Hand holding needed - things are really shit

[ilovetosleep]

Hi there. I'm just looking for some support (and any advice obviously welcome!)

Last week we had a 7day nursing strike. It was hell. DS2 is only 14 weeks old now. He would only feed during the night and if I roused him from a nap. This was obviously tough with a toddler around and if I missed him waking from a nap that was it for another 3 hours. He made up or it in the night...

We finally came out the other side after 3 days of ranitidine, a session of cranial and a lot of tears.

2 days of normality then bam - he caught a nasty virus. Fever of 40, upper respiratory infection etc. fed like a demon for 3 days, hated him being ill and was a nervous wreck but obviously elated I could nurse him back to health. By day three his fever was down but e had developed very frequent diarrhea. Leads emphasised importance of fluids and bm.

But Of course, as soon as his fever had gone he decided to go back on strike. I am such a mess, he is crying at the breast but unable to feed due to hunger/thirst. We resorted to syringe feeding last night (bottle refuser too!). He had 3 good feeds in the night and I have managed one this morning as he woke from a nap. He's asleep now and I'm ready to pounce. I just can't help feeling like this might be the end. I desperately don't want to stop and will almost certainly e on anti depressants by he time the week is out if I have to stop (history of pnd).

hes a very good size so weight not an issue, but hydration obviously is. He is ok for now, fontanelle soft and mouth not dry, but wet nappies are not as frequent as they should be and my dribble monster is only producing a few bubbles.

I don't k ow if I can face another week of strike.

We are back on the ranitidine (stopped during illness as he wouldn't let a syringe bear him. We had a few calpol related projectile vomits) I don't even know if it helped, it just seems like a coincidence that we stopped and he went on strike again.

Sorry this is long. I don't know what I am asking. I have RL practical help but no bf experts around. I know I will have to take him to hospital if he goes too many hours without feeds, but I desperately don't want to have to.

If anyone has any tips please I would love to hear them - although I suspect I have tried most things to get him to feed. - new place, position, etc etc. Sleep feeding seems to be the only way.

[ilovetosleep]

Sorry meant to say he won't feed but can't SLEEP due to hunger

[Taystee]

That sounds truly awful. Not sure if this will help but have you got blackout blinds to replicate the night time environment? How about white noise to cut down on distractions? (you can get free white noise apps on your phone). When my ds is very fussy standing and rocking while feeding helped. Hard on the arms though! I've been through the reverse cycling and I don't have another child to look after. Best of luck to you.

[ilovetosleep]

Thank you. I hae tried the blacked out room but he cries when we go in there presumably because he thinks I'm going to put him to bed! And standing / rockin feeding did work once or twice last week but only when I manage to rock him almost to sleep then catch him just before he nods off.

One thing I had considered. I thought initially the strike was a resistance to oversupply/fast let down. That would have settled down with the strike and maybe became more manageable. Then he would have increased supply with al his feeding during illness and now he's better he doesn't want it again? Could this be an explanation?

[juliascurr]

sympathy; it sounds tough

I've heard that any kind of sleep/feed pattern is good even if it's the wrong way round because then you can change it gradually.

It won't last forever

[tiktok]

:( :(

It's not clear if there's a doc involved here.

You can't diagnose dehydration by saliva and nappy counts. Clearly a baby needs to feed regularly to thrive and to remain hydrated, but fewer nappies and fewer dribbles can't be accurately assessed.

Babies who are hungry don't refuse to sleep - if a baby is very hungry, they sleep to conserve energy and are if anything sleepier.

It does sound like to need a medical opinion to see if things are serious or not as serious as you fear.

Hope you get good help soon - prob best not to leave it to the weekend when it is more difficult.

[ilovetosleep]

Sorry there was a typo. Shld have read paeds emphasised importane of fluid!

They sent us home on the basis that his virus is coming to an end but said we need to keep fluids up and no wet nappy or no feed for 6hrs would be worrying. His last check at paed consisted of fontanelle, saliva and general alertness so that's why I keep checking those.

I just missed a nap awakening and therefore another opportunity to feed (at 1pm) he last fed at 11am and 9am before that.


I know 14 week olds can go 3-4 hrs without a feed normally I'm just focused on this hydration issue. Obviously I'll go back to hospital if I'm sure he's getting dehydrated but they are notoriously unssupportive of bf hence me tryig to get in as many feeds as I can and not have to go back in. He is having wet nappies, but they are wet as in one small wee per feed rather than quite heavy as they usually are.

