LOL at Cory.....gotta be honest some DH's probably need to be kept on a rein

14?!

I am a naturally vague person myself, so I am very grateful to my parents for encouraging me to become independent in my teens, sailing on my own, travelling to the next town, cooking family meals unsupervised. Otherwise I am afraid I might have been dangerously vague by now. I want dd to know that she cannot walk around in a permanent day dream: that's why I let her take little brother into town; I want her to learn responsibility before she hits whatever university she may be going to.

lucygreen, would you put your dh on a rein too?

Because frankly to me, a 14yo is someone who is growing up and should be able to cope even if she does get separated from her parents in an airport.

My 12yo goes into town on her own (health permitting) or in charge of little brother. If I lost her in London or at an airport (we do travel a fair bit) I would expect her to behave in the same sensible way as I would if I got separated from dh, i.e. make my way to an information point and have them make an announcement on the tannoy. Surely that should be well within the scope of a 12, let alone a 14yo?

By the time I was 16 I was staying alone in a hotel in a foreign city for a weekend.

To me, it's not about fear of embarrassing an older child: it's about letting them grow up believing that Mummy will do all the thinking so they never need to do any of their own. We live in a university town- I'd like mine to be rather more capable than some of the students I see around.

But totally agree that I would not leave toddler alone in a car.

Really agree with curly

with the only caveat being that I think there is disagreement about where the greatest risk lies.

I think, depending on the temprement of the kids involved, it is potentially quite dangerous to walk them across the petrol forecourt.

And I don't think there is much additional risk of a car spontaneously combusting at a petrol station, compared to, say, when driving along at 70mph. Cars ARE dangerous.

Normally, I think a child will be fine for ten minutes in a locked car. This fear of abduction-the only way to get to that child would be to break into the car, which would attract some attention, surely? Its not likely to happen on a busy high street, the commotion required would hardly make the child an easy target.

curly summed up in a sentence.....end of thread....

abraid! I suppose some of us asked for that!

I think the only thing that can be said about people on this thread is that some are very cautious and others less so. The cautious ones will never understand how the less cautious can "take a risk", whereas the less cautious just don't see there's any risk to take in the first place.

Hey ho.....

I only ever left my son in the car, locked, whilst I went to pay for petrol and avoided that if I possibly could.
I only started leaving my son in the, locked, car whilst I nipped into the local shop (car parked directly outside the door) and no longer than 2 mins when he was old enough to understand where I was and that I would be back very soon. I still avoided it if I could though and constantly checked through the window.
I never left him asleep in the car outside our home. Just couldn't do it - did try very briefly once though.
I'm the kind of person who thinks the worst thing may well happen, so I do accept that I am over cautious about many things!

I'm stunned that some of you thought it was safe to leave children of any age in a room without you there. Aren't you aware of the risks of spontaneous combustion?

I can't answer the question in regards to your younger children as I don't know anything about you, being a parent is a learning curve you might decide to do it the same or in a few years you may feel differently and therefore do things differently, thats not something me or anyone else on here can predict, all I will say is do whatever as a parent you feel most comfortable with, it doesnt need the approval of anyone other than yourself.

yes i hear all that and hope for the best part im the same. but i cant see that having a little bit of material conectng my eldest to me in a crowd cos she is so vague, in order to stop her getting lost will cause a problem. shes safe and happy and her only complaint is her friends dont need it.
but in many ways i expose her to opertunity and danger/adventure.

oh yes and do u think i will be more relaxed with my other kids as i get to be a more experienced parent

Hi Lucy, first of all I'm not questionning your style of parenting, on the contrary I admire that you take an interest in your childrens safety and I totally agree with your comment about children who behave appallingly because they know no boundaries, I've actually just been behind 2 parents with young children (at a guess I would say 5 and 6)and the parents were watching and laughing at them hitting each other with school bags until one got hit in the eye, personally I think thats appalling behaviour I'm all for allowing children to be children but learning to hit each other with objects IMO isnt acceptable.

