aaargh! have had enough...had to leave DD1s room tonight before I exploded

[peanutbrittle]

ok, I KNOW she is a highly sensitive child, I KNOW she is feeling unhappy about the prospect of school tomorrow for first time in two weeks, I KNOW she needs nurturing, I KNOW she needs love and attention etc etc etc but honestly, after spending three hours on and around the bedtime routine tonight and her still crying as I left the room I wonder what to do next

I don't want to leave her upset but quite honestly I was going to undo all of the good work I've put in since 6pm if I stayed in there one more second!

she is 6 and we are following the guidelines set out in what to do when you dread your bed in an attempt to bring some sort of sanity to our evenings but honestly, there are times (many!) when I have just had enough!

phew, I really needed to offload that...

anyone else have one of these?

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

My ds has been exclaining all afternoon that he ''hates school and is not going tomorrow'' too.

Generally. he is ok, just has the odd wobble.

Have promised that IF he goes to school tomorrow without complaint that we will go to the toyshop after school so he can spend some of his xmas money.

He then asked ''what happens if I have a headache tomorrow and don't go to school''? Answer '' no toyshop''!

He has also come downstairs in past half hour to say he feels as though he is going to fall over so was told to go to bed then and it won't matter. And that his eyes are sore , well I expect they need to be closed and have a rest then.

Oh, can just hear him calling something else..

[peanutbrittle]

ah yes, the bribe trick - I told DD we'll go to the sweet shop after school if she goes to sleep ok. Normally a treat reserved only for Fridays. That stopped the wailing for a while.

Hasn't stopped her coming down claiming to have a nail in her eye
just now though

I like your retort to your DS's falling over scam

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

Apparently, his finger nail hurts

Ds is 7, so maybe it's a year 2 thing?

Book looks great by the way

[peanutbrittle]

aaargh - she is still at it

what do I do? just leave her bawling up there? I am knackered and need this 30 minutes before falling into a pit of slumber myself - before her it sounds like!

oh, dunno about the yr 2 thing - DD1 has been like this since birth. She can be anxious and challenging about other things too, being fairly highly strung and extremely intense, but it's these prlonged night times that string me out - I've been up since 6 this morning and would just LOVE a few minutes peace

is that too selfish?

guild ridden mother

[Frizbe]

dd1 is overtired tonight after her 1st day back at school, she's been in bed since 7 and has yelled out 3 x so far, in various crying fits, that she can't get to sleep, she needs a drink etc, etc The joys of the 1st day back eh! I'd probably be at ultimatum stage by now, which in our case usually involves her shutting up, or her favourite thing being taken away for a day, a week or a month, in ascending order (am I evil, yes I am when it comes to whinging about going to sleep )

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

Sometimes I have had to go to bed to actually get ds to settle. He usually does go quiet when we turn all the lights off and tell him we are going to sleep.

Have also done the treatening to take things away trick. Depends how wound up he has got himself i.e. sometimes he is beyond the point of no return and he just has to blow himself out iyswim.

[swanriver]

I now have a foolproof method for getting dd 6 years to sleep on school days. Get into bed with her half hour before appointed sleep time, propping us both on very comfortable pillow, read excellent story, that I enjoy for 15 mins. Turn off light firmly. Lie down next to her and let her go to sleep. This takes all of 10 mins. Then the difficult part. Get out of bed and go downstairs to have grownup evening/do chores.
It is so foolproof, that I don't know why I wasted all that time, reading one more story just one, cajoling her to go to sleep sending her back to bed, getting cross. She is also so much better tempered as a result of this approach. Dss do not need same treatment and go to sleep after being tucked in, so I think it is just something she needs.

[VaginaShmergina]

peanut brittle, have you thought of hypnosis for your DD ? Sounds extreme doesn't it but we are considering it for our DD.

We have problems around various issues and a friends grandaughter had similar problems. They took her for some hypnosis, parent/s remain in room at all times, research done with parent/s first etc etc.

It has been an amazing success. Duaghter will now fly and also had issues with hospitals and she had a forthcoming op.

I know it's not the same problem as you but just wanted to put that ball up in the air for you.

I hope she is asleep now and you can get some sleep too.

[mylovelymonster]

DD(2) refused to go to nursery last Friday. We're going to have another go tomorrow. She loves it, but would rather have ALL mummy/daddys' attention than have to share the limelight/paints/sticklebricks with others. Guess doesn't bode well for big school

[MarmadukeScarlet]

Thanks for that link, I think I may get them all!