Fwiw he is very bright, alert and behavin normally. My main concern, I think, is tackling this nursing strike :( but I will call docs later to make sure i'm doing enough.

[ilovetosleep]

Tiktok, could you advise me of how to assess hydration from home, or do you think I really should I take him back in?

[tiktok]

I think the thing with nappy counts is that disposables are so absorbant, you can't assess output very accurately.He's clearly still weeing anyway. Saliva is really difficult to assess and some babies have dribblier days than others :)

Having said that, you are in a good position to observe and report back.

Leave it to the docs to actually assess, IMO.

Hope things go better.

[ilovetosleep]

Ok so I called the ward and couldn't speak to the doc but spoke to a nurse. He said that as long as he is feeding every 3-4 hrs and not going more than 6 its ok, and to feed more frequently if I can. And if he's vomiting then to go back in. He has throwm up following a feed once today, but he has reflux fgs and I now am worrying about the difference between a posset and a vomit. I am pretty sure it was a posset. I didn't mention nursing strike (got a blank look last time I did that) but I did say I found it easier to feed in sleep and he said that a reduced appetite would be expected following a virus like that.

I just feel so wobbly after this hideous week and don't trust myself to make any judgements...

[juliascurr]

you've got the medics advice and they sound reassuring; your confidence has had a knock because it's been really hard. Hope things get easier soon.

[Oly4]

Poor you. My daughter is 14 weeks old too and breastfed. I would follow tiktok's advice and keep seeking medical opinion, out of hours if necessary. Wet nappies and wet mouth are good signs but you really don't want to leave a baby too long without a feed especially in this weather. Can you express milk and syringe it in the back
Of his throat? I was told to do this with my first child when he was ill, small amounts but very frequently.

[ilovetosleep]

Well we haven't had a dirty nappy since 11am which is vast improvement on our one an hour of last night. So I guess I can go back to following the normal feeding pattern of a e month old? Ie 3-4 hourly? I wish I had a frequent feeder...

[ilovetosleep]

He just looks up at me with terror in his eyes when I try to feed him :( I am utterly heartbroken

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Oh, bless you, it's not your fault and he's not terrified of you. This would be happening just the same if he was formula fed.

[SandorClegane]

Are you able to just have lots of skin to skin with him? Maybe bathe together?

[ilovetosleep]

culture would it though? I have no idea. I really don't know if he has reflux or not. If he does, he certainly doesn't have it as badly as many babies. He is only fussy/crying at feeds. Does anyone know how long ranitidine takes to work/stays in the system? Our timeline goes like this:

Ranitidine started Monday night after 1week of Brest refusal and 2weeks of fussiness before that. Various other symptoms . By Thursday he was feeding normally again. Meds stopped on Monday because of illness, by Wednesday he was fussing and refusing feeds and by today (Thursday) totally on strike. We restarted the meds last night, so if it is that we sd see improvement by Saturday. What do you think?
Basically in the last 3 difficult weeks we have only had 4 days of good feeding and 2 of those he was really poorly!

I do bath with him every night and try skin to skin but tbh now the pressures on I get palpitations as soon as I pick him up in anticipation of the next attempted feed. That can't be helping.

I imagine some of the problem at the moment is tiredness and he just can't face feeding?

I'm a bit hysterical right now tbh. We just had to put him to sleep in buggy so that I can then wake him up for a bedtime feed. Bedtime feeds are usually the most calm! Feeling desperate :(

Btw hydration is ok I think, he's had enough enforced nap feeds today and lots more wees this afternoon. And the dribbles are back :) and diahrroea seems to have come to an end thank god

[ilovetosleep]

Just had a really shitty experience. dS just woke for his first night feed, usually easy and no probs, he fed well and then I help him up right for a little while. Just about to our him down and he did a big wet burp, followed by 20 mins of screaming and back arching. I could hear acid bubbling at the back of his throat.Then he writhed around a bit and do 3 massive green poos in a row. Well he obviously isn't over his bug, but that also screams reflux to me. But I'm now worried that horrible experience will put him off feeds even more. If he is put off night feeds where will we be?! Need to see docs again I think :(

[CultureSucksDownWords]

I think reflux would happen if a baby is prone to it, no matter what method of feeding you opt for. It's to do with a weakness in the stomach sphincter muscle, so the type of milk is not a factor.

I hope you are having a better night and that your DS is getting over his stomach bug.

