I read this on holiday back in October and never got round to joining in the discussion but did want to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the book.

i think it should be the default way plse - for all ads stuff.
what version we on now?

read thebook on holiday (got back yesterday)
really enjoyed it
gutted to have missed ythe chat and Mr Matar himself.
just wanted to stick my oar in and say my tuppence on the characters;

thought the mum was v real, and love HM's saying that she was the real hero of the book. i thought everything she did was totally understandable in the circs she was in. her anger and frustration at having her life dictated at such a young age - who wouldnt be? she was married off to a stranger for rules she didnt understand - and that stranger then had total charge of her destiny. she never once got to decide how she wanted her life to go and i think that can be crippling. the drinking; id have done that too. and it stopped when baba was home because it had to. her feelings for baba and the way they evolved were understandable too - obv she wasnt too keen to start with, but once she is married to him what choice does she have but to accept him and the fact that his fate and actions are inextricably linked to her own?

am surprised at anger towards the boy. with so little info how on earth was he to be expected to deal with the situations put before him? and his concern and affection, almost dependence on, his mothers affection and confidences when she was drinking were so touching.

the father i know least about b/c thats who S knows leastabout. sounds to me like he genuinely wanted to make things better for his country and everyone in it and whats to dislike about that? he should have helped his son (and wife?) to understand better what was happening, or at least how best to help him and survive themselves, but thats easy to say from afar.

thought it was a fab book, with v believable, human characters. bravo.

Delighted everyone enjoyed it - Hisham certainly did, so thanks to you too...

Looking forward to seeing tonight's result for November's choice. Just a reminder to vote [http://www.mumsnet.com/bookclub/November2007.html here] if you haven't already

Thanks from me too.
I was called away from the chat last night and was gutted to miss most of it.
It is great to read back through though. Fantastic having Hisham Matar participating. Thank you Tilly & Mumsnet HQ for arranging.
Looking forward to next month.

Thanks for organising that visit from Hisham Tilly-good to get insight to the writers craft!

Vote here for November Book of the month, if you haven't already.

Thanks from me too...very interesting! I will look forward to the final outcome of the vote so I can order next months book from amazon!

Maybe next month if DD has stopped waking up at 4am I can stay up past 10pm too! Thanks Tilly and MN towers for organising this.

Just got back home and caught up - such a good chat

I miss qouted Bellow, and that is a dangerous thing. So, just before I go, what he said was that a boring book is an unethical book; not that an unethical book was boring. A very different thing indeed. Good night.

I agree, I think her prose is extraordinarily clear yet so unusual. She's very talented. I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone here thinks...

Thanks again for being a true star, and I hope you have something delicious waiting for you...

Thank you Hisham for your book and for coming on Mumsnet to talk about it

bye bye, Hisham, and thanks again.

well.... it's not me, I have no illusions about my ability to write, but isn't there a book in us all?

It would be great if you could join us for our next discussion

TillyBookClub,
Thanks. I will keep it in mind.
Now I must clock off. Not to sleep, but to eat.
Thanks to you all. And enjoy The Gathering. Anne Enright is a marvelous writer.

Squonk,
Of course it is not you...
Read and write. Those are the two things that help the most after living. And read the best, and try to write better than you ever thought you could.

Not a question but an invitation - it looks like The Gathering will be Mumsnet's November Book of the Month (its got the most votes so far, final result announced Thursday 6pm) so if you fancy joining the discussion on that book, please come along... Would be fascinating to get your take on it.

TillyBookClub,

It is way too early for me to go to bed. So please don't worry.

As I said before, I cannot explain why Suleiman did what he did. All I know is that it seemed truthful. It was his nature. His ability or inability. He is fallible. Like the rest of us. He regrets and wants to be better and fails and regrets again. Talking about reactions to the book that have surprised me, this is one of them. I am surprised that he is seen as being all that bad. I think he did fairly well with the cards that were dealt him. But I would say that, wouldn’t I? Because I love him. You can’t write about people you don't love. I even loved those two that tied the noose. I have no choice. To write is to love.

