help please - 8 week old fighting the breast and screaming

[Astrophe]

I've breast fed DS since he was born (8 weeks ago) - hes only had about 5 bottles total - sometimes he takes the bottle, sometimes not.

We got off to a good start with breasfeeding and his attachment was, and is, good. He is a good weight (9.1Lb born, now hes about 13Lb) and is strong and healthy, but when I feed him he screams and pulls of the breast, gulps air, goes stiff etc.

I know part of the problem is that my milk lets down very fast and he hates this. I've tried expressing at the beginning of each feed but it doesn't seem to slow the milk down at all. He has a favourite side. but sometimes wont feed off either. He never seems to take a good feed, and only sleeps for 2-3 hours at a time day and night.

I'm feeling very desperate - I want to keep feeding but am completely exhausted and also have a 2 year old to care for. I feel so guilty to be thinking of bottles, as I fed DD for 14 months. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[kiskidee]

is is possible that maybe he is not v. hungry? at 8 wks they can feed a lot faster than at 4 wks. he doesn't sound like he is going hungry.

hugs. bumping for you for the more experienced to see.

[Astrophe]

perhaps kiskidee...maybe I should stop fighting and try going with the flow *just like feeding a toddler) ...but I wonder why he wakes so often at night? We haven't had any luck re-settling without a feed at night...he gets v worked up and seems hungry...actually come to think of it, he feeds best at night when hes half asleep.

How often are others feeding a baby of this age during the day?

[Dinker]

This sounds like my DS who I realised I was trying to feed when he was in fact tired. he also suffered with silent reflux which may be worth looking in to too.

[tiktok]

Astrophe - a lot of what you say makes me think you may have a very generous milk supply. The excellent weight gain, the good attachment,the pulling off at the let down - it's all there.

Look up one-sided feeding in the archives under my nick and you will see a method that is definitely worth trying.

[Astrophe]

Tik tok I just searched but got 0 matches...must be doing something wrong. Any thoughts?

[tiktok]

Bloody archives - I can't find it, either!

basically, one-sided feeding means only ever offering the same breast for 4,5 or 6 hours on the trot, so every time you feed in that time you use that breast only. Then you swap and do the same with the other breast. You may need to gently hand express to comfort levels only on that unused breast.

Baby gets the amount of milk he needs, but it will be proportionately creamier, and with propoertionately less lactose, and let down will be far less 'firey' for him. After two days or so you will produce rather less milk, but it will still easily be what he needs.
Try it for a couple of days - it can't harm.

[Astrophe]

Thankyou Tiktok, I will definately try this. How do I know how long to keep on the one breast for? Two feeds? Three feeds? He goes about 2-3 hours between, sometimes less.

I feel better already having something to try...everything has just been deteriorating the last few days :(

[tiktok]

Don't count the feeds - just keep him on the same one every time he comes to the breast for up to 6 hours. In your case, that's about three feeds, but it could be two.

[Astrophe]

Ok, so its the amount of time not the number of feeds. Thanks a lot Tiktok...I will post again on this thread on the weekend and let you know how I get on.

[CaptainDippy]

Hello!! You could be me!!!!! I had exactly the same problems you describe with my DD2 - and I had 15 month old DD1 to look after while it was happening. It was an awful, stessful nightmare and I have every sympathy. I am not sure what advice to give out - I got a lovely breast-feeding counsellor from my local NCT branch to come out - and although she couldn't come up with any solutions, she gave me a lot of support and good advice. Mainly not to feel guilty (which I did for a long time as I fed my DD1 for a long time as well, definitely over the guilt now - mostly!!)

I wish that there was more I could say to help. I actually gave up breast feeding at about 3 month cos I just couldn't take it any more. DD2 didn't particularly like the bottle either and it was basically very, very stressful til I started weaning. I know that might seem a very long way to go right now, but it will come around surprisingly quickly.

DD2 is 11 months now, hardly has any milk, but eats like a horse! She still has bad days, but we are getting there. Just stay positive and focus on the better feeding times to come - you will get there, I promise!!

Meanwhile, please feel free to vent / chat with me on here or you can CAT me. I would love to help and support you through this cos I just know exactly how exhausted and frustrated you are feeling right now. //[[hugs]]

[Cadmum]

First let me start by saying that you are doing a brilliant job or your baby would not be packing on the pounds! It is so challenging in the early weeks to know when they are hungry and when they are just bored or overstimulated and tired.

My dd2 is also 8 weeks and seems to feed frequently during the day and goes for longer stretches at night.

I had real struggles with her in the first 2 weeks as the hospital gave her bottles but she seems to have settled for the breast. She does seem to be going through a particularly fussy time for the last 2 days. Could it be a growth spurt?

I am sorry that you are finding it so hard at the moment. Has he always done this or is the screaming and back arching recent?

Bottles are not really easier. He may have the same reaction and there is still no guarantee that he will have a 'proper feed' from a bottle and that involves lots of guess work and waste. (Plenty of experience in this Dept from my days as a nanny.)

I see that Tictok has been here during the time that it has taken me to type this and feed a baby etc etc. Her advice is brilliant! She is a true expert.

