How do I get DD to suck in more boob???

[Mafiti]

DD is now 8 weeks. She started off not wanting to suck at all, didn't start till day 4. Then she had a terrible latch, so very painful for me. At 5 weeks we found a posterior tongue tie, which has been snipped. Over time, she has finally learned to flange out her lips and she is taking in a bit more boob than she was, but I can't seem to turn that final corner to get her to take in the nipple right up to her soft palate. She kind of chews on the couple of millimetres of areola around the base of the nipple so does get milk, but not particularly efficiently and it is sore for me (as opposed to the agony we had before the TT snip).

She also only feeds for 5 minutes each side - I don't have super fast let down and she doesn't get huge amounts of milk because of her latch so I'm fairly sure she just gets tired. There's never any variation in the feeds (sometimes a snack, sometimes a binge) it's always 5 minutes and then comfort sucking and then fussing. She never comes off of her own accord.

When I try all the usual nose to nipple etc, she opens her mouth but chomps down the second I try and move her onto the boob. Other times she has left her mouth nice and open, but she just isn't sucking the boob back into her mouth far enough.

I've been so miserable, fighting desperately to continue BF rather than use formula. Things are now bearable so I don't feel like giving up, but that might change if we can't figure out this last piece if the puzzle.

Does anyone have any bright ideas on how I can get her to get a good mouthful of boob so she can finally learn how lovely it is to really fill your boots and pig out??? I'm hoping she might be more settled and sleep better, then, too...

[Atlastadragon]

Hi, I just wanted to post a quick reply. My dd2 feeds like this. She is six months now and I had a lot of trouble feeding her initially with pain and latch. She too fed for short bursts but has always put on weight ok. The only thing I can suggest is going to any local breastfeeding cafes or contacting la leche or the breastfeeding network to see if anyone can come and observe your technique. In the end we just sort of muddled through and it got better.

[Mafiti]

Thanks, atlast... I've been to every support group going so I'll keep doing that. Fingers crossed she gets there in the end. I sometimes feel guilty and wonder f I should be doing more/something different. It feels like I'm being lay, but taking her off and trying again just doesn't work. She's being weighed again tomorrow so as long as she's putting on weight, I kind of feel I just need to soldier on. She was ok two weeks ago, but only just. It doesn't feel like she's thriving as much as she could be, if that makes sense.

[PacificDogwood]

The breast sandwich can help if you have large breasts.

The lip flip made all the difference to us.

Sorry, I am posting and running away (DH might just cite excessive MNing in his divorce proceedings if I don't come to bed soon ), but I just wanted to point you in the direction of Dr Sears.
Also, google Dr Jack Newman - his site is v good too. YouTube has a video for the 'breast sandwich'.

[Abigail9580]

My DS was similar, we changed the position he sat in the bf. he kinda sat on my knee, legs either side of my thigh, then I could control his head with one hand and boob with the other. Then I use to stimulate my let down before he was on boob, then there was milk straight away, and I would kinda stuff boob onto his mouth! Not very dignified for him but it worked for us.

[BertieBotts]

YY sandwich thing is good. Some people call it the hamburger - basically you squash your boob so it's short and wide rather than pointy.

[Mafiti]

I've tried compression, hamburger etc but am starting to wonder if I'm doing it wrong. So if I'm feeding her in the traditional cradle hold, I've been squeezing my breast so that its flat in line with her mouth (so from the corners of her mouth). Should I squeeze so that its flat ACROSS her mouth instead? God, this is hard to describe! If I think of my nipple as a nurse's watch with the face upside down so that its correct from my viewing angle, am I flattening from 9 to 3 or 12 to 6?

[Atlastadragon]

Have you tried sort of reclining back and lying her on top of you? Google biological nurturing. I found that helped in getting her to open a bit wider.

[Atlastadragon]

Oh, and dd2 had a posterior tongue tie too. She had it snipped but it was not the amazing transformation in feeding I had hoped for. I met a mum at a baby group whose son had the same, and the dr who did her son's snip said it was something to do with the fact that they practise sucking in the womb and if their tongue is tied they haven't got the technique when they come out so they are in the back foot so to speak. Hope that makes sense!

[FuriousRox]

Push her onto your boob using the heel of your hand between her shoulder blades, rather than moving her head forward. That helps maintain the chin first thing effectively. Just an idea. Sorry you are finding it hard.

[McBaby]

Get the TT checked again scar tissue can form so latch improves but not 100% it may need to be recut. It took my LO a couple of weeks to relearn latch post final successful TT cut we had to have four!. Also look in to cranialcranial osteopathy it significantly improved our latch as muscles were very right where trying to suck and latch and couldn't.

[Beehatch]

We had to use the lip stroking technique to get a better latch as DS seemed to curl his lips in on the breast. So once they are attached push gently down on the chin with one finger, stroking that lip down and out. Then stroke the top lip up towards the nose, the aim being to have the lips rolled back outside of the breast. We did this for the first 6 months before feeding became trouble free.

[PacificDogwood]

If I understand you correctly your breast hamburger should be between 3 and 9 o'clock ie flattened breast in line with your mouth.

Have you considered the cross cradle hold? I ended up doing this almost exclusively as I found it much more comfortable, various DSs latched on better and I could actually see what their mouths were doing better IYWKIM.

[minipie]

lip flip helped us.

but what really helped was DD's mouth growing as she got older. hang in there.

[DeathMetalMum]

I agree dd's mouth growing also helped us. Tbh when things were no longer painfull for me and dd was gaining weight I just fed how I fed.

I spoke to someone recently about it as I am feeding dd2 now and was slightly concerned about similar problems - I tend to get slightly flattened nipples at the end of the feed I was always told this was a problem but this continued with dd1 for a while (fed til 22 months) once I had no pain and dd was gaining weight (around 6 weeks for both of these for us) I just continued the lady I spoke with said that the latch was just 90% rather than 100%.

[DeathMetalMum]

We didn't have tounge tie btw.

[Mafiti]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm afraid nothing is working. I've seen dr jack and dr sears on't net. She doesn't tilt her head back, so no use pushing shoulder blades. We do lots of biological nursing already too. just so frustrating that even with her mouth open wider, the boob still isnt far back enough, she's not getting as much milk as she could be and she still doesnt feed for long enough. Was doing the hamburger which can help with initial latch, but not enough. We're going for our fourth session of osteopathy tomorrow. I'm going to try and find another lactation consultant so someone can actually watch us feed and see if there's anything we can tweak. Her weight was OK on Friday, but she's slipping to the bottom of the centime and she'll definitely drop out of it by the next weighing. To keep up, she'd have to put on double the amount she normally does. :-( if she was feeding normally, I would forget about the weight but as I KNOW something isn't right, it's really upsetting. Is just want her to thrive. Instead she's just ticking over. :-(