From my personal point of view I would rather my children were allowed a little more freedom, everyone has different parenting styles which are neither right or wrong so long as they're not abusive or neglectful.
Problem is, I've seen adults who I know for a fact were molly coddled as children, they seriously cannot cope out in the big wide world simply because they were never exposed to it as children, theres one I know who actually turned out as an abusive bully who hits women (my ex partner), mummy protected her darling son from absolutely everything as a child, rushed to hospital everytime he sneezed or cut his finger(and I aint joking), installed into him that he was never to blame for wrongdoings but it was always the fault of nasty people who forced him, and woe betide anyone who said anything that might hurt the little darlings feelings.......result = a highly insecure abusive bully who lives in an ideal world not the real world and you have to walk on egg shells around him constantly fearing saying the wrong thing.
My second example is my cousin, molly coddled in a similar way, now aged 31 married with 2 beautiful children she cannot cope in the real world, cannot do anything for herself and is very isolated due to having very little social skills.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for one minute suggesting that anyone who is overprotective of their children will end up like that, its just to show what can happen years down the line, and more importantly is probably the reason why I'm more relaxed regarding my children having freedom.

hi kazzi i think there is a whole other side to this and its emotional security and hapiness. like i might be stricter/more protecive with my kids than some. but hey they are fun , polite , doing ok at school get on with other kids and adults .
some kids are wild and insecure as they dont know any boundaies.
i know you think im to protective wit my eldest, do you think its cos she is the first and i will be more laid back with the others by that age. or is it a better parenting skill if i tret all the kids consistently.
there again i dread to think who the little ones will want to be taken to wembley to see as im guessin it wont be take that. as long as there not football fans!!

Not read through all the posts since I last posted so apologies if I repeat anything.

Lucygreen I definately support your better safe than sorry approach up to a point, I do however think people can take things beyond extreme particularly with older children but thats their choice and theyre entitled to make that choice which doesnt need the approval of others.

My 10 and 8 year old would have the choice to either come into the shop with me or wait in the car however I would usually take my 4 yr old with me as I wouldnt feel comfortable leaving her alone out of sight, having said that i would leave her for 30 seconds or so (with doors locked) whilst I returned a trolley in a car park but there are plenty of trolley points in supermarket car parks so she is always within my view.

melmog my 9 yr old is disabled so i have to get out a wheelchair hes had brain operations so hes mentally 4 and a half, yes i carry my 1 yr old but i have crippling multiple sclerosis....so its very diificult for me to pop out of the car to the shops but i still do it rather than leave them

Admania, sanctimonius and patronising all in one. Well done there!

am i out on a limb when it comes to putting kids of whatever age on wrist reins to keep us all togethther when we leave the car. it dosnt seem uncomon round hear but maybe thats cos i live in a bussy part of london. oh well just like to hear what others do

Never. I'll leave DS in his car seat while I'm unpacking the car, but that's it.
I wouldn't even leave unattended when paying for petrol, though I know that's probably safe.

Hold the door for me too please melmog, I'm leaving too. I'd thought mumsnet was for constructive opinions, but clearly some people think it's fine to insult people without knowing circumstances.

Bye guys - hope you all chill out and leave this thread far behind!

Disneystar1.
Yes, but the 9, 8 and 5 year olds don't need carrying or holding onto with a death grip, do they? So really, you've just got the 1 year old to carry.

Admania.
Are there many 1 and 2 year olds that know right from wrong? Are you aware that some 2 year olds do not follow you happily wherever you go, and if they feel like it will lie on the floor kicking and screaming? Especially if they've been woken from a deep sleep. Maybe it's just mine. Before you say it, she is a very polite, well mannered, lovely clever girl. She just likes her sleep.

I'm going to stop reading. This post is pissing me right off.

What a boring thread.. judgemental, paranoid parenting.. All judgemental, paranoid parents should go out and sell their car(s) NOW, they are just too dangerous, parked OR on the move.

