4 1/2 months and STILL so windy!

[PollyP0429]

Was just wondering whether anyone else thought this might be a trip to the GP?

DD is 19+3 weeks to be precise and the wind can be horrendous :( it's heartbreaking to have to just hold onto her until she finally gives it up. She's Ebf and has nothing else, no bottles or dummies, and I feel like I've tried everything. Infacol, dentinox, gripe water even colief in expressed milk, all the different holds you could imagine, bicycling her legs, massaging her tummy and cutting dairy out of my diet. Nothing has helped.

It's mostly only at night and sometimes it's worse than others. I just don't know what else I can do...

[tiktok]

Sounds hard for both of you, polly.

Can you say a bit more about what happens when she appears to have wind? Could she be crying for some other reason?

[PollyP0429]

She screams herself hoarse a lot of the time - I usually try and fail to feed her then to help ease her throat, usually creates more wind. She'll be farting all the time and the occasional burp releases when she calms down for a bit.

She also pulls her ears and scratches her head a lot but I think that's cos she's tired and the wind is keeping her awake.

I know she fights sleep a lot though, too bloody curious, so there is that added frustration

[minipie]

Has she been checked for tongue tie?

Is she on any vitamin supplements?

How are her poos?

[Writerwannabe83]

Hi polly, is she still having the Colief, Gripe Water, Dentinox and Infacol and how often is she having it?

[PollyP0429]

Minipie she has a slight tongue tie, as she still feeds fine and gains weight ok ish the HV won't refer us. No vitamin supplements and her poos were fine - 1 or 2 a dsy for the last month or so and normal colour/consistency. When I tried infacol again in desperation her poos turned green and have been slightly less frequent, skipping a day every so often.

writer she just has the infacol before her evening feed and if I'm with it enough her night feeds too. Seeing as it doesn't seem to be working I might try the dentinox again. The gripe water she hates and the colief requires expressed milk, she getd nipple confusion so this is a no go area

[Writerwannabe83]

polly - I only ask because my DS didn't seem to respond to Infacol and like you I was really only giving it during his night feeds because he was most windy at night. I spoke to my HV who said that unlike with Gripe Water you have to give Infacol before every feed and it has to build up in the system before it actually has any obvious effect. She said it can take 3-4 days to start working. Me and DH then started giving it before every feed (sometimes up to 8-9 times a day) and after a few days we saw a marked difference.

After a few weeks though he seemed to be immune to it so we introduced Gripe Water as well and even though that was brilliant for burps we think it was causing stomach discomfort and constipation so we stopped it. But of course the wind returned then - we were constantly swapping from one product to the other with no real idea which was working and which wasn't We weren't really seeing any results so in the end my DH said enough is enough and we decided to just stop using anything - we thought the fact we were mixing products may actually be the problem. After about 36-48 hours DS was like a different baby and his screaming episodes stopped completely. This was well over a month ago now.

The last few nights though he has had a few little screams and if we really struggle to get wind up and DS is inconsolable the we do give a one- off dose of Gripe Water.

Dealing with wind can be a soul destroying nightmare - you have my sympathies.

DS is screaming now actually with wind....

[redtop1]

We were prescribed Junior Gaviscon for my 8 week (now 12 week) old. I was sceptical because his problem was "bottom wind" rather than burps or reflux, but two doctors and the HV I spoke to all said it was related and worth a try. I have to say it did seem to help. I gave two doses a day (out of a possible 6 - it goes according to weight). It's a liquid feed - using a cup was a nightmare so I used to suck it up into one of those syringes that come in the calpol boxes and give it before changes breasts (he is dbf). He seems much better in general now. Might be worth a try. Good luck - it is the saddest thing to witness in your little one.

[tiktok]

That sounds really difficult to cope with :(

It may not be wind. The fact you have gone through all the tried-and-tested remedies for wind (prob more than once from the sound of it) makes me think it's the crying that's causing the wind, rather than the other way about.