Thanks for answering. Your quote about an unethical novel being boring is really interesting - I'll keep that in mind when reading your next one, too.

Hisham - if you could give one piece of advice to a would-be author (not me, btw, I'm just curious) what would it be?

yajorome,
Saul Bellow was once asked if novels should have an ethical drive. He said that novels should be, above all things, entertaining. That an unethical novel is a boring one. So I hope that those who read my book find it entertaining. This is me the novelist speaking. But as a citizen, as a British citizen, I take my government to task about its chumminess with the Qaddafi regime.

Going back to Suleiman's motivation Hisham - why do you think he was so destructive with regard to the things/people that were precious to him? His friendship with Kareem, his mother and fathers' safety?

One question that we didn't get to, something that beanymum and JustScreamMumsnet brought up - does Suleiman deliberately set out to punish his parents with his betrayal, or is it naive, thoughtless behaviour?

And would love your thoughts on yajorome's question about Myanmar and Libya..

(sorry, there I was telling you to go to bed and now I'm piling the pressure on)

I am readying the entire works, or those in translation at least, of Rober Wolser. An excellent Swiss-German author. But stopped to read The Gathering, which I have just finished.

Thanks for your time Hisham it has been fun. Will def. find out a bit more about Libya.

ooh, good question susan

What do you hope people will take away from the book? It certainly helps bring the spotlight back on political prisoners and the abuses of the regime. Is there more or any action you hope people will take?

Here's a quick one - what book(s) are you reading now? (Loved the Borges reference)

Oops - didn't mean to show you the door! It just took me a bit to post...

Excellent chat - thanks for coming and very sorry to hear about your dad and uncle. It's great that your uncle heard you on the radio!

Yes, I am still here. This is more fun than I thought it would be.

It has been a pleasure.

Hold on a minute.....for those of you still here, Hisham has very heroically said he'll stay online and answer questions for another 20 minutes. So do fire away if there's one more thing you'd like to ask...

beanymum,
He might know about the book. My uncle, who is also a political prisoner in Libya but is allowed visits, heard an interview I had given to the BBC Arab World Service.

Many thanks Hisham - great to meet you.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Looking forward to the next book.

Yes, thank you.
<goes off to order history book>

thank you Hisham, it was a pleasure to "meet" you. Good luck with the next one.

And I now know how to spell Libya

Hisham, you've been a brilliant virgin web chatter - hope it was good for you too... thank you very very much indeed for answering all our questions and giving us so much insight into your excellent novel.

We'll all be looking out for the next one, and in the meantime, good luck with the hard graft of writing it.

Tx

Well you have certainly opened up my eyes to the situation in Lybia - I suppose that your father does not know that you have written the book.

so sorry, hisham. Do you get any news of him?

beanymum,
My father was one of the most prominent opponents to the dictatorship. We have no contact with him. The last letter he had smuggled to smuggle out and that had reached us was 1995.

So sorry to hear about your father. I can't imagine how awful that must for you and your family.

Hisham I'm very sorry to hear that your father has been a victim of the regime. Do you know what his "crime" was and do you have any contact with him?

ChampagneSupernova,
Apart from the fact that it got published, the presumption that it is autobiographic.

The execution scene was particularly horrific.

Do you despair the short attention span of people and countries? Do you have any hope that things will change in Libya - does what's happening in Myanmar change your views on what needs to be done by the outside world? Or are they two different situations that only seem similar on the surface?

What has surprised you most about people's reactions to the book? (other than that you wrote it at all, if it was a secret )

beanymum,
I would not know. But I would be very surprised if they didn't. After all, my father is held in one of their prisons, and has been since March 1990.

TillyBookClub,
There is an excellent book by Mansour O. El-Kikhia, who is professor at the University of Texas, I think, called Libya's Qaddafi: The Politics of Contradiction. In it he unpicks the complexity of the Qaddafi rule. It fairly well written, and short. But very much written in an academic style. Still worth reading, I think.

Hisham - would the Lybian government have a file open on you or would they not consdier you under their influence or a threat that could be contained anymore?