[ilovetosleep]

He just refuse a 5am feed, from sleep, in bed. This is totally fucked. He's fed at 3 am in a deep sleep but I can't spend y life watching his sleep for signs of movement and then feeding him. Where do we go from here?! (Doctors obviously, but what will they do?)

[tiktok]

OP, really feel for you :(

There is so much anxiety and watchfulness and fear in your posts.

Is there anyone in RL who can help you by listening to your concerns and supporting you to see the wood for the trees, to have a plan which supports you in your wish to bf?

There is such a worrying tendency to catastrophise, to see the very worst, to fear the very worst in your posts :( For example, you say you could 'hear acid bubbling' in your baby's throat - scary, but it would be hard to know it was acid, and hard to know it was bubbling.

[ilovetosleep]

Yes I am suffering from anxiety, i know thisnis an issue. But it's impossible not to e afraid when your baby refuses to eat.

There is real life practical help, and medical advice, and a lot of people who support me in bf, but no lactation consultants or anything like that (not uk) I had I travel to get TT cut in the early days as its not recognised here. There is a very very lovely bf midwife at hospital but she was a bit baffled by my nursing strike. Everyone is tbh.

Ok the acid thing does sound melodramatic in the light of day. But it really did sound like bubbling in the back of his throat and he was clearly in agony, so much so that he has refused to feed since then even in the night when he usually wakes every 2 hours for food.

I really am afraid. I cling so much to bf to save my sanity, I feel like it's the most important thing in our world and I know that's stupid. We're going to te docs this morning, will see what she says.

[feekerry]

morning op.
hope you are okay. my ds is at times similar. he is 23 weeks. he has reflux too, i think. some of the things you describe sound similar. sun night ds was screaming/projectile vomiting. nursing strike too. took him to a and e at about 10am that morning as he hadn't fed at all in 11 hours!!!
the paeds didn't actually think he was dehydrated that badly as he was okay in himself. even tho virtually no wet nappies and sunken head etc.
he eventually fed after 14 hours when i took him in the bath ( tried something different).
ds has been on ranitidine for couple of weeks and it did work almost instantly. i think ds reflux is mild and comes and goes.
generally he only feeds every 3-4 hours and i freaks me out but i have come to accept it.
i know its hard but don't force the feeding. it makes both me and ds upset so i have learnt just to be really chilled about it and not make a fuss either way.
i would be at docs again asking to try the other types of reflux meds. most should work almost straight away..x

[tiktok]

"I really am afraid. I cling so much to bf to save my sanity, I feel like it's the most important thing in our world and I know that's stupid."

It's not 'stupid' but it is a reflection of your anxiety.

Breastfeeding cannot 'save your sanity'. Breastfeeding's great and a lovely thing to do, but it's not that powerful :) Without tackling the anxiety, breastfeeding could be the most wonderful, easy, smooth-going thing in the world, and your anxiety would not go, but it would either remain with the breastfeeding or be focussed on something else...hope you have a supportive partner/family, and that the doc can help you.

Really feeling for you here :(

[ilovetosleep]

Thank you all so much for coming back on here. I know I'm an anxious wreck and people like me aren't easy.

Anyway we saw ths doc who was t that concerned about dehydration yet. Although soft spot feels a bit low to me but he has wet nappies, good skin etc. It's bloody hot today too.

Am now s bit worried about supply. I managed today 3 pretty small sleep feeds at 930, 1130, 130 and I'd have thought that wld be enough to stop fontanelle sinking at all.

But one small miracle - he just latched on lying down and had a feed! Albeit a small feed during which he fell asleep after a couple if mins. But he carried on sucking in his sleep for 10 mins which must count for something right? I think he was still getting milk.

feekerry thank you for sharing your similar experience, it makes me feel at least I'm not alone! My doc this morning did say ranitidine could take up to 5 days to work, she also doubled his dose and told me to combine with gaviscon which should soothe his oesophagus/stomach if its still very sore. Am also trying to get pro biotics in him but I feel like I'm administerif something every hour esp as they can't all be given at once!

[tiktok]

I am going to stick my neck out and make a suggestion that there is nothing actually wrong with your baby, or your feeding, bar a possibly tendency to mild reflux, within the normal range. He was clearly poorly and feverish but he is more or less over that now.

Don't start trying to diagnose dehydration from the fontanelle - leave it to the experts. The doc has seen him and this should be reassuring.

Your supply will be fine - even if it dips a bit because he is feeding less, it will bounce back :)

Get help for your anxiety - it must be exhausting :(