I am sorry you/she are having a tough time. My DD is 9 (Yr 4) and our bedtimes do not seem to be getting any better, am seriously considering a clinical psych as I think she may be anxious to the point of depression (and I do not say that lightly).

2 nights in a row she has been in tears about our cat that died nearly 2 years ago - who knows what is really going on, I don't seem to be able to unlock the problem.

It is more than just the cat, tis everything. Like you this evening, I have sometimes lift her sobbing so I don't say "ffs pull yourself together." after 3 hours of soothing, reassuring and propping up of low self esteem.

[VaginaShmergina]

Marmaduke, my DD will get upset about her Uncle John, my brother who died 19 years ago

She is coming up for 9 and I think she is battling with hormone surges. We also recently lost a good friend suddenly and it has "aggravated" things. Separation anxiety, who is going to die next, what if I am left all alone and so it goes on. The hypnosis should work for all of the above and more. Maybe that is worth exploring before the psych route iyswim ?

[MarmadukeScarlet]

VS Thanks, I hadn't seen your previous post. I will seiously consider it, one of my old schoolfriend's mother is a hypnotherapist (she specialises in problems of a more adult nature, but I bet she'd know someone)

I don't really want to go psych route, I think, sometimes, once started it is hard to step off iyswim.

She has been obsessed with death for ages, my GP has a DD similar age and says she is concerned they will burn in their beds! So feels it is normal.

[VaginaShmergina]

I was a bit when I was told about it MarmadukeScarlet but I called the man who does it (He is in Surrey btw) He spent 30 minutes on the phone to me and I felt like I had had a session with him, his voice was so soothing and alot of what he said made sense. He suggested that there could be a possibility her anxiety is learnt behaviour from me and issues I have....food for thought without a doubt !

It is not unusual for children to have issues with death and what you are going through is IMO "normal"

[peanutbrittle]

thanks for all the messages - have finally got her to sleep after allowing her to go into my bed and promising to be up in 20 mins

aaargh!

swanriver - am glad that works for you - I could lie next to her for an hour and still get the crying when I leave. Other nights (tho' rarely) she happily lets me go after ten mns or so. There is NO option of not lying with her. She gets too wound up and upset.

We are working on very routinised (is that a word?) winddown time in her room aout an hour before she needs to be asleep, following the guidelines of that book, it's still early days but tonight wasn't great

VS and MS - thanks for messages of support - I might just try hypnosis. We are also at the cusp of going down the more official routes. I'm trying to stave it off - she did have 6 months play therapy through CAMHS at age 5 as she was talking about wanting to be dead a lot - this started again recently and I did phone them but her lovely therapist is on maternity leave atm and tbh I didn't fancy forcing her through it all again.

GP says it is worrying but to look for positive parenting course. Aaaargh - I feel I know the theory, she just doesn't respond and after hours of calm and psoitive stuff I end up losing it which gets us back to square minus one again.

Have to admit was glad to get back to work today after two weeks off with her. Although then she was so pleased to see me tonight when I got home it broke my heart (yesterday she was telling me she wished she had another mother...loudly...in the swimming pool dressing rooms...just before refusing to brush her hair and heading out with her dressing gown over her clothes instead of a coat !)

I spent the afternoon at work researching depression in kids

she reminds me so much of myself as a child it hurts and even with all the empathy and good intentions in the world I still lose it

nobody said it would be this hard, or did they, did I miss that bit?

[resolutions]

swanriver that is exactly what i do ,my favourite time of day actually

[tangarine]

peanutbrittle,

I feel your pain! I have exactly the same with my seven year old DS2 and could have written a lot of your first and last posts. I spend hours settling him, getting increasingly irritated and undoing all the good work.

My DH works abroad, and when he is around (like the last two weeks over Christmas) DS2 is tucked up and fast asleep by 7.30 latest. As soon as DH goes back we are back to 9pm at the earliest (despite going up at 7 for teeth, story, snuggle etc). I know he's sad and misses his Dad and he's taking it out on me, but that doesn't help when I've been on the go all day (and up twice in the night with DS1 so not firing on all cylinders in the first place).

Do you recommend the book?

[sleeploony]

I was going to post a similar thread today. I have a similar prolem with my 2 DS they will not settle at night. We have tried sitting with them - they take up to 1.5hours to get off some nights! So we tried a story CD and leaving them - even worse. They both say they are scared and I genuinley think they are but I am finding it very hard to renain patient as I am worried about how tired they are for school and want some adult time in the evenings. I also feel mean for feeling like this.