Hisham, in light of your Gadaffi answer and also to pick up on a few requests a while back - could you recommend an accessible book about Libya and its history for those who want to find out more?

(feel free to do this at the end of the session, when it is a bit quieter)

MadamePlatypus,
I don’t plot before I write; so I rarely know what will happen next. I like it that way because it keeps me on my toes and reminds me that being the Author, the authority over the narrative, is an illusion. So, it was a complete surprise that things had turned out so well for Kareem. Or so well from Suleiman’s point of view. Kareem is lucky only in Suleiman’s imagination. Who knows how Kareem feels?

Good question madamplatypus. I would like to know if the character's destinies were planned at the beginning ar evolved as the book was written.

MadamePlatypus,
‘Acceptable in the West’? Yes. But less unjust to his own people, no.

Another question please - when did you decide what would happen to Kareem? Did you know he would have a 'happy' ending at the beginning of the book?

CarrieonScreamingMumsnet,
Not weird, but close to it. Very flattering too. The characters in the book don’t seem real in the way that my family and friends do. They exist in language and have oddly become more mysterious, not less, the more I got to know them on the page. For instance, I still cannot see Suleiman. I have no idea how he looks like. But were he to step into my study now, God forbid, I would recognise him. Writing the book I sometimes caught his scent. That was enough.

Thank you Hisham.

I also have personal experience and wondered as I read as the book as you describe it so well both from the alcoholic's and the alcoholic's family's perspective.

Loved the book by the way and it's great to get our individual questions answered.

I agree. Sending away my son would be the most selfless thing I could do... am not sure that comes out right, but am hoping you know what I mean! It doesn't bear thinking about.

Hisham, do you think the Gadaffi is becoming more acceptable in the west? I googled the top Libyan news stories and they were all about oil treaties, Italy paying reparations for colonialism and Darfur peace talks.

Ooh good question Carrie - please answer that one! Is it very strange to hear people dissecting your work like this?

The thought of sending my children away without knowing if I would see them again is heartbreaking

cosmicdancer,
Yes, I am afraid I have. It is a very unpleasant thing. But was useful in writing this book.

Is it weird to sit here listening to folks discussing your characters as if they were real people, or after five years of living with them do they feel real to you? is that how it has to feel when you are writing a novel?

Hisham - I'll just have to keep refreshing Amazon then

I agree, tilly, it was a selfless thing to do. I think she suspected that she would never see him again, but he would be better off

Squonk,
I have pledged a vow of silence. Not out of superstition as much as I feel that the book I am writing now owns all of the language that can describe it. Some of my most intimate friends were shocked after I finished In the Country of Men; they had no idea that in the five years they knew me I was writing a novel. I intend to keep the same practice. But thanks for asking.

Yes, the mother does seem to lurch from one extreme to the other. I think she was a hero to send him away, because his Libyan future looked so bleak and his life means more to her than anything else. I reckon that was a very courageous decision.

What a depressing thought that we betray others every day. But true, I suppose. Something to work on.

Are you making political comments other than the obvious in the book - I mean, do you sit there hoping people come away with x, y and z? I read a column you did in the IHT (or maybe it was republished there) in February about America's not doing more about human rights violations in Libya. Is there an action that you hope people will take after reading it? The book really brings across a piece how it is to live in that kind of uncertainty and fear.

Hisham, I agree about the mother's dual personality. Have you personal experience of someone with an alcohol problem?

I imagine that the execution scenes were plausable in that regime. It reminds me about Taliban executions in afganistan where they took place in stadiums in front of a large, frenzied crowd. How come people become a part of that whole thing? It seems to be relected in many instances how betrayal and compliance with atrocities becomes the norm for everyone. Would we all be so weak in such a situation?

Suleiman certainly came across as real so it's interesting that you don't have children but have obviously observed well. As you'll see from the discussion, a lot of folks were angry about Suleiman's actions and betrayals - did you intend him to come across as naively/ unknowingly betraying or as someone deliberately setting out to cause waves?

Also I have to say spending such a long time in a 9 year old's head made me think back to what I was like as a child at that age and it's certainly made me wonder what on earth is going on in my 9 year old daughter's mind (and life)!

