but not enough to relieve the pain it seems. The only thing which reliably soothes him is sucking desperately, which has taken its toll on my poor boobs. He's equally happy with my finger.

I hate dummies personally, and although I feel BF is quite well established and I'm confident with it, I gather they're frowned upon for BF babies. But if he's spending his waking hours latched onto my finger, wouldn't a dummy be a slightly more convenient evil? And is this stuff about diet and BF really true - I'm on day 2 of dairy-free because it's about the only possible offender.

The general response to my hand-wringing from doc/HV so far is along the lines of 'he's got colic, he'll grow out of it', wih a subtle undertone of 'babies cry, dumbass, deal with it'. But this is so persistent and completely unlike him I can't help my gut feeling that something's actually wrong. Also, OH goes back to work in a week and round-the-clock finger sucking/chair bouncing/pram pushing vigils are going to be much, much harder without 2 of us. Does anyone please have any pearls of wisdom/experience/suggestions?

[choolie]

you have my total sympathy, but DS is shouting for his feed, so I can't manage a full reply till 10ish, by which time am sure the kindly folk on here will have already provided loads of advice, just wanted to say hello and hang on in there.

[tiktok]

Chubby - how about ringing one of the bf lines and talking this through?

It's hard to put a finger on what this might be without a real dialogue.

For instance, many babies do change as they emerge from the newborn period, and occasionally, the change is quite sudden. They become more alert, communicative, and less happy to just sleep/feed.

OTOH, you seem to be describing a baby who is miserable and uncomfortable - but if sucking really helps soothe him, then honestly, I agree with the doctor, there cannot be anything organically wrong. That's not to say your baby isn't in real distress with whatever-it-is....yet a mother's gut feelings should be listened to. Really ill babies don't squirm, fart and cry, though - they are listless and sleepy and sad.

Would 'baby wearing' help? Lots of mothers find that using a sling that leaves your hands free and keeps the baby close and as upright as he wants makes a real difference. These babies do grow out of whatever it is that was troubling them, and the sling makes it easier all round during that time. I'm assuming your baby is thriving, feeding often day and night and pooing and weeing normally, BTW.

People will suggest reflux, colic, food intolerance and other stuff - all possibilities and all of which can be treated to some degree. I think it's ok to assume at least at first that the baby is normal and healthy, and to go with the simple 'remedies' of responding to his needs and using a sling. If these help, then there is no need to tie yourself in knots with exclusion diets, medication or even wrestling with the idea of a dummy if that's not what you want (a dummy would not affect your bf now, by the way, if it is well-established, and its use or not becomes a matter of your own personal preference and parenting 'style').

Hope this helps

[Jojay]

Agree with Tiktok, if sucking on something really soothes your DS, there is unlikely to be anything really wrong.

If you do try a dummy, don't feel bad about it. I was anti them too, but I used one with my son, and when I see how much comfort he gets from it, I think it was the right thing to do.

Good Luck

[choolie]

chubby, my DS went through a similar phase and we dd the same with OOH Drs, and nothing doing. i wished I'd given a dummy (anti dummies too) as now i find he's sucking on my finger constantly before sleep. - you can control it's use and just let him have it when he needs it, but what I didn't realise was that some babies do genuinely have a great need to suck a lot more than others. (Apologies to all dummy using parents now, as previously I'd just believed the myth that dummies were used to shut babies up, whereas I now realise they do have a genuine purpose!).

Our phase didn't last too long, if that's any consolation, as horrible as it is to hear them crying. Like you, I felt something was wrong, as I don't think babies do really cry unless something is wrong, but it might be something as simple as needing to be close to you. - bear in mind 3 wks ago, he was snuggled warm in your belly, didn't need to worry about when to feed sleep etc. and is only now becoming aware of his (scary) surroundings. I did like the suggestions below, popped him in the carrier, went for long walks with him snuggled on my chest, used it round house if he was unsettle etc. and it did work. try lots of skin-toskin with him, this always seems to soothe, as does lying him on his change mat without clothes or nappy to kick about freely (best have a fluffy towel or something underneath for warmth!)

I never left him cry and tried everything, as I'm sure you're doing, another thing that particularly calmed him was dancing slowly with my singing along to soothing CDs.

I eliminated loads from my diet, worse offenders at the time were chocolate , sweetcorn, strawberries, fruit juice, banana for me, but these can be so different for each baby. if you do think it's diet related but can't work out what it is, could you try keeping a food and symptoms in DS diary?

The other thing it could be, is he possibly getting too much fore milk? (although this tends to produce explosive poos as well as the wind!) does he feed off both boobs in one sitting or one at a time? is he having long feeds or short bursts? if he's not getting to the hind milk enough that can cause probs for their little bottoms. if you do switch sides mid-feed maybe worth trying to keep him on the first boob longer?

sorry if you've tried all these suggestions, good luck!

