Haunted by stillbirth 50 years ago.

[QE]

Even though this happened 50 years ago mil and fil have never got over it and I am truly shocked at the way they were treated back then. dh never knew much detail as he was growing up, only that he had a baby sister who died at birth. fil seems to talk more to me for some reason.

At the birth, it was discovered the baby was breech. fil was telling me about it only the other day - he says he saw the feet emerge yet the midwife insisted mil walked down the stairs to give birth on the living room floor. As soon as the baby was born it was whisked away and they never saw it (her) again. There was no funeral, no chance to say goodbye. He was close to tears and it nearly broke my heart listening to him talk.

Apparently they have never really spoken about it over the years. They never had any counselling, the midwife was never brought to book (if indeed she had been at fault - although it looks that way by making mil walk downstairs during delivery). There is not even a grave to visit. What happened to the baby does not bear thinking about.

I cannot imagine losing a baby, yet I cannot comprehend giving birth for the baby to then be taken away and be told to just get on with your life. Many stories on MN have brought me to tears but this is much closer to home.

Don't know why I feel so shocked and haunted by this. Maybe I will feel better writing it here. MAybe I can find advice on what to say/do for mil and fil, I don't know. Thanks for listening anyway.

[harrogatemum]

QE - this is just awful. Is there any way they can find out what happened or is it too late for any of that? Maybe if they did they could get some sort of closure? I know it wouldnt heal their pain but could go some way to helping them to make sense of their feelings.

[mosschops30]

QE you're alone, I am sure there are lots of people still dealing with trauma from old (bad) practice.
My mum lost 2 babies (1 mc and 1 stillbirth), even to this day she still doesnt know what really happened, as she was never told why her baby died, or where the baby was buried, she still blames herself, and is always unhappy when that time of year comes round.

I'll watch this thread with you if that ok see if anyone has any advice

[Feistybird]

So, was the birth even registered QE?

[waterfalls]

Jesus

[BudaBabe]

Don't know what to say really - it was horrific how people were treated sometimes.

My parents had a baby who died as a result of my Mum contracting rubella while pg. I was 4 at the time. My Dad had to physically buy a coffin and bury the baby himself. A colleague od his at the time insisted on helping him as he felt he shouldn't be alone. Although I have always known about the baby I didn't know that detail until he had a few drinks and told my sis and her DH. He was still upset by it over 30 yrs later.

CAn't believe you MIL was made to walk downstairs like that.

[KTeePee]

A similar thing happened to my aunt about 20 years ago, don't know exactly why the baby died (may have been pre-eclampsia). She still grieves for that baby and thinks of him on his birthday, when he would have been reaching certain milestones, etc. Although there wasn't a funeral, I think she knows where he is buried (a sort of communal plot attached to the hospital I think) but I don't know if she has visited it. Maybe your mil's baby was buried somewhere similar?

Another aunt had a "blue baby" over 50 years ago who died when he was a day old. She never spoke about him (and asked her family to never bring it up) and I only found out about him a few years ago, after she had died (I don't even know if her own children know).

I suppose different react differently. Don't have much advice on what to say or do, other than do what you would do if it had been an older child - I'm sure the hurt and pain is the same...

[bundle]

how terribly, terribly sad. I remember watching Thora Hurd in one of Alan Bennett's monologues, Cream Cracker Under the Settee, where she recounts a similar experience so it must have been quite common. Do you think they would like to commemorate their daughter in some way, eg planting a tree?

[desperateSCOUSEwife]

QE how very sad for your inlaws
I know there will still (should)be records, either through the hospital or the GP
and they can point you in the right direction if you would like to find out what happened.

It was terrible the way things used to be
thank god we live in modern times, and this sort of thing doesnt happen anymore but it was a sign of the times nobody asking questions and the attitude of "not wanting to trouble the medical establishment"
good luck
xxx

[Peachyclair]

QE, my Mum went through this too, 4 times! She gave birth at around the 28 - 30 week mark with all of them and I don't think it was too hard until my Sis had one at 32 weeks that survived fine. All she knows is that they were all boys (only Coz DAd found out, nobody told her). She doesn't know where they are buried or what caused the losses. It did happen that Me and sis2 got bad pre-eclampsia, as did my nan, and my other Sis started to show some signs before nephew was born so we wonder if it could have been that, but could never tell.

Mum's baby no 5 was terminated as she caught rubella in month 2. How much bad luck can one person get? Then she had me and my two sisters straight off , no problems.

When she told them her medical history whilst expecting me, she was told off for attention seeking lying by a MW

She never talks about it, and neithre does Dad but Dad drank dfor many eyars and Mum has / had depression and I feel certain it must be relayted.

I am sorry your Mum went through this QE, maybe a charity like SANDS could still help? Bereavement counselling would still seem appropriate

[expatinscotland]

QE,
How tragic! One of my dad's sisters lost her first baby, a daughter, thirty years ago after my aunt contracted listeria whilst 36 weeks pregnant.

The baby is buried and they still visit her grave and my aunt's two sons and one daughter know all about their sister.

I think the way these things were handled in the past were so incredibly cruel they border on inhumane.

I hope your ILs find peace one day.

[donnie]

these are all really sad stories - thank good ness the medical establishment has more compassion now.
Poor mums and dads, and poor babies too.

[eefs]

Something similar happenened to a great aunt of mine. First birth, she had twins, a boy and a girl. The boy died after a day and was put in a suitcase on top of the wardrobe in the same room as his mother until the doctor arrived two days later. The little girl died a week later, was put in the same suitcase and she never saw them again. Her husband was away working and never saqw them at all. It still haunts her, though she went on to have 8 more (surviving) children.
Horrific horrific story - I don't know how I could cope, she still cries when she talks about it.

