^I only learnt that Johnny Depp was supposed to be starring in it the other day. Can't conceive of him playing Jean-Dominique, he'd be way too kooky and bird-like. I imagine J-D to be large, strong, not handsome, very French.^

That is exactly what the real Jean-Do was like. Tall, dark, plump and not particularly attractive, but everyone in his orbit fell in love with him...

I only learnt that Johnny Depp was supposed to be starring in it the other day. Can't conceive of him playing Jean-Dominique, he'd be way too kooky and bird-like. I imagine J-D to be large, strong, not handsome, very French.

Have still not managed to get to cinema but praying some small flea-pit somewhere will still be showing it next week.

squonk, you're totally forgiven and see you for April's chat on Tuesday 29th.
CocoBear, am v happy you enjoying the club, I am too (its my first book club - at Penguin I used to talk to reading groups all the time but never had one of my very own)

Hope everyone's managed to get a copy of Fall on Your Knees - Amazon seem to have a very long delivery time, so I'd try Blackwell or Waterstones if you need it sent to you.

Sorry I missed this as Diving Bell is one of my favourite books..I've ready 10 times plus.

But must give HUGE recommendation to the film - it's probably the best film i've seen in 5 years... and I see loads of films! Just stunningly beautiful and so moving and uplifting...it's not grim at all, just like the book. I went alone as other half doesnt like "medical" films but i'm going to buy the DVD and I am sure he'll like it too.

And Mathieu Amalric is absolutely HOT in this and so charismatic, sexy and cheeky....he owns this film. I'm so glad that Johnny Depp was too busy with those pesky Pirate films to break away and make this. It is perfectly French.

Did you have a passenger with remote internet access? They could have posted salient and extremely insightful points on your behalf. I think that's worth bearing (bearing?) in mind for next time .

well... I was stuck on the M62, my mobile ran out of power and (perhaps most importantly) I was driving

what sort of half-assed excuse is that?

hi everyone. Sorry I missed this last night - I was stuck on the M62 and didn't get back till 9.45 (you'd all gone by then anyway)

For me, the one thing that summed up his inability to do anything for himself was when the orderly left his room one evening, switching the telly off on his way out - it was half time in the football match that Jean-Dominique was watching!

Anyway, I'll definitely be around for the next chat.

Thanks for this everyone. Looking forward to the outcome of the vote so I can get hold of the next one!

Hello-I came back for the last bit of the chat but you've all gone!! Anyway, thanks Tilly-I agree this is a great book club and I've had fun with the book choices these last few months (though this is the first time I've joined in the discussion)!
I'm also looking forward to the film...
See you in April

I'd love to see the film. DH says there's no way he's going to watch a 3-hr film about a man winking, so it's out of the question for date night!

Thanks Tilly! I'm loving this book group, I'm reading the books every month even if not contributing to the discussion. Bet there's loads of lurkers out there...

And just to add thanks everyone and will let you know results of Aprils poll this Friday, 8pm
Tx

Yup, we can wrap it up early as it's pretty quiet anyway with Easter and all.

notyummy, had the same thought, was sure I remembered it being MUCH longer and then felt just a wee bit demanding when I wished he'd done another 100 pages.

Not seen film, but I know it has had stellar reviews. Will def watch dvd.

My last question is if anyone's seen the film yet - and if so, did you think it was as good as the book? I am dying to see it, can't imagine how they have translated all these qualities of the writing.

oooh, we are dropping like flies!

Mind you, it is a very short book, so a short thread was likely!

(Although I am sure it didn't feel short when you wrote it with one eyelid....)

Will need to love you and leave you-have to sort out DD, and DH is wanting the computer!

CocoBear, i heartily agree, I loved the fact he was still a grumpy, quite greedy Frenchman who hadn't miraculously become a saintly figure with all the edges smoothed off.

I don't know of any other book about disability like this one. I've heard about Sue Townsend's book but haven't read it.

it is interesting when he notes the other hospital patient's reactions during the physio sessions - even though they are physcially impaired themelseves they can't really look him in the eye. Everyone is prejudiced.

