reflux and noisy when feeding - latch?

[Sleepstarved]

DD2, 4 weeks, has reflux and I am wondering if a noise she makes when feeding is making it worse.
She does not click as such, it is more of a tut. A sounds like a sucky noise you'd make if you tried to keep your tongue pressed against the roof of your mouth when tutting.
Midwife said to try and shift her around without taking her off but HV said take her off and start again, but she just does it again.
The latch itself looks good.
I think I have a stronger let down this time and she can pull off gasping, it sounds like she is drowning or the milk has gone down the wrong way. Is that contributing?
She is otherwise well, hardly lost any birthweight, at 3 weeks was over a pound heavier than birth.

[minipie]

i think you should get her checked for tongue tie. that tutting sound is clicking (just a different word) and is classic TT sign. reflux can also be linked to TT as they take in more air which brings the milk up.

She may not have it but it's worth a check, if it's a posterior TT it may not be obvious at first sight.

[Sleepstarved]

She was checked at birth and no TT. I asked for midwife to check as DD1 was TT (which was not done until late and then she could not relearn the latch).
The noise is very different to the clear click that DD1 made.

[Twattybollocks]

Have you checked for an upper lip tie? Is she able to flange her upper lip outward on the boob or is it tucked under? Also, have her checked by an experienced lactation consultant for a posterior tongue tie. Dd has both of these (I've given up trying to get them clipped because by some miracle I'm no longer in pain, she is settled between feeds and is gaining weight nicely) she makes both of these noises when feeding, the sharp clicking noise and the deeper suction breaking noise. She also has bad reflux and is on ranitidine for it which is helping enormously

[Sleepstarved]

I am not in any pain though when she is feeding. Could she be tongue tied but not causing me pain?
twatty it is exactly that, a suction breaking noise. It's not all the time, sometimes I can re-attach her and it stops or tilt her head, push her further in or tuck her legs in so she is almost wrapped around me and it will stop.
Also, she seems to be an efficient feeder. DD1 was TT and a feed would often take well over an hour. DD2 is only on for more than 20/30 mins if she has fallen asleep.
She is on gaviscon for the reflux and if I give I regularly morning and night, instead of waiting for it to get bad, then she can be very settled.

[RedKites]

Have a read of this information on Kellymom on oversupply and forceful letdown. I don't know that much about TT, so am certainly not saying it's not that, but the list of symptoms on the Kellymom page does fit what you've said quite well.

[BuntyCollocks]

I think this all sounds classic of a tongue tie - and just because a midwife says there's not one, doesn't mean she's right. I was told by a host of midwives and paediatricians with both DC that there was no tie. Both were severely tied. They don't know what to p

[BuntyCollocks]

Look for in my experience.

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

My dd does exactly this, at 4 months she was diagnosed with a tight upper lip tie and posterior tongue tie. We're going to have them both released laser surgery today.

[Sleepstarved]

Am very confused now, DD showing many of the symptoms of oversupply/forceful let down on Kellymom but also lots of tongue tie on milkmatters.
We are seeing GP later for reflux review so will discuss.

[CreatureRetorts]

Get her checked for tongue tie. The sounds you describe sound like my dd with a similar tie. I was told she didn't have a tie by so many people including BF counsellors but I went to a lactation consultant who specialises in ties and she spotted it a mile off. Dd could stick her tongue out a bit but would lose suction (she also had an upper lip tie). Lift up your baby's top lip - is there a line of flesh down the gum?

She also explained that reflux and over supply symptoms may actually be the tie. You can't rule it out especially as your other dd had one.

[CreatureRetorts]

*line of flesh joining the top lip to the gum? If so, she's got a lip tie and will most likely have a tongue one too.

[LazarussLozenge]

My little lad was tonguetied AND refluxy.

He had the tie cut (it was quite big) and is on gaviscon for the reflux.

Could you see a third person as you have two professionals (Midwife and HV) giving conflicting advice?

We also were tried on various different feeds to help (after trying breast feeding for as long as poss). He improved dramatically on SMA Lactose free (light blue top).