[Greensleeves]

Oh QE that is brutal. I'm not surprised they haven't got over it. It's not too late to do something healing and comforting like have a little ceremony or plant a tree, if it helps lay these feelings to rest. I'm sure talking to you must have been good for him too. It's so sad that they were treated like that.

[snowleopard]

People like to have a moan about the NHS, but thank god people don't have to go through that sort of treatment these days and most midwives and nurses are sensitive - by training if not naturally so. What was wrong with people that there are so many stories of heartless cruelty like this?

Agree your PILs could be encouraged to have a tree-planting or other ceremony and a good cry - you could offer to help arrange it - and they might be able to live with this more eaily.

[QE]

The baby's birth was never registered as a birth or a death. I really am truly shocked that this could happen. I know we are talking about 50 years ago but still. Thank god that things are so much better these days with helping people through the tragedy of losing their babies.

fil remembers seeing a wisp of blonde hair sticking out of the blanket in which she was wrapped. mil had a retained placenta so had to go to hospital to have that dealt with. I think they were so shocked by what had happened and so scared of questioning the medics that they never asked about the baby and just went home. I am most haunted by what happened to the baby's body, I would like to think that she was buried in a communal hospital plot somehwere. This is one question I feel I can't ask.

I like the idea of a tree but, you know, I would feel really silly bringing it up. Partly it feels like it was so long ago in the past it should be left there, another part feels it might be fitting to do something like this but I don't know how they would take it. I would hate to do or say the wrong thing. I could ask dh for his opinion but I suspect they would rather do nothing than go through the pain of a memorial.

mil breakdown was so severe that she has never recovered to anything like what she was before. Normal conversation with her is impossible. She is physically and mentally dependant upon fil for everything - she is like a toddler and needs 24 hour care. Whenever I ask about anything when dh was a baby she always replies she doesn't know; I wonder if she just blanks everything out?

expat - inhumane sums it up.

[Harpsichordcarrier]

I would say it is impossible to get over something like that, ever.
it's not too late to try and deal with it though. Bereavement counselling, and (why not, if they feel up to it) an investigation into the circumstances to see if they can find out some answers.

[whimsy]

My mom and dad's first baby was still born 38yrs ago. All they know is that she may of had spina bifida and they named her Susan. They never saw her (weren't given the chance).

As my dad walked down the corridor to see my mom and new baby the doctor said not to worry your both young, you can have another one. He hadn't a clue what he was on about he'd just got to the hospital :(

Don't know what happened to her but my great aunt worked at the hospital and told mom she had been buried with a woman????

My mom got terribly upset when it was on the news about baby's organs being retained by some hospitals.

It's all so sad, no counselling given. How she went on to have 5 more children is beyond me.

[bundle]

QE could you "dress" up the tree idea with a family party for say one of their birthdays, or their wedding anniversary, and say it's for all of the years they've spent together, all the things they've been through together, so it could be sort of unspoken, but they'd "know"?
I think you're right re: her blocking it all out, it must be incredibly painful to go through something like that, let alone when those who should be helping you making it worse and virtually pretending it never happened.

[Marina]

QE, I'm so sorry to read this. SANDS was set up to combat the routinely callous treatment of bereaved parents in hospitals and in society at large, by parents who experienced such horrors as your PILs as recently as the 1970s :(
Do contact \link{http://www.uk-sands.org\SANDS HQ} for them.
The support and counselling services they provide are for bereaved parents whether the baby died yesterday or over fifty years ago. In fact, quite a bit of their work is with long-bereaved parents, tbh, as often hospital and health professional support is so much better nowadays.
If this is possible you could find out from which hospital your MIL would have received some antenatal care/where the midwife was from.
I suggest this because many hospitals now hold memorial services for families whose babies or children died while in the care of the hospital. These can be advertised in local papers, ours was.
I went to one such service at the hospital where my son was stillborn and although most of us were recently bereaved, there was an old lady there whose first son was stillborn 50 years ago (at one of the long-closed local hospitals). She never saw her son to say goodbye and he had no funeral etc. He was always John to her. It was the first time she had spoken about him for many, many years. We both sat and cried and she was comforted by the bereavement midwife and by the chaplain.
I just wanted you and Mosschops to know that even after all this time there is support to be had.

[SoupDragon]

:( You say that it was so long ago in the past it should be left there but clearly it's not completely in the past for your MIL & FIL. What would your DH say about the idea of a tree?

FWIW, my dad's mum lost a baby shortly after birth anout 75 years ago. The only time I heard her talk about it, she claimed it was a botched forceps delivery and the baby cried constantly for the few days he lived :( It only became truly heartwrenching when I had my own babies. I didn't get it before. My dad has never mentioned it and, although I'd kind of like to know more, I don't think it's appropriate to bring it up. It was before he was born so he may not really know.

[expatinscotland]

Princess Di's mother had a stillborn baby she called Patrick whom she never got to hold. Shortly before her death she told a reporter that her arms still ached to hold that baby.

[bundle]

our nursery recently planted a magnolia tree, it's really beautiful

[PinkKerPlink]

how awful:(

marinas advice is fantastic though

[fireflyfairy2]

How sad :(

That poor couple. Isn't it nice that they can talk to you about it QE?

Can I ask if they know why they were never let see their baby and where the midwofe went when she had it in her arms? Is there any doubt that the birth actually was a still birth?