[KITTENSOCKS]

Have you thought of trying a motorised swing, I've heard a lot of people say they're good for colicky babies, could you borrow or buy secondhand, or failing that Toys r us have one for £29.99.
My DS was always crying from 5.30pm, I well remember jiggling the bouncy chair with my foot while trying to eat tea. At 3wks I gave in to a dummy as my nipples were shredded from comfort sucking, it helped to a degree, although he looked like Maggie from the Simpsons with it going in and out! It will not affect breastfeeding.
A few weeks later it had all stopped. It was as if his digestive system had finally got used to the job it was supposed to be doing.
I would definitely consult breastfeeding counsellors for their advice,continue with the Infacol, and try using a sling and/or a swing as well as a dummy, silicone teat only, latex tastes foul. All the best.

[choolie]

peterduck, how did you wean your LO off the finger??? trying to do that at the moment, with little success. when i'm knackered and his little hand grabs my hand and draws it to his mouth it's still the easier option. be grateful for any tips!

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

Oh thank you, thank you all!

It does help tiktok, thanks. I've got a sling but it's not in use because I had a section and it's pretty uncomfortable right now. Discomfort might not outweigh miserable child for long though! Having said that, when he starts this wailing he doesn't always respond well to being held close because he's often stiffening his limbs and thrashing his head about, so I find myself laying him on my knee or just shuffling him around a lot until he calms himself down.

KITTEN, fortunately the bouncy chair has a battery-operated bounce, so provided we give it a head start with some proper hardcore jiggling he settles not too bad in there. Not so handy at night though, when he simply refuses to go down in his basket.

PeterDuck, I had wondered about the milk. He's a speedy feeder (usually finishes side one in 10, max 15 mins and then might have another 5-15 mins on the other side after a nappy change) but I've never noticed milk spurting out or anything, it just drips very fast from the other side when I feed. I tend to let him decide when he's had enough on the first side and then don't offer it again, maybe I should put him back onto it after his change. His poos do tend to be explosive, but then again they always have been, I thought that was fairly normal for them at this age? Never green though.

Both my mum and MIL have gently suggested (in light of the 11oz weight gain noted this morning!) that he's getting his own way too much, and I suspect OH is subscribing to this view too. Isn't that what's supposed to happen though - at 3 weeks old he's hardly formulating a plan for world domination, surely?!

Thanks all for your kind advice, and I think I might well ring one of the BF advice lines. Here was me thinking we had it sorted once my engorgement had passed ...

[determination]

Have you tried baby yoga? doing stretches with him to help him pass wind? give him a massage using olive oil to relax him,?

Other than that check out this link

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I would definately suggest you try offering only one side per feed. I did this with ds and then dd as they both were very colicky, farty and completely healthy babies - but it is hard going for those first months - I sympathise.

They both gained weight really well and consistently - but I did spend most evenings pacing and feeding. Also used a sling/ bouncy chair combination to get through the days. Lots of long walks helped as well as they seem to sleep better in the buggy and the (comparatively)fresh air.

Don't worry about comments that you are 'giving in' to feeding to often - I strongly believe in letting the babies apetite dictate the pace, if you are happy to do so as well then follow your instincts on this.

[tiktok]

Awwww....getting his own way??? he is three weeks old - less than a month ago he was inside you, with no idea that he 'should' wait or not be comforted when in distress, When you respond to him, you are teaching him a wonderful lesson - that he is loved, that someone who loves him will care for him and take his needs seriously, and that his discomfort matters, and that the world is a good place. These are important lessons for future emotional health and research shows that babies who are responded to promptly and whose distress is alleviated cry less at 8-9 months than the ones who have been 'taught' that no one will attend them (if at all) unless they really go ballistic for half an hour.

I wonder if it is over-generous supply - not usually an issue until about 5 weeks, but your fast let down and a mahoosive weight gain make me think it's possible. This settles down by itself, or you can help it along by deliberately feeding on one side only - in your case, put him back on side one after the nappy change/break in the middle of the feed. See if this makes a difference over a couple of days. Check the archives for more on one sided feeding.

And do try the sling

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I def had an over-supply issue as initially ds was putting on a lb a week - the HV kindly likened me to a cow

[MegBusset]

Hi CSB, my DS had a mega growth spurt around 3 weeks and cried and cried from one feed to the next... the only time he was content seemed to be on the boob. I just gave in and sat on the sofa and watched telly while he fed from me day and night -- lasted about 3/4 days IIRC.

Oh, and he gained a pound a week for the first few weeks so it's totally normal! I was congratulated by my HV who said this was really good! (I seem to have the only nice HV in the world.)