If or where you leave your child(ren) in the car alone is YOUR business, depending on your own individual circumstances.

kityan -"but to insiuate that it's irresponsible to do shocked me" Ha ha ha! Have you been on MN long Beleive me you will be shocked a great many more times if you stay, beleive me. As I said on another similar thread I think I am in a parallel universe to some of the mums on here.

i have to take 4 children in the shop when ive parked 9,8,5, and 1 whats the deal here they follow me walk by me yes they touch and look but do not stress me out.

i knew it was going to be tough as a parent and yes id love to shop alone

maybe it does depend on where you live tiny village compared to busy city, me id still take them in i have been accused of paranoia in the past but i actually enjoy taking my boys into shops, i dont let them use public toilets alone either and explain why to them
there clever switched on boys and realise its because i care when the time is right i will allow some freedom .....but not yet

That'snotmymonster, your description of your rainy day stresses sounds entirely like a normal rainy day that anyone with children could experience. Isn't it just what most parents go through at one time or another? I can't help but think "Deal with it!"

I would have reported a baby alone for more than a couple of minutes in the car in a supermarket car park too. For the reasons mentioned - how would an onlooker know that the parent/guardian hadn't collapsed and been taken to hospital.

"it was easier to leave 1 in the car while I popped in". The word "easier" jumps out. Being a parent isn't about choosing the easy option.

Anyone who leaves child in car whilst popping into shop for 10 minutes or so beware.

I USED to do it occasionally and never on a hot day. Anyway a few weeks ago I left dd2 (14mo) sleeping in car at tesco while I popped in with dd1 (2) to get bread and cheese for lunch as I had nothing in and look after 2 other dc in afternoon.

I had just dropped ds at pre-school nursery and dd2 always naps for about 2 hours at that time. If she wakes (which is rare) she is unlikely to cry. I actually tried to wake her up but she was snoring and really deeply asleep.

Anyone some guy called the police and when I got back to my car he had called 2 women over and they all hurled abuse at me while I tried to get dd1 back into the car. DD2 slept through it all.

The police came round, took a statement and told Social Work who contacted my HV. Luckily for me my HV knows me and dc's very well and was adamant that she had no concerns about the family.

My personal view is that we take risks/do very risky things all the time, I mean how many people speed with their dc's in the car (or without and risk crashing and killing other children). It used to be ok to leave children in prams outside shops etc.

Some shops are not geared up to me taking 3 pre-school children into them- I can't keep an eye on them all and am constantly losing sight of them etc. Obviously I try to avoid these situations but sometimes I have to go and it was easier to leave 1 in the car while I popped in.

Now obviously I can't ever do it so for example the other day it was pouring rain
I got them all out of the car to take ds into nursery- got soaked. Put dd's back in car and drove to Chemist. Parked on street and had to get both out and into chemist to get drops for conjuctivitis for dd2. Was told it would be 10 min wait but dd1 was due back at nursery for her 'visit' before starting so went back to school- by this time dd2 was exhausted and really wanted to fall asleep but I had to take her in to school for the hour visit with dd1. After this we had to go back to get eye drops and then back to school to get ds at 11.30am.

It had rained the whole time, dd2 was the most miserable baby- wet, conjuctivitus, tired and hungry. I was stressed and harrassed.

Yes Noonki we should really all be getting our boilers serviced (I was late with mine and it turned out to be leaking CO) and having our wiring checked (my dad is a safety engineer and goes crazy about dangerous wiring) and our fire escape plans memorised.
And we think about road safety but it is an excellent point that if a mother is hit by a car whilst out of the house/car then the children are in trouble - I think my mind has been changed on that one.
I think most of us are inconsistent to some degree - certainly everyone who doesn't keep a rear-facing carseat for a as long as possible is!