The fact this is only, or mainly, at night makes it sound not like wind at all.

95 per cent of babies who present to their HCPs with a problem to do with crying are basically fine - there is nothing physically wrong with them (leaving 5 per cent where there is an issue, so yes, it would be fine to see your GP).

Do whatever you need to do to calm her - whether this means co-sleeping (safely), or having her settle and sleep in your arms, or taking her out in the car, or whatever.

Does she settle if she comes into bed with you?

[minipie]

she has a slight tongue tie, as she still feeds fine and gains weight ok ish the HV won't refer us.

Argh. This sounds like our position. DD fed ok-ish (though not great latch) and gained weight ok. But was very windy and uncomfortable especially at night. (Although not screaming like you describe - yours sounds more like trapped wind?) I got her tt cut and it did make a real difference. Any chance you can go private? Where are you based?

[PollyP0429]

tiktok co-sleeping has never worked for us, where I'm overweight I'm too scared of squishing her, she picks up on it and neither of us sleep well. DH works evenings so I have no car to drive about in, I just end up pacing the floor until she gives a massive belch, she then slumps in my arms exhausted and I can put her down.

minipie I'm based in Essex, how much was it and how old was DD? Did she need a local or general anaesthetic?

redtop you're not the first to suggest gaviscon but when I asked the nurse when she had her last jabs she wouldn't entertain the notion... this is why I'm thinking about the GP

writer she was a newborn we gave it before every feed, didn't work then either. The dentinox did but shehates it, it stinks and you can only use it 6 times in 24 hours. I would persevere but it ends up more on her than in her

[minipie]

DD's was done at 16 weeks so a little younger than yours. No anaesthetic as I recall - she yelled loudly but very briefly and then fed and was fine. A bit like having jabs.

It was done by Graham I Smith at Kingston hospital - 80 - bit of a trek for you though. But there may be similar options locally if you google.

How is your DD's latch? Does she come off and on a lot during feeds, or just "nipple feed" without a good mouthful of breast? Does she seem to get upset towards the end of feeds? These were the signs for us that she had a bad latch and was taking in a lot of air (plus I could actually hear her swallowing the air sometimes!) - which was caused by the TT. If you don't have any of these issues and your DD has a good secure latch and feeds calmly, then I'd be looking for another cause.

[tiktok]

polly, I can understand about the nervousness related to co-sleeping.

Giving a huge burp after a crying bout really does not offer proof of wind as a cause. It could be the result of crying. There is very little evidence in the scientific literature that babies often suffer from 'trapped wind'. It may even be a developmental stage to do with the baby 'getting used to the world', and feeling these confused sensations especially at night, when he knows he is alone.

A baby crying in the night only, or mainly, is almost always just wanting to be snuggled up close to mum or dad.

If she had wind, or some sort of persistent gastric disturbance, it would not be confined to evenings/night time.

I do tend to be a 'wind sceptic' however, so you might think I am biased. I am applying logic here, too :)

If all you have as evidence for wind is the big burp after crying, then it's not strong....that is not to minimise the stress and concern you are bound to have about the problem, which is gonna be huge, especially after all this time.

No easy answers, sorry, but all the evidence is saying trying to deal with 'wind' is not helping.

[PollyP0429]

minipie I can also hear DD swallowing air, she will come on and off very often and I usually end up covered in slobber where she's not got her jaw and tongue far enough under my boob to milk it properly. The la leche league ladies were the first to mention it and the more I watch the more I agree. It's definitely something I would look into.

tiktok I guess it could be something else, its just that she rarely passes wind during the day, despite that I can hear it gurgling around in there and when I attempt to put her down for the night I can still hear it and she's farting and belching almost continuously. I think she creates more through screaming and she sounds as though she's in pain, the screams are sudden and do die down for a moment after a fart or burp.