TillyBookClub,
I think I have answered this already, but I will try to say more. I have not met two people who agree about the mother. She loves and hates in equal measure. She is terribly irresponsible, and terribly responsable. She is, I think, the true hero of the book.

The execution scene actually made me feel physically sick.

MadamePlatypus,
Guilt is ultimately an abstract thought. It is based on our imagining of how the other feels, or on how we imagine ourselves to feel. Guilt is a kind of disappointment, where our idea of ourself does not correspond to our actions. Suleiman feels guilty not to have been there, regardless of the practical reasons to why he was not able to return.

Hisham, this work asked me to confront disturbing facets of human nature (esp the execution which i read as quickly as possible). were you motivated to expose and alleviate this trauma or are would you like to teach us something specific...or something else? Big thanks.

I loved the book too - I hadn't heard of it, didn't read the blurb or anything and just went straight for it.

thank you. I loved the book, by the way.

Another question, if you don't mind... When is the next book due out and is it also set in Libya?

(oops, that was two)

Hisham, I think we're all (unsurprisingly!) intrigued by the mother and have quite a few questions about her - could you shed some light on her character, the way she feels about her hsuband (does she love him?), the reasons for her weakness?

That's an amazing way of looking at it - that your book is like the one under Suleiman's pillow.

Hello Squonk,
Certainly not speaking for the people of Libya or anyone, not even for myself. I was, as you say, telling a story. That is what I do.

Hisham, would it really have been possible for Sulieman to return to Libya? He seems to feel guilty about this? Was his guilt because he felt he should have done military service and seen his parents again?

TharSheBlows
I will respond to this even though it is a repeat. Although the book is not autobiographical, some, fearing or expecting others would think it was, were worried and urged me to change certain things. They were also worried about my safety. But the thing is, the work asserts itself in ways that are surprising. After a certain point (I don’t know when that is) you have little authority over it – no authority whatsoever if it is worth its salt. The Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges said (I am paraphrasing) that a writer authors the work, then the work writes the author. Certainly been true in my case. No sooner had I finish the novel than it started spreading rumours about me. (And no, I don’t begrudge it. Not one little bit.)

yajorome,
Greetings to you and to your son.
Suleiman is not alone in his acts of betrayal. Everyone in the book, in someway or another, betrays someone. It is almost the engine of the narrative. And who amongst us does not betrayal someone or, more often, themselves, at least once a day?

Notyummy,
I think both. But more than that I think she needed him.

hisham - hi

do you feel that in writing the book, you were speaking for the people of Libya? Or were you just writing a story?

Giggi,
Hello.
I am allergic to generalizations, so I cannot say how Libyans in general feel about my book. But from those who have read it and written to me the reactions have been positive. No one has written about Libya in such a way before. Not even in Arabic. Literature dignifies what it focuses on, even if when it exposes shortcomings and failings. And so most have told me how good it felt to read themselves, or things they remember. Some exiles have found in it a kind of return. The book is not sold in Libya (needless to say, the authorities are not thrilled by it) but both the English and Arabic editions have been smuggled in and disrepute clandestinely. I am still nudged by the thought that my book, my little book, has returned to the places I myself cannot visit. It brought to mind Ovid’s (another exile) beautiful poem Tristia. An old favourite. Here is how it opens:

‘Little book – no, I don’t begrudge it you – you’re off to the city without me, going where your only begetter is banned.
On your way, then – but penny-plain, as befits an exile’s sad offering, and my present life.’

Hisham, what about the mother? How did you you see her feelings about her husband as you were developing the character...did she love him, resent him...or both?

Did the father want the marriage as well or was he not interested? Maybe it was just a marriage of convenience for him and he did not have the interest in his son that he should have had to bring him up as he should have. It did seem however that there was a lot of warmth from the father at times but at other times S was ignored when he really needed his father.