NN

Do you realise how many children die in cars whilst their parents are in them?

you have to take some risks, so leaving them in a car is far less dangerous than driving around with them, so maybe I shouldn't allow my children in a car at all.

Mind most child deaths happen in the home so god knows what to do with them.

I also think that whether you leave your kids will depend hugely on your area.

I think I'd actually feel quite safe parking the car and leaving my kids in it to pop into the post office, which is in a very quiet row of shops, full of schoolchildren, mothers, etc. Odds are great that one of their or my friends would be there to chat with anyway (haven't done this-wouldn't drive to local shops in first place!).

Would not leave them in Sainsbury's car park or on high road.

I leave mine in the car regularly when paying for diesel. If we have a real food emergency (no milk etc, dp away) then I go to one of those petrol stations with parking in front, park up there and run in and get what I need.

Its about calculated risk imo. I actually think petrol station forecourts are quite risky places. There will be, without doubt, quite a lot of cars. Some of those cars will be starting up, driver perhaps not paying as much attention as they might. You might get someone trying to drive off at speed without paying, having used fake numberplates, say (have seen this happen!). I think it is possibly different if you have, say, one sensible 4 year old, but I have 3 aged 5 and under and so IMO my kids are much safer in the car.

If I were hit by a car or something, on a petrol forecourt, I'd be astounded if no one noticed my kids in a car!

Nope. Never.

I haven't read the whole thread but someone has already mentioned the grandmother who popped to the shop and got hit by a car (or collapsed?) taken to hospital and then the babies died... I can't forget that.

i think this is all about common sense really. personally i've left DS in the car where I can see him when paying for petrol, but never left him unattended any other time. he comes into the shop with me regardless of whether he's sleepy or not (he's 2).

im a mom of 7 and usually have 4 dc,s in the car i never ever have or ever will leave them for even 2 mins
when we are at a petrol station i use the pay at pump kiosk if i cant i take them in asleep or not
i would never compromise the safety of my precious children not even for 2 mins, 2 mins of unsupervised parenting can and has caused some people a lifetime of sadness and but if only????

this just my opinion course im not pre judjing here

am i over protective your damned right i am....

i was begining to get a complex about being old fashioned and ove protective,but it seems more of you than at first seem to agree with the better safe than sorry aproache even with older children where crowds or other bussy space or danger may present.
we must alays think saftey first and even if your kids get embarassed or think you are over protective they will thank you one day.

Lots of the posts seem to be from mothers of 1 child. I wonder whether some of their perspctives might change when then have multiple littlies and the logistical challenges that poses?

I live in central london with a 1 & 2 yr old and I have no qualms about leaving them in their car seats, with the windows open ajar and the car locked whilst I pay for petrol/get cash/post letters.

I'm an ordinary, responsible, usually organised working mum (online shopping/snacks in my bag etc), but if we're on our way home and I realise that I have no dinner/milk etc or on ourway somewhere and they're hungry I will pop into a small shop where I can see them. This takes me no more than a minute or 2 compared to the major effort that is waking up/getting grumpy babies, buggies etc in and out of the car for a pint of milk! I wouldn't go into tescos or anything though.

And the children don't get petrified and scream when i do leave them for a moment.

I appreciate that it's a choice each parent must make, but to insiuate that it's irresponsible to do shocked me. Nor do I feel that I am risking my children's emotional well being by doing so. There are plenty of calculated risks that parents have to take. For me, this as a minor one. The world really isn't full of paedos and bad people and despite living in an area with lots of London busses i dont live in fear of them careering into us!

There is also an hotel we go to where we leave the babies in the room with the baby monitor service whilst we eat in their restaurant. Shock horror!

NN...Are you joking?

Not at all on a public highway, petrol station etc. Your own private driveway, unseen from the public road, then maybe ok to leave them (with doors open).
Very dangerous to leave them in a car at petrol station - the car is a fully charged bomb and it can go off! Ideally you should avoid refueling with children in the car.