I wonder if he was a patient person in a previous life, or if the position he was in forced it on him?

I am RUBBISH at being patient and can'y help thinking that iw ould just go spare..

I think I constantly question the fundamental essense of myself...every time I think I've figured it out, some new situation happens which turns my thinking on its head!!
Re coping mechanisms, I'd like to think mine would be memories of loved ones and music (as opposed to the pillow over the head!), but really don't know how I would cope if something as major as this actually happened to me.

Got to go bath...

Oooh, gotta go eat...

Not so much the scientific breakthroughs but the everday care, moving him, leaving him in the same position for too long, turning off the TV or it being on too loud, curtains, not being drawn etc

good point sophiewd, I wonder if they made any scientific breakthroughs thanks to him? I hope that the nursing staff took some of those comments on board...

arti, did it make you wonder what the fundamential essence of ''yourself' was. I thought his comparison with the Beirut hostage guy was interesting - his way of coping was to recite good wines. Bauby recalls good meals and books and places he's travelled. I wondered what my mantra would be... probably a mix of memories involving family and books I'd read.

I love the way he says he can go anywhere in time or place and float off on those imaginary journeys. But I think if I did that whilst locked-in I might go insane. Reality would become very indistinct.

I thought his achievement was quite literally incredible: to put together such beautifully constructed, coherent sentences and paragraphs when he had to spell out each WORD so painfully painfully slowly.

I gues we have the (relatively) rare combination here of someone who was a writer becoming disabled, so the book has artistic merit, rather then just being an explanation of the condition.

Are there any other books of this nature out there? I vaguely remember Sue Townsend writing something on her disappearing eye sight.

You could see that he hadn't become a saint because if the stroke either (people are often sanctified as 'brave' etc etc). He was still what he had been: cosmopolitan, a bit vain, a bit shallow, a bit selfish, warm, loving, and heart-breakingly aware of the things he had lost.

I also liked the structure of the book, and was blown away by the fact that he actually managed to write and edit it in his mind-the end product being something I thought was far more readable, eloquent and honest than many books I've read.
Sophiewd-I'm in the medical field and I agree the book does give an amazing and unique insight into what people can be capable of despite having such a debilitating condition-it is so easy to forget this in the often dehumanising medical environment.

Hi! Bit late! I thought the book gave a real and rare insight into severe disability. Despite paying lip service to disabled 'issues', society on the whole views those who are very physically disabled as another, unfortunate species, rather than people like you and I, but with a motor impairment. The author remained himself, despite the stroke.

On a lighter note, my fully house trained DH is curently washing the kitchen floor, having done the dishes (after putting dd to bed).

I may allow him 10 minutes on the wii for good behaviour

I think part of the artistic merits comes from the shortcomings of his condition. He has only limited physical experiences and has to describe them in depth because he doesn't rush around doing a lot of things.

Equally, I think the passages when he describes his past life also benefit from his enforced period of reflection.

I think the qualities that led him to write the book are those that also led him to his career as chief editor as Elle, and it made me think about how despite his paralysis, his intact mind and his determination and strength allowed him to retain that fundamental essense of himself.

I also think this must be of major use to the medical world about the insights into someone awho does have a major stroke and how much they can feel or be aware of

Another thing that struck me: the structure of the book worked so well in giving you short insights into his cocoon. It was similar to visiting him in hospital and tuning in to his mind, and each time there’d be something different. I think teh writing and the structure both have a clairty to them that must have come from all the perfecting and honing he did in his mind.

What did everyone think of the artistic merits of the book?

He obviously didn't want to die, and possibly the only way he could try and redefine himself as someone who had a life to live was by writing the book.

Arti, i agree - the way the kids cling on to his dad-ness and try to hold it together is very moving. The way he describes the pain of not being able to hug his son is almost unbearable.

morningpaper, I think I would demand pillow too. But only because I don;t believe I would ever be able to write a book like this one.