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

We're back from having the lip and tongue tie released, it was really stress free, minimal tears and no bleeding. She fed straight after and doesn't click! I also thought it was over-supply, forceful letdown until I noticed the very tight lip tie.

[LazarussLozenge]

It's no different from cutting your cuticles. No nerve endings in there at all.

I don't think he even woke up, when little lad was done.

Just the reflux to sort now...

[LazarussLozenge]

We used to hold him vertical aftr feeding (keeps the acid in the stomach) and lay him on his left (fr the same reason).

[CreatureRetorts]

How old when snipped? My dd was nearly 12 weeks and screamed blue murder.

[DeathMetalMum]

Can I jump on this thread? Dd 2 has very similar symptoms noisy clicky.gulping etc when feeding. Very windy coughing and spluttering sometimes. Dd1 had similar problems though was very sicky and weight juggled about a bit dd2 is sick occasionally and so far weight is fine. I thought the problems with dd1 were oversupply and mild reflux. However I have a little google on upper lip tie and it seems both have this I think (I have read it can be genetic). With no other problems dd2 is generally settled between feeds, and gaining weight well, I am not in pain. is it worth speaking to someone about the tie or just carry on?

[LazarussLozenge]

CreatureRetorrts,

the little lad was 10 days old.

[Sleepstarved]

GP doesn't think there is a tongue tie but she isn't check her lip and I think there is a bit there on the top lip and gum.
I've noticed DD can tend to tuck her bottom lip up a bit sometimes, I don't know how significant that is as DD1 did the same even after TT release and we fed without any further problems like that for over 18months.
Would talking to a health visitor do any good or should I go back to GP or even just go privately to a lactation consultant?
In the scheme of things her feeding is good (seems efficient and good weight gain, not asking for feeds constantly, alert) but suspect latch is not perfect. I would really like to help her wind/reflux though so she is more settled and could sleep on her back.

[LazarussLozenge]

Check yourself, if the little flap of skin under the tongue/lip is larger than you think it should be then you could ask a GP to look at it.

We found we got better nights by not breast feeding at night (using SMA lactose free). It isn't what wewanted but it worked and gave us some nights of rest!

You could speak to your GP about that too. Such feeds are available on prescription in some places.

[LazarussLozenge]

Oh, missed a bit.

We found that gaviscon helped a bit (he screamed pretty much 24/7 (which was nice)) and holding him vertical after feeding helped a little bit.

Eventually he was put on soy milk SMA (green top) and he changed pretty much immediately. He became a much happier chappy.

We've had a fair few mixes, but now we are on SMA Lactose free.

He's gone from screaming 24/7 to sleeping through the night by about 6 months.

[BadgerFace]

I had a similar thing with my DD, clicking, a lot of air intake and then associated wind but it didn't hurt when feeding so I left it as we evenutally established breast feeding after a difficult start due to a very sleepy baby.

At 8 weeks I felt that there was something still not quite right and had a private consultant come to look at her and a tongue tie was diagnosed (and cut there and then). I was told by 3 different midwives in hospital that there was not tongue tie so they are often missed so i'd recommend seeing a specialist rather than asking your health visitor.

I should have gone with my instincts and had it checked earlier but there was no pain so I thought things were okay. However, it's not necessarily true that no pain = no tongue tie.

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

I didn't have any pain, a midwife also checked for tongue tie and said she didn't have one. I'm glad we had it lasered, her latch is so much deeper now. The NHS will not clip lip ties though, we ended up going to a private dentist to have both released.

[Sleepstarved]

toomany the NHS did DD1's tongue tie and the Nice guidance on it says it should be available on the NHS.
I know the midwife and GP are not experienced in this, so wouldn't be surprised if DD2 does have one. I am going to talk to the health visitor again about it and ask for a referral.
We are giving small doses of gaviscon three times a day at the moment and it seems to take the edge off the worst of it, it is easier to get burps out too which obviously is better.
I am pretty sure DD2 has an upper lip tie but what I don't know is how important that is in the scheme of latch issues.

[LazarussLozenge]

Where are you sleepstarved? Are you in the South West by any chance?