Urgent advice needed. My sil who has diabetes had a daughter today, the hospital are giving the baby formula, saying she is not feeding enough

[Overrun]

The baby blood sugar levels were pretty good, at 2.9 and they have to be over 2.6. She has been told that she has to bf every 3 hours, and the baby was held to the breast in the theatre to avoid a hypo.
Now as pro bfing as I am, I know that medically the babys blood need to be stable, but does any one have experience of this.
Predictably there has been no offer of specialist help to bf, only usual crap support offered on maternity wards (sorry sure some midwifes are good, but a lot aren't)
I am worried that this could lead to her not being bf, as the first couple of days are so important. My sil really wants to bf, its her first btw
What annoys me, that they are saying the baby doesn't know how to feed, I guess this happens, but surely its more likely that the latch isn't right or sil hasn't been helped enough. Baby is midterm btw, and alert and healthy.
Thanks in advance.

[chipmonkey]

Bumping for hunkermunker who has direct experience of this!

[NotQuiteCockney]

They should be syringe feeding or cup feeding, rather than bottle feeding, to help avoid nipple confusion (or lazy latch, or whatever).

And yeah, she needs a bfc or lactation consultant. How was the baby's arrival? How is your sil?

Oh, and where is she located,
vaguely? There may be MNers that know the local BF support situation, iyswim.

[Overrun]

Thanks for replying. the arrival was okay, but was a c section due to her being breech. I think sil is over the moon, but a little out of it, as probably her blood sugars are all over the place

[Overrun]

Not sure whether they are giving her bottles or cups/syringes. My b just said formula. I mean I want the baby to be okay, and sil but know from experience how much you have to fight to bf, when things are a bit out of the ordinary. Its hard enough when every thing is okay iyswim

[NAB3]

Breat feeding is a demand and supply situation and the baby needs to be put to the breast as often as possible to start the process. Can she refuse a bottle for her DD and demand help and support to breast feed? Congratulations on the baby!!

[MarsLady]

Can I copy and paste to my breastfeeding guru? (ABM)

[SherlockLGJ]

I have e-mailed Hunker for you.

[Overrun]

Thanks NAB, I don't think she would have the confidence to do this actually. its their first, and I did talk to her about what plans she had made about bfing two nights okay. She seemed to be taking it is read that the hospital would let her bf unless it was absalutely necesscary. I think that they will probably be the opposite. Quite happy to use formula whether its strictly necesscary or not. I know I am being cynical, but 1) hospitals are bad at supporting women to bf anyway
2) if they want a child fed as often as possible for what ever reason, they seem to prefer to give formula, so they can note how much was given and when, it fits in with their medical schedule better.
Thats how I see it, but obviously don't want my niece to have a hypo. Guess I don't know enough about it

[Overrun]

Please do Mars, thanks Sherlock

[NAB3]

Could you go into hospital and speak for her? This almost feelis ike bullying. She wants to breast feed, not have her baby fed formula.

[Overrun]

Please excuse the sp, I am probably feeling uptight as it is an issue very close to my heart.
I remember my ds1 being given formula while I was unconscious, and also how hard I had to fight to bf the dts Just want to help her, and support her if I can

[Overrun]

She is in Taunton, I was supposed to go, but ds1 has scarlet fever. MY mum is there, but she will be useless

[Overrun]

sorry and I am not in Taunton, I haven't had much sleep recently, with ds1 being unwell

[Ladymuck]

If she does need to top up then cups or syringe could be used, and frequent nursing should be encouraged. She should of course be encouraged to try to express as well but this isn't alwasy the easiest after a c/section.

The forumla can then be reduced by 5mls a feed per day to allow for a gentle increase in bf supply.