I want to know what combination of qualities led to the author doing this book and not giving up. he sounds like he's quite proud, and determined to prove the gossipers wrong about him being a vegetable. But it must be more than that. Because most people I know would want a pillow over the head straight away and sod writing a book.

Tilly

What I thought was that he retained his humanity, even though he was in some ways what people have termed 'a vegetable', he used the only means he had to let others know that he was still there and still human.

Apparently there are people with the same syndrome who cannot communicate AT ALL...even with one eyelid. That is torture, and I think I would quite literally go insane.

Hello I am here, changed cookery class so can make it. Thought it was an incredibly sad little book and if I was in his position I would have wanted out immerdiately and not hang around like that. My sister who is a nurse says that level of paralysis is extremely rare. I did read an article somewhere which was done with his estranged partner (the mother of his children) about how he left her and the children and then she became his carere.

Ahhh but he didn't feel that he'd lost his humanity did he?

Whereas I am quite sure that I would just spell out K-I-L-L-M-E

I am a total wuss

What I thought was most horrific was that he appeared to have had an affair, left his wife and children, moved in with his girlfriend and THEN a couple of weeks later had this stroke!!! I mean how bad luck is that? You would be kicking yourself

(if you could move a leg)

Ultimately I found the book uplifting...that someone can suffer such a terrible blow and yet still be unbroken in terms of his reasoning and his ability to enjoy aspects of life.

Hi all

Slightly fractious toddler this evening, so may need to rush off at short notice. I have read it, however, and I'm ready to pontificate....

Hi Arti, nice to have you.

I thought the most inspiring bit was how important it is to keep communicating. he could so easily have given up and not bothered to write this book, but the fact he wanted to tell everyone how it felt, and how he loved them and their letters, and all his ideas still pouring out.

I kept thinking that if you were unable to move but you could at least speak to loved ones and tell them what you are feeling and thinking, then the boredom and physiucal pain of paraplegia would be manageable. But to be on the phone unable to reply to your daughter, that is the real hell. And he says that he finds the lack of humour one of the worst things too – by the time he’s communicated the joke, it has lost its moment.

I came away from it thinking that to lose communication is to lose your humanity.

(okay, i feel verrrry pretentious now, but couldn;t find a way to say that without it sounding poncey)

A few other thoughts...
I will never think about Sunday in the same way again!
One (of many ) lines in the book really touched me..."even a rough sketch, a shadow, a tiny fragment of a dad is still a dad". There is something so very human and honest about the way he puts this, and it reminded me just how very special and amazing being a parent really is.

I think I found it too sad to be positive. I couldn't think "Oh what a great triumph of human achievement!" I was just thinking "This is absolutely fecking terrible. Imagine if that was ME." I think it would be the most horrific thing in the entire world. I am rubbish with pain and/or anything remotely debilitating. I told DH that if that happens to me, I want a pillow over my head pronto, please.

Hello all. I'm a newbie to the group and glad to be part of it, especially after reading such a remarkable book. I also felt very uplifted by it, with a sense of awe about what the human mind is capable of, with this book being proof! I normally get boks from the library as opposed to buying them, but this one is an exception and will definitely be a source of inspiration to me.

It made me think I shoudl stop moaning about my bad back

Evening all…

What really struck me as I re-read Diving Bell and Butterfly is how, well, positive it mostly is. There’s a passage about ‘cultivating the art of simmering memories’, where he is remembering tastes and the beef is always perfectly cooked, the raspberries exploding on the tongue. Bauby describes the flights of his imagination in such uplifting terms that he makes you glad to have a mind and to be alive. It makes you determined to use your own imagination far more. The horrors are all there, yet I felt uplifted.

How did everyone else find it - positive or too sad to be positive?

ooh that voting is snazzy

This is the salon to come to for March Book of the Month discussion night where we'll be getting stuck into The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Looking forward to seeing you all here between 8-10 next Tuesday 25th.

And don't forget you can now vote for April's book - a selection of Unsung Heroes - here