It is definitely a compliment that people need to ask if it is autobiographical

That could have been for his own safety though - they didn't even seem to know that he knew about the place in Martyr's Square, so if they tried to keep him completely in the dark, he could never give out damning information and then feel guilt etc

Firstly, I would like to thank you for this kind invitation and thank all the book club members for having selected my book. I would also like to say that I have never done this before. I am a web-chat virgin. And you are robbing me of my virtue. Virtue is a heavy burden, though. Very appropriate then I also have the honour of being your first, of many I hope, ‘author of the month’ authors.

Now, about the autobiography question.

In the beginning it surprised and slightly irritated me whenever someone would accuse my book of being autobiographical. Yes, I did see it as an accusation for I felt it questioned the creative process and the power of the human imagination. But now I take it as a complement. Or I try to anyway. For it suggests that I have done my job well: that the story is believable. So you are right; it is not autobiographical. I have had better luck as a child than my protagonist – and suspect as a man too, although I have no idea what Suleiman is up to these days. I am not a father, and so it did help that I was once a boy. Also having a nephew who was then, luckily, 9. I watched him. Watching is something I do. I think writing begins with observing and attending to the world. It is ultimately a kind of praise.

Not ignoring you Tilly!

Hello Hisham - thanks oodles for joining us

Hisham, I would also be interested to know how autobiographical the book was? There are obvious parallels in your background, but it is a work of fiction....where did you draw the line?

The parents were totally cutting him out. He wasn't told aything at all about his fathers political activities. They seemed to think if they didn'tell him anything he ouldn't be aware.

coco, perhaps the father was too involved in his political work to be the guide S needed?

I got to the end, and thought back to what I was doing at the age she had Suleiman and it was frightening to picture me with a child!!!

Joining Lalaa and Flame in embarassing lack of knowledge which I think impaired my enjoyment of the book a bit.

I will lurk a bit.....

yeah, I thought that, flame... once they had all gone she could be herself legitimately.

In which case surely the father should have done his bit to instruct/guide his son, specifically re how not to reveal his shady secrets to the scary police types?

But he knew that the book was wrong because he was going to give it to the guy in the car.

After the husband died she got her freedom back to be the woman she always wanted to be. I felt that she drank because she was young, alone with this son, no idea if the husband would be back alive etc - once Suleiman was gone, the husband died, she could be herself and had no need to drink.

What I 'hadn't seen' was that she loved her husband so much that she was bereft without him. Not my reading of the text at all.

Yes that's an interesting question Coco - I wonder if she was so angry with him for his political activity and all the danger and stress that followed from that, that she couldn't help but fight with him but once he'd been caught it was effectively an end to his activity (for a while at least) so she was free to love him - and I thought she really did love him... (but that could be complete claptrap)

Maybe the sex was about power, too? He always had power over her but after he came home beaten, she had a bit of power in being right maybe - or making her way of submission and betrayal the one he chose?

It hadn't clicked that she ended up arranging marriages though. I felt a huge amount of sympathy for her as she seemed to have no say in her life and was not that old herself.

Right, its time for all our questions to be answered…I am thrilled to introduce Hisham Matar, our esteemed author of the month, who has logged in to chat to us personally for the next hour. Please do post up anything specific you’d like to ask him and we’ll try to get through all the messages in time.

Hisham, thank you very much for joining us. I thought we could start with a question that Champagne Supernova and quite a few others have posted on this thread – how much of your own childhood and experience went into creating Suleiman’s world?

I thought he saved the book for his father as well. I really got the feeling that he thought they were burning his dad's books out of badness.

And they knew he saw what was going on and really should have explained.

Its really interesting...I hadn't really seen that in the mother. I thought she drank out of frustration about being forced into a marriage which she had eventually become resigned to. I did think that she had learned to respect him and the relationship had gradually grown.

perhaps the treatment of women as non-entities was at the root of the problem. the mother was not treated with respect, therefore accepted that her feelings/opinions were not valued, and then failed to properly instruct/guide her son.

I wonder how the mother coped after the father had died? It didn't seem to me that she was the same as the sorry alcoholic she had been when Baba was away. She seems to have been able to cope much better after her son had left. Perhaps it was a little like going back to the happy time before her marriage when she was looking forward to going off to study?