Though I will admit that I've never seen a baby fight sleep so hard and she could just be getting frustrated with me. It just sounds so painful

[minipie]

Oh that sounds a lot like DD's feeding technique, pre snip. Slobber and frequent relatching - I used to have to wipe my boob so I could get her back on. Feeding in public was near impossible (and I am not shy!).

DD's wind was always worse at night too. I presumed it was because she was upright in the day so had more chance to get it out the top end. I really would try to get your DD seen by a TT practitioner - either twist your HV's arm, see a GP, or see if you can find someone private.

DD was also a sleep fighter and overtired so it was hard to sort out what was what. Partly just her nature (she still needs very little sleep at 19mo) but partly due to the wind waking her from naps and at night.

[PollyP0429]

Think I'll take her to the GP after all then, if he won't refer her I've found some independent practioners around here to talk to

[tiktok]

The coming on and off at this age, plus the slobbering, and the gulping down of air, sound like a latch issue, possibly tongue tie related....yes, good idea to get it checked out again.

[Writerwannabe83]

In alignment with what tiktok said - when I spoke to my HV about the wind and pleaded with her for help she said that in a lot of cases the excessive crying exacerbates the problem and causes more wind. She advised that I used a dummy so I could use that to soothe DS before the main screaming started. I was very reluctant to at first because of the breast/dummy issues but the point of desperation finally arrived and I did it.

Whenever I have successfully burped DS at bedtime but he still seems unsettled and I can sense a screaming frenzy about to start I just pop his dummy in and rock him/sing to him to calm him down and then put him in his Moses Basket where he typically falls asleep. The dummy really does work and stops things from escalating.

My HV said that babies can only really be 'winded' if they are relaxed so trying to do it whilst they are screaming is ten times harder. I find that when DS is relaxed and sucking on his dummy he will do lots of trumps, it maybe coincidental or it may just be that because he's so calm the wind is able to find it's way out.

[PollyP0429]

If she would t ake a dummy we'd be using it, sadly she just spits it out. We did notice she'll release the wind when she calms down, but getting her before then is damn near impossible.

I often wonder if she's just frustrated she can't sleep and that screaming causes the wind instead. It's obvious she's frustrated about something if nothing else

[tiktok]

Polly, just for the sake of science :), what would happen if you (or your dh) snuggled into bed with her when she wakes up and is upset?

You don't have to commit to co-sleeping, you don't have to do it all night, you don't have to ever do it again....but if she does settle more readily, you will know it is not wind.

[minipie]

... not taking a dummy is another sign of tongue tie (or can be)

realise I sound like a broken record here!

[PollyP0429]

tiktok for the sake of science, if she refuses to sleep after her night feed I shall try bringing her in to sleep with us - a cat nap is better than nothing after all :) honestly if I come across as antagonistic it's not intentional and I do appreciate the suggestions.

minipie I shall make her an appointment tomorrow and get that ball rolling lol

[PollyP0429]

Well co-sleeping proved unnecessary as she was a really good girl last night.

However she had one of her screaming fits today at a la leche league meeting, and I got some tips as to how to calm her down. One of the ladies also has some specialist dummies for tongue tie and shes going to bring me one next time, we'll see if that helps too.

Gonna try for docs appointment on Mon as they were all gone today

[carovioletfizz]

Have you tried looking at your diet Polly? I found my diet made a big difference to ds, after I ate certain things he'd scream the place down with wind that night - for me it was cheese, which I ate from time to time, and every time I did he would get awful wind - until I cut it out. I wouldn't have believed diet made such a difference until it happened to me. Worth a look www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-eating/breastfeeding/common-problems/colic-causing-foods-breastfeeding

[Definitelysometime]

I've just stumbled upon this during a panicky midnight google session. Did you find any relief polly?? My 15 wk DD sleeps worse than ever. Fights sleep and wakes almost hourly writhing and screaming. Doc says 'severe colic' but she's not even passing much wind. Am at end of tether! Not sure how much longer I can cope with three hours sleep a night and I have been to doctors so many times with no help really...