[Astrophe]

Ooh thank you CaptainD. I think I'm sort of in shock...can't believe this has happened to me after feeding for so long last time. To be honest I sort of thought most mums who "coudn't" breast feed were making excuses. Now I am getting my come-uppence!

I really want to keep feeding, but on the other hand I'm desperate to bottle feed as its so awful and I'm so tired. I have been told that he may not sleep longer at night even if bottle fed though. I will try this method that Tiktok has suggested, at least for a few days. I really though DS would have 'grown into' the fast milk by now, but he is getting worse.

Thanks for your support CD, its good to have someone to chat to. I just came to england in december and so don't have family of lots of buddies around to vent to.

[Astrophe]

Thanks Cad - I remember you from antenatal thread, our bubs are very close in age. Well, I am persevering for the moment...hopefully one day we will wake up and things will improve. I know he is ok health wise...but just so unhappy! And me too!

[Astrophe]

sorry Cad, didn't answer you. The screaming is the last 3 weeks I think...before that he had lots of wind but a good burp helped and infacolo helped a bit too. now he cries even at the start of a feed, before hes had the chance to get windy! At the beginning he was just unsettled as I was expect from a newbie, but now at 8 weeks theres been no improvement - actually he is worse!

[Witchycat]

Apostrophe - I posted something very similar when my dd was about 13 weeks. It seemed at first she preferred one side then it just got to the point where she never settled & only really fed properly when she was really tired. It took a while to figure out & at first I was highly sceptical but in the end I think she was just an incredibly 'distractable' baby. She could never be bothered feeding more than a few minutes & would rather watch her brother, the cat, anything rather than concentrate on feeding.

I'd never heard the term before but La Leche League suggested it and their solutions helped. They were:
-Always feed in darkened, quiet room (restrictive I know, but had to go through it to get her more settled)
-Take top off so she had loads of skin to skin contact
-Don't give bottle as it could confuse her/put her off breast (hard I know when you're going through what you are at the moment)
-Some say give baby something to fiddle with - you can get 'breast feeding necklaces' but I found letting her pinch my arm while she fed helped -anything she could keep her fingers occupied with.

Eventually, she grew out of this phase. I'm not trained & TikTok knows way more than I do. Worth trying her suggestions, definately.It's just what you described sounded so familiar. I'll see if I can find some old threads to see if they help.

Good luck

[Witchycat]

Have a look at \link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1364&threadid=103432\this thread} to see if it helps.

[Cadmum]

Don't give up. He will settle. I like the idea of something to fiddle with. DD2 always holds the folds in my t-shirt. My friend's adopted ds never slept more than 3 hours until he was 3 months and he was bottle fed...

I am here if you want to compare notes. I try not to count or time the feeds once the baby is obviously growing. (might make me mad otherwise) I even removed the alarm clock from my bedside table so that I don't fret over how often she is awake.

[beartime]

Have you tried feeding lying down on your back or reclining really far so it doesn't come out as fasr?

[Astrophe]

I have tried that Beartime, but thanks. Nothing seems to stop or slow the gushing milk!

Thanks Witchy and Cad. I read those other threads and have got some ideas to go on with...

I've taken Tiktoks advice re. feeding on one side only for 6 hours...he actually seems more settled already, which could be a miracle or a coincidence :o ...lets hope a miracle.

Thanks everyone for your support and advice.

[Astrophe]

tiktok I have a question! If he seems hungry between feeds, do I hold him off for his 'normal' feed time, or just feed as much as he likes off the one breast? I fed him 1 hour ago and he is asking for more (I think),

Also, if this works, for how long do I continue feeding like this?

THanks in advance!

[Cadmum]

Do you think it might be a growth spurt? DD2 has done nothing but feed or fuss for the last two days...

I would suggest feeding him if he is 'asking' but then I seem to always be feeding dd so perhaps my advice is bad?

[Olipop]

Astrophe - I don't have much advice but can add that I have had the EXACT same problem (even down to better feeds in the night when bubba was sleepy). Can you let us know how the one boob feeding goes as could do with reducing the flow somewhat! People get jealous when you say you can express a bottle full at ten paces but its not fun when your baby is drowning and choking and your bed is soaked.
Good luck - keep us posted.

[cheeseypeas]

Your baby sound EXACTLY like my DS was. You may have an over-abudent milk supply. You can reduce it by keeping him on the same breast for X number of hours (experiment to find out how much). Savoy cabbage leaves in the bra can also help but be careful as this can reduce the supply too much if you are not careful. You could also try 'compression' feeding where you gently but firmly squeeze the breast (after the letdowns have stopped) and enchourge the baby to stary interested and get to the hind milk.

This is what I tried and it resoved itself quite quickly. Good luck and keep smiling.

[Astrophe]

Have been feeding the little monkey since my last post! But he has just come off and is happily asleep, hopefully for many hours!

Crikey Cadmum...if this is a growth spurt I will have to go ang buy him some new clothes...he is already a whopper and wearing 3-6 month size! :o

Olipop thanks for the luck - right back at'ya! I will keep you posted over the next few days.

[Astrophe]

Thanks cheese, am already doing the one side thing, will try compression as well.

Oh bother...DS woke up and hopped back on!