I think it was much more selfish than that. She kept saying that her men- S & her husband were always leaving her & after the beating, he wasn't going to be going out much

I thought he saved the book because he thought his father would still want it and would be upset that they burned them?

Agree that bullying can easily come from a feeling of powerlessness. Think that's probably the case with a lot of the secret police types - and can see how they can recruit children to grow into those roles.

She seemed to suddenly fall in love with him - maybe it was seeing him vulnerable?

I'm after something like that too Lalaa - I sat there reading thinking "I know absolutely nothing about this"

What have I missed? DD2 temporarily up, now back to bed dosed up on Medised.

What I didn't understand was how the mother hated jiggy before the husband was arrested etc., but then seemed to love it.

Does anyone know any good (and fairly accessible, preferably short) factual books about the period and the regime?

Yes, my take about the mother's drinking was the same as Justine's.

married TO somebody

I thought that Justine about the drinking.

I also think that the mother missed the father when he was not there, but part of her loathed him and blamed him for robbing her of a freedom and life she had hoped to have when she was ayoung girl.

I felt that the arranged marriage raised questions about who was reactionary and who was liberal. The mother was betrayed by her brother who had apparently been allowed to marry an American (I think?). In turn she was married by somebody who the family later spurned because of his political views. Once she returned to the family fold she became a marriage broker herself.

<hides behind Notyummy and sits down quietly at the back> MadamePlatypus - that's a good point about the discipline required to keep everything from S's perspective and keeping things deliberately vague to add to the ambience (that's not the right word but I can't think of the right one ) of the book.

I agree that the mother didn't drink when the father was around because she couldn't. Many alcoholics are able to only drink when they have the opportunity.

I think the mother was an alcoholic but with a psychological dependency rather than a physical, otherwise she would have found it impossible to stop when the father was around?

I thought the Mother was both madly in love with and reliant upon the father and just couldn't cope with his absences or the worry of what trouble he might be getting into. She didn't need to drink when he was there because she was blissfully happy was my take - but please Hisham correct me if I'm wrong...

A question for Hisham - I was shocked at the behaviour of the 'high council' and their ruthlessness in marrying the Sulieman's mother off after she had been seen in the Cafe with a boy. The book seemed to suggest that there would have been an 'honour killing' if she had not been a virgin when she met her husband. Is that kind of thing common in Libya? Did people get away with it during the revolutionary regime?

I understood that she couldn't drink when he was around because he wouldn't have let her.

<pant, pant>

Sorry I am late...\i confess I forgot but am now sitting down with laptop!

Although I found Suleiman frstrating, I found that this made him very real. In particular the way he was rather randomly cruel to other children. I can remember doing a few things as a child that I could not explain or justify, and it was interesting to see him behaving like this.

I was confused about the alcoholism. Did the mother not drink when the father was around because it was illegal or because she didn't want to. Would an alcoholic have been able to have periods of drinking and not drinking like this?

Agree about the mother being broken Tilly she was so young and I had a lot more simpathy at the end when we find out she is still only 39.

She seemed to really hate S's father but towards the end of the book she seemed to really love him.

I wasn't sure if she really did love him at the end or whether she had just accepted that this was the way things were and she had to get on with it.

I shouldn't imagine the arranged marriage helped much, but I also imagine that back in the mid 70s it would have been extremely rare to have a marriage that was not arranged, so perhaps it was more who she was married to rather than the arranging of it iykwim

Did anyone think Suleiman was being deliberately destructive to punish his parents for a) not being there (his father) b) being drunk and unreliable (his mother) c) not trusting him with any insight/ information about what was happening to their family?

He kind of went from an entirely powerless position - one in which he was at the mercy of his parents' weaknesses and whims - to a positon in which he suddenly had power to do something - albeit damage - and he just grabbed it either as payback or just because for once he could have some influence over events in a world where he generally had no influence. Would explain why he bullied the beggar too...

I know a lot of you felt angry with the mum for her drinking but I actually felt really sorry for her. When she was sober she did some really kind acts e.g. the sesame sticks. I think it shows the dual personality of the alcoholic.