Would also recommend sling, also making sure you burp really thoroughly, and a dummy for if nothing else will settle him (now we only use it for naps).

[determination]

i too use a baba sling and it is the best thing ever. I actually feel like i have a nervous disorder if i go out without it!

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

Thanks very much folks, you lot are wonderful! Yesterday was better - not great but better, and he went down after lots of shrieking (but seemingly much less painful, less stiffening and a different sort of cry) around 1am and slept until half 5. I suspect the Infacol's kicking in, unless it's the dairy thing - if so it will become clear pretty soon as I forgot myself and had icecream last night! I blame the giddiness resulting from my first glass of plonk in 10 months (maybe that's why he slept? - and man did it taste good!). Never mind, I reckon it's the Infacol which is making the difference anyway.

I'll definitely try one-sided feeding, I was doing this in hospital but when I started to get really engorged (and he was jaundiced) the community MW suggested both sides with the change in the middle, which really helped. I guess I have to be flexible about this.

Massage techniques seem to be helping, loads of farts anyway! We caved and tried the dummy last night and he HATES it so we're just going to have to be careful not to let finger become vital (and I'll keep clarting on the Lansinoh!).

Thank you all so much, you've been really helpful. Babies are tough, but we shall persist with ad lib cuddles!

[choolie]

cheers peterduck, was guessing we had a while to go yet. the pain thing is i keep having to cut little finger nails ...typical as my nails have never grown so well!
chubby, my friend's baby had lactose intolerance and used something called colief. it's more expensive than infacol, and a faff if BF as you have to mix it with the milk before they feed, so have to express a bit and give it to them, but she found it worked better than infacol for her (but all babes different I know).

hope it gets better - and if oyu do start feeding one-sided, the engorged boobs should settle down as his feeding becomes more regular too - if it's too uncomfortable, you could always express a little amount just to make yourself comfy and then freeze it. (obv. expressing too much just tells your body to make more again so it's a fine line, but sometimes in the early days i just had to do it, as I knew I'd be leaking through my top anyway, so might as well catch some of it!!!) I did find black tops help if you're going out incase you do leak!

[fluffyanimal]

PeterDuck, just to let you know that my 17 month ds STILL has to suck my finger to go to sleep.... . I know I really need to wean him off it but the thought of how upset he will be just makes my blood run cold. Although I know he can do it, because he naps at nursery fine without it! Glad to know however that I am not the only fingersucking freak out there.
Choolie sorry this probably is really not what you want to hear.

[puffylovett]

hallo, we went thro similar situation at the same age, and it settled down after about 3 weeks. he would never take a dummy and i resorted to allowing him to comfort suck on me - whilst i learnt to read his cues. now he goes down easily to sleep if i catch him at the right time. you've been given loads of advice here and it does all work, honestly ! but will take time and patience. still has to use mummy dummy at bed time (7pm) but the rest of the time settles himself to sleep - i found the baby whisperer and these boards brilliant for advice.

he's not getting his own way ! he's probably overtired cos he can't sleep properly due to trapped wind due to fast letdown !

I read somewhere btw that if you introduce a bottle before 4 wks, they never get nipple confusion, and it worked brilliantly for us. I express for the 11pm feed now, and dp gets loads down him so he sleeps better. so would def recommend saving that dripped bm and get dp to feed him. we found the tommee tippee closer to nature bottles really good.

hope you're getting on better now !

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

We've got our baby back! He's been loads better today, still producing lots of wind but MUCH less miserable and we've had some spells of cheerful, interested, alert baby between feeds, sleeps and farts. We've managed to go out for coffee together, go shopping AND have a nice walk in the woods - quite an achievement at 3 weeks! So I've braved it and booked myself a haircut tomorrow for the first time in 6 months. Doubtless tonight will be hell then!

I'm going to get some breast shells for sure as both Dad and I would benefit if he could take milk from a bottle. I have some milk freezer bags - is there a way to add the milk from all day's feeds together before freezing?

Thanks so much for the great advice, it's made me feel much more confident about dealing with this.

[determination]

check this link out for expressing and storing breastmilk

[determination]

also this one

[Quattrocento]

Oh I know dummies are against all received middle-class/breastfeeding wisdom. Here's my old wives tale, for what it is worth.

I have two DCs, both breastfed. The first had a dummy and was entirely contented. Was cross with DM when she introduced the dummy against my wishes, but had to confess DD loved it. We took her off the dummy at around two years old. No problem.

The second child was brought up without a dummy. Without one that is except for me. He was latched on all the time. Was a total nuisance. He grazed all day and all night. For the few minutes of each day that he spent not being latched on, he would find his own fingers and suck. He still sucks his thumb now, at the age of 7. Every time I see him do it, I rue the day I never gave him a dummy.

[determination]

Very good point Quat