- DANGER: These videos show people endangering their lives and the lives of others, including children. Watch at your own risk.
Video: Car Fire at Gas Station (cause: a match)
Video: Car crashes into pump
Video: Mobile phone use at petrol station

Petrol stations are very dangerous places, you don't know what other people will do. Don't leave children in the car.

Only when paying for petrol mainly because there are cameras everywhere and I can see them.

Words fail me. I read this yesterday and had to log off as I was so angry that most people were giving such measured, polite responses to this. I think if you have to ask you know really that you shouldn't do this. I have come back on and noticed that the above responses are getting a bit sharper, maybe this is due to the time, original post was two years ago, and now this week a policeman is in trouble for leaving his police dogs in the van, where they died in the heat. I bet he is thinking thank god it wasn't his children and here people are admitting they leave young children in cars/at home alone.
As parents we are guardians for other lives, if you aren't prepared to do everything possible to protect that life and keep it away from harm (not put it directly in harm's way) then why would you have children? Too simplistic??
I realise that being a parent means making decisions on what we have to do, not what we would like and that is tough, but why risk situations you don't need to face?
Why are your children badly behaved in shops? Shop online and use the time you save to teach your children right from wrong, they will thank you for it in the long run.
I think if you asked shoppers they would rather see a grumpy, groggy child being pulled around the shop than to know that child is outside alone in a car. Someone above has mentioned paranoia and I do agree that we need to use rational judgment and take into account the child's age and abilites etc, but please think before you leave your children. There is a first time for everything, and strange sets of unlikely, random events can and do happen, just think of Sara Payne, Madeleine McCann etc. That is off my chest and I may sleep better tonight.

I leave my children (aged 3 and 4) in the car whilst paying for petrol and also occasionally outside the shop if I need bread or electric etc. This is only because I can literally park next to the shop entrance. Never ever leave them for more than 3-5 minutes and the car is always in my view.

I just daren't do it for longer than that - Maddie McCannn just pops into my head!!!

Hope this helps - seems like everyone on here is pretty unanimous with only leaving them for a few minutes at a time.

kazzi glad we have more common ground than i thought at first. i totaly agree with your stratergy of discussing a place to meet etc and in normmal quiert to moderatly bussy places would do exactly the same. but given the huge crowds at wembley, the fact i didnt know the area and that we were under time presure on leaving to make transport times .it made more sence to me to have her safley attatched on a wrist rein and better safe than sorry. i wouldnt genrally resort to that with her day by day at her age ,but would do in very unfamiliar places such as bussy airports, or very crowded shops such as oxford street christmas shopping.

sorry wrong thread not sure how that happened meant home alone thread ......

good 4 you bbb

sorry - butted in there

I had a go at random bloke in the street today. Me and dh were walking to the park when posh chap pulls up along side us in lovely open-top jag. in passenger seat was a beautiful wee boy - prob bout 10 months. So the bloke jumps out walks up the street to a shop and goes in leaving the wee one sitiing there in his carseat. Am like and . Me and dh walk off and I'm and decided to go back and wait for man. Dh is like 'Leave it' (eastenders style) but I couldn't as I couldn't believe someone would be so stupid. Can you believe he left his baby alone in an opentop car and went into a shop where he could not have seen the car or baby???? Anyhoo man comes out of shop and sees me standing there (dh and W safely on other side of the road ) The bloke smiles at me in a 'yeh - isn't he adorable' kind of way but I said 'How could you leave him?? How could you?' Man looked angry and said 'He's my child' Pah. Ijust shook my head (very judgey )

So was IBU? Couldn't help myself. Couldn't leave child there by himself. never done anything like that before.

and made popcorn without a lid on the pan !

yeah till the room spun its all learning !

haha bet you had a fab time

11 was the age i was first left home alone and i got pissed as fart cos my mum did nt think it necessary to lock the booze cabinet ....oh what fun

LucyGreen, I'm a bit confused. Did you take your special needs daughter to a concert at Wembley? If so, I can see the need for a wrist link thing. If she is an ordinary 11 year old without any special needs, then I would dearly love for you to have a rethink of how you keep your daughter safe. Arrange beforehand with her to meet at a certain place should you get split up; both have mobile phones handy to communicate on; link arms FGS! But a wrist strap.... You're having us on, surely......????