He kept the book for his father didn't he? Presumably the family were protecting him by not telling him what was going on. Either that or they thought that he was too young to understand. I think quite a few things in the book were deliberately unclear because the story was first person narrative and HM was quite disciplined in not going beyond Suleiman's knowledge of what was going on.

SusanNevs, I'm with you - I thought how hard it was to be noble and pure in any situation and that the adult leaders are really selfish as children. There's a good review on amazon that points out there are no heroes in this book (Suleiman wonders where they've all gone too). Although I think Kareem comes out of it as a near enough hero...

What did everyone feel about the mother's beatings and arranged marriage being the root of her problems? Did it explain her weakness? Its another example of both the regime and personal relationships breaking someone apart. She comes across to me as broken in parts - like a toy thats half working, half not.

so many lessons here! on the metaphor - i think by understanding how we want to defend S, who in his childish ignorance (or insert your excuse of choice) behaved so cruelly, we can understand the actions of a "democratically ignorant" (please do not take offense to this) populace. i know it's a big reach, but i can't help mulling it over.

My DS is 4 and I completely identified the character of Suleiman with DS. DS will often go off and do something bad/naughty when he is cross with me. I am too far away from 9 year olds to know whether this is reasonable behaviour for a 9 year old, but unfortunately I have been listening to that free Sunday Times Horrid Henry CD alot in the car, and although I know it is a bad comparison, I didn't think it was unrealistic for a 9 year old to do something wrong seemingly for the hell of it.

One of the things I liked about the book was how blase the children were about their situation. People disappearing was both normalised (e.g. Suleiman describing seeing torture on TV) and awful.

I loved the book and particularly found the end really harrowing - so many years wasted. Suleiman seemed very naive and seeking approval in his betrayals.

Hisham Matar seems to have a lot of insight into the alcoholic parent I also wonder if the book is semi autobiographical.

I wanted to shake him for keeping the book too!! The parents should definitely have said something to him - if you are going to live a life like that, you need to make sure everyone involved knows what to do!!

that's true... nothing was ever explained to him, was it? His mum was quite happy to take him into her confidence when drunk about her shitty life, but never thought to mention things that were really, life and death important.

Yes, you would have thought that someone who has their house raided and has neighbours being taken would perhaps take their son aside and tell him not to mention things!

Good point lalaa

And why did Suleiman keep that bliming BOOK!??????

I wanted to shake him when I read that. Gahhhhhhhh.

Chocoholic - I never thought of that (the briefing him). For some reason that has me feeling better.

SusanNevs, I was wondering if it was an extended metaphor or whatever you call it. I'm not sure it entirely works if so.

My kids are 3 and 0, so perhaps if they were older I'd relate to the main character in a more maternal way...

As it was I really had to struggle not to blame him for what happened... The whole family were weak weak WEAK! The father struck me as incredibly irresponsible and surely entirely to blame for Ustath Rashid's awful death?

True that he woulnd't have quite understood the repercussions, although once the scary police had searched the house you'd think he'd get the idea that silence was golden.

I thought his relationship with the agent in the car outside was interesting - almost like a replacement father figure, someone to please. It felt like there were two types of parenting going on - the harsh political regime and the absenteeism/flakiness of his real parents.

I felt sorry for Suleiman, particularly over having to live with his mother - the character I was screaming at. I didn't see him as responsible over the political betrayals - he thought he was helping his father. His treatment of Kareem was nasty, but understandable from a nine-year-old in that situation. Kareem was older, and may have been better informed by his family.

I feel as though if he'd had a stronger more supportive mother, he wouldn't have felt the need to seek approval from the agent. Desperately sad situation. It felt to me as though he'd been abandoned by both parents

on that point - about it being only human - i feel a nagging urge to draw a parallel between S's behavior and that of the leaders of the revolution... maybe in understanding him, we can better understand them and their devoted followers??

Did his parents ever brief him as to what to say in that situation? They did leave him rather exposed I think.

I was so dissapointed in him but then he hadn't been given the full story so wouldn't know its full implications I guess.