[3littlefrogs]

Have you considered giving her a gentle back massage at bed time? I use grapeseed oil and a couple of drops of lavender. Best thing I ever learned to do. Fantastic de-stress treatment.

I did a course and am qualified, but there are loads of very good books around that give basic techniques.

[swanriver]

Have to say that the improvement in dd aged 6 bedtime is accompanied by improvement in our relationship generally, so I think that your relationship with her in the day is going to have a big effect on bedtime. It's a sort of acting out of general worries, not a specific bedtime issue. But you probably knew that. There are two slightly contradictory elements to this 1. THE WINDUP getting every ounce of attention even negative out of situation (which is what your daughter is doing) almost impossible for you to avoid getting woundup and drawn into negotiation and arguing. This is what she subconsciously desires. You defeat this by being very matter of fact about bedtime, and quite lowkey - don't make routine too long and involved and avoid long conversations whilst you are still at the WINDUP stage - this will only aggravate matters. Just keep saying goodnight calmly and confidently as if you believe she will go to bed.

1. EMPATHY. Be as nice and respectful as possible to dd in day whilst maintaining simple boundaries of (her)behaviour. Go out of your way to show attention to her, and listen to her, ask her questions, cuddle her, so that she will not choose bedtime as a place to get the special attention.

We have had a lot of boring/upsetting bedtime situations such as the one you describe and these two methods really helped. I think recognising THE WINDUP was a major breakthrough, and not getting cross with it was another!

[peanutbrittle]

thanks swanriver - even when we are having a non-contentious relationship she can be murder to get to sleep. Always has been. I have changed around all my work shifts to spend more time with her and ensure she goes to after school club only one day per week. I do as much empathising and positive attention during the day as I can but maybe I need to look at this dispassionately and see if that's just my perception or if I could do some more. It just feels like it is all take take take, I'll spend hours playing with her, on her terms, being attentive, positive etc but then if I need to do something for myself it'll be like all that didn't happen and she'll get fed up with me again. She sounds a bit bratty but I honestly don't think she is inherently. She is just high intensity, sensitive etc.

It's so hard though.

Tangerine I feel for you - that sounds thankless and miserable.

I would recommend that book I think. It tries to demystify the whole getting to sleep thing. Teaches them magic tricks (really!) to enable the child to understand that even what seems like magic is just a series of steps done in sequence and practised. Then gives guidelines to enable you as a team to apply the same principles to going to sleep. We were just a bit unlucky we started it just before xmas, then she was horribly ill over xmas and that and the hols etc kind of messed up what routine we did have going. I'm hoping that getting into it again now all that excitement is over may yield dividends.

I've also just ordered this book in the hope it might help

am out at my book club tonight and am horrifyingly glad I don't have to deal with bedtime

[swanriver]

Peanutbrittle I didn't mean to preach ..sorry. Sounds like you are very loving to her and give her lots of positive attention. I do remember thinking dd was like some unending duracell fuelled complaining creature - there was always something wrong with everything. I think at some point I just decided not to be at her beck and call - it was making her worse. I would just say things like, I can't hear you when you talk in that whiney voice, or alternatively I'd give her a big hug before she could scream at me at school pickup, or just plain turn my back on her until she could stop tantrumming over some matter. And she did stop being quite so bad. Not always...

[peanutbrittle]

don't worry swanriver - I didn't think you were being preachy - I do sometimes need to think about how much time/attention I give her - it can feel like a lot to me but sometimes I think I need to learn to let go of stuff like housework, tidying etc and just sit with her doing whatever she wants to do more

I work 4 days a week, very early starts so I can pick her up from school, my dh works full time, we have another, younger daughter too to drop off and pick up from her nursery in another part of town - we seem to never be on top of stuff and constantly trying to catch up - I guess she suffers

anyway...

thanks 3littlefrogs too, I do sometimes giver her a massage but we'd gotten to loggerheads a bit about that too as it was never long enough, done right etc etc so I'd kind of given up but last night (when she was still awake when I got home from book club!) I remembered your advice and gave her one, she was still crying out as I left the room afterwards but she stopped almost immediately and went to sleep, so thanks v much for the reminder

I think the book I linked to earlier about highly sensitive children might be useful, it arrived and I've read the first couple of chapters on the way to work this am - its major premise seems to be to think more positively about the traits of highly sensitive kids and not to expect them to cope with situations the way other kids might. I'm hoping there will be some practical advice in there for when things get too much