This is a really difficult area! I was in these circs (ds1 sugar level were down to 1.9) and it was very difficult being stuck between an NCT bfc ~(who knew surprisingly little about this type of situation, and was just plainly anti top-up) and a doctor (who knew very little about b/feeding). I was immensely grateful for a midwife who specialised in b/feeding who was able to help me come to terms with the best way of providing the formula that my baby needed, and who ensured that my supply built up. Yes the first couple of days are important but there can be circs when formula is warranted. The other issue to think about is that if the baby has low blood sugar then if you are solely b/feeding the baby will need to have frequent heelpricks to monitor the blood sugar levels. This is avoided if you do go for formula top up (the tests have to be done, but far less frequently).

If it is a question of formula top-up or having the baby in SCBU then I would also advise the formula top-up, as tryign to b/feed in SCBU when recovering froma c/section isn't much fun.

Try and get a bfc or an experienced midwife to help with latching and positioning (in fairness SCBU midwives can be very good at this). But your SIL needs to be careful - she needs to hear medical advice about her baby's condition from a medical adviser and feeding advice from an expert on feeding. These will rarely be the same person!

Despite 3 days in SCBU and a total of 6 days on formula top-up ds1 happily b/fed thereafter!

[hunkermunker]

Yes, I have direct experience of this.

Email me on hunkermunker at gmail dot com and I'll email you my mobile number so we can talk about it - I can't be on long atm as I'm at work.

Suffice to say that 2.6 is FINE for a bfed baby, the baby should be skin to skin as much as possible and she (or you on her behalf) needs to get in touch with a bfeeding counsellor asap.

[Ladymuck]

Can see why you're cynical. Yes I agree that the main reason for formula is ease of administration, but how often do you want a potentially poorly baby to have blood taken (often less than competently)?

[hunkermunker]

Ladymuck, sorry to be argumentative, but I would rather have had DS2 heelpricked twice the amount he was than given him formula.

I am a strong believer in the virgin gut and know that any formula given in the early days of a baby's life can be harmful to them, particularly wrt allergies, etc - and can lead to the non-establishment of breastfeeding.

You were lucky - your bfeeding worked, despite top-ups in hospital. Lots of mothers don't have that experience.

Plus what this hospital are doing goes against latest medical knowledge about sugar levels post-birth. I posted a link to an article Tiktok found for me a little while ago - I'll post it again here.

[Overrun]

As I say don't really know enough about it, just want my sil to know enough to make decisions and stand up for herself if need be
but thanks for all your responses

[hunkermunker]

Here is the link - this is very, very good - you want the hypoglycaemia link - it's the first one

[Heavenis]

I had GD with ds2 but he had real trouble with his blood sugars,needing hypo stop etc. He was put on a high calory formula for a little while.
Is is normal formula they are using ?

[hunkermunker]

Here's the thread I started when I came out of hospital with DS2

I refused formula - just told them he wasn't having it.

DS2 would've had IV dextrose if his sugars hadn't increased.

I also hand-expressed colostrum and syringe-fed him - she will need to hand-express directly into a syringe (one of the wide ones) - she'll probably need a bung for the end too.

I will phone you later on - I can't ring from work - will email you briefly too.

[Overrun]

thanks hunkermunker, wish I was going down there sooner, as not a lot I can do by text.
She may not feel as strongly as me, which is fine I understant, but she really really wants to do it.

[Ladymuck]

I'd read the title as the baby had already been given formula, in which case the issue is around establishing successful breastfeeding.

I also think that my experience worked because I was told how to wean off the formula successfully, which often seems not to be the case. Especially after a c/section when a stomachful of formula will be a shock to the system after colstrum - cold turkey may not be the best option.

But of course you are the expert.

[MarsLady]

Overrun.... I'd go with what Hunker is telling you. I haven't done my breastfeeding courses etc yet.. but I do know a wee bit about the sterile gut and the importance of bfing. DT1 was a tiny wee thing and they pricked her heel constantly... until I told them what I would do to the next person who pricked her heel! Also tiktok knows her stuff.

[hunkermunker]

Tiktok not posting atm, Marsy.

I've emailed you, Overrun.