And apols if I seem a bit emotional - was a really hard book for me to read. I think I saw a bit of my son (some incidental bits) in Suleiman and am having a hard time not reacting viscerally! Odd, isn't it.

How old are your children?

Me too - I wanted to shake him and ended up rattling the book instead. After I'd finished, I felt a little more sympathetic, as everyone in the story falls victim to one weakness or another. But he seemed to give no thought to what he said and did in those moments - they were so impetuous. I guess thats the point, its only human to act foolishly and without thought.

The mother was terribly weak. Very young though, it turned out. And never honest about anything! So I suppose he had no hope of being able to work out what was what with any degree of accuracy.

Really? I don't think I would have been that clued up to know what to do. Plus he was probably desperate for someone to take care of him and love/show concern for/be proud of him. His parents didn't seem to do that except in a needy way.

And I don't think they were awful people either - just a bit weak (the mother very) in a terrible situation.

No, I don't feel he was to blame. I think that it's far too young to make such judgments rationally - to think through the consequences and, most importantly, to have the emotional maturity not to act on first impulses.

Of course, I have my 9 year old (who really needs to go to bed) sitting here beside me, so am coloured by that!

I kept reminding myself that he was only nine years old and not, absolutely not, responsible in any way.

But it didn't stop me from blaming him anyway and feeling angry about what happened

First off, I absolutely loved the book.

I must say I found Suleiman to be very naive for 9. I feel that at 9 I would have been a bit more clued up (thinking back 100s of years...). I found myself just slapping my head and muttering I can't believe he's doing this. I even ranted at DH about it.

Pure pity. He was never given enough information to understand what he was doing.

I'm balancing 2 sleepy kids and will try to keep up...

ok, I'm here. I have decided to be all grown up and shrug off the halloween name for tonight.

I felt very angry with Sulieman, in fact, I was yelling at the book (normally I only do that to tv).

I have my wine, I have my gas fire, I have someone else cooking my supper: I am already loving this bookclub.

To kick of the very first session then….

I’ve been thinking a lot about the mixed feelings I had for Suleiman (frustration, pity, love, a bit of anger). What did everyone else feel when he told the agent about the counter revolutionary headquarters? Were you angry with him? I still think he has to shoulder some of the blame, even though I know he’s nine and in a terrible situation.

I want to second the question about it being autobiographical. Is it? If so, did it change how people relate to you? It must be strange having people know such personal details of your life!

Loved the book.

I just finished the book and found it extremely moving and gut-wrenching. My son is 9 years old and I feel like I've gained a new perspective on him and how he could be thinking.

In the press they sometimes talk about childhood being a casualty of war or a brutal regime. It was interesting how the other children around Suleiman and his reactions to that and his own fate at the end of the book. Do you think there's any way back from that? Or is that something that's easy to destroy and difficult if not impossible to rebuild?

Also, do you think that there was anything that could have changed Suleiman's betrayals? It was too much to ask a 9 year old (I say that as a mother in fierce protective mode), so I have a bit of a difficult time using 'betrayal' and its connotations. What was it that kept Kareem who he was?

Thanks - sorry if that's a bit incoherent. Just finished it and still feel very emotional. Hope to make it tonight but wanted to get this in in case I didn't!

Another Q for HM - I also enjoyed the book, though found it harrowing at times. What reaction, if any, have you had from Libyans who were around in Libya at the time you were writing about?

<sob> I can't think of any questions, but I actually read the book, finished in time, and now I have to go out

Question for Hisham Matar - I loved the book. I am sure I have read somewhere that this isn't really an autobiographical novel but I was wondering how much of your own childhood you drew on to depict Suleiman's world so effectively?

This is the thread to come to for tonight's Book of the Month discussion and live author chat. Just a reminder, we'll kick off at 8pm and chat about the book amongst ourselves for an hour. And then Hisham Matar, our author for this month, will join us at 9pm to answer questions and give us the inside story. We'll probably wrap up around 10pm.

If you can't make it this evening but would like to ask Hisham a question or two, please post them here now and Hisham will post his answers later on.

See you here at 8pm...
Tx