My mum used to leave me alone at the age of 4 whilst she nipped to the shop, I'd never do that with my 4 yr old but I just think people are too over protective of children these days.

lucygreen, what is oldfashioned about not wanting to leave an 11 or 12yo alone at home? Surely everyone agrees that children used to have far more independence in previous generations? Can't have been many 12yos in our mothers' generation who were never left alone anywhere when they were of secondary school age.

When I was 11 I was allowed to take a boat out on my own, I cycled to school, I was out exploring on my own for hours on end- surely that was par for the course for my generation (born in the 60s)?

Personally, I think my dd is far safer staying at home on her own than crossing a busy road with me. And if I was driving, then she would certainly not be safer coming with me- that is how an awful lot of young children are killed: in their parents' car, while a parent Is driving.

I live in a lovely rural area where crime and day time traffic is practically non existent. I quite often leave 6mo DS strapped into his seat in a locked car and nip into the shop as it's the only place for miles to get cash. There's no machine, cash back only, so I expect I've probably left him for 5-10 mins occasionally. Is that so terrible? What could happen to him, really, in the middle of a Cornish village?

However I think I'd feel very different if I lived in a city...

I only ever pay at pump though; it can take eons to get served in petrol stations and all those cars hovering around in such close proximity makes me nervous about getting bumped and it'd be awful if that happened while DS was on his own in the car.

JoPie.
Chance are we will only ever have one baby. She will fall over, ride her bike, snog randoms at clubs when she's 15 and chances are get knocked down by traffic. I will allow her to play conkers and have a go on a unnetted trampoline

But I will never never never leave in the car on her own. Not for a long time anyway. [till she's 10?]

" I would never leave a child in someone else's car. Not without asking first. That would be extremely bad etiquette."
PMSL OrmIron, you naughty girl!

Petrol yes, otherwise it's not worth the risk. When mine were about 2 we were on hol & parked up to look at a view. We got out & were standing by the car. DS took the handbrake off, car gently rolled down slope into a gate! All OK.

Another time car was parked up & DH was birdwatching out of the sunroof. The DOG stood on the automatic sunroof-closing button and nearly chopped DH in half - he managed to stand on the other button just before it closed . Not nice.

only if i could see them

seeker,there was a case in britian(fairly recently) left in a car on a driveway for short period of time while parents were inside.the car engine caught fire and the child died .very unlikely to happen but possible

once id seen this story on the news thought twice about leavin mine in the car

"Do an internet shop and pay at the pump"

Good jesus are we not to leave the house anymore incase the remotest things might happen?
Don't cross a road with your child, they might get mown down by a bus.
Don't let them go to the park, a branch might fall off a tree and fall on their head, they might fall off a swing or a roundabout.
Don't go for a cycle, they might fall off.
Don't leave them in the car for the 60 seconds it takes to take a trolley back, or the 120 seconds it takes to go in and pay for petrol.
Don't get them out of bed in the morning, there are dangers lurking everywhere!
In fact, should you leave them alone in a bedroom at all, I mean imagine what might happen to them while you're not in the room!!

When did we all get so ridiculously paranoid about everything? Life is about balancing risk, about calculating what benefits outweigh what risks. How about just for once we assume that most of us, not all, but most, have enough of a brain in our heads to be able to judge when our children are safe enough and when not?

Oh I totally agree with the Wembley statement.....I'd probably do it differently tho if it was my child and discuss beforehand what to do in the event of getting lost ie meeting points etc and I'm not for one minute making any criticism as its not my place to judge anyones parenting skills and choices.

I'll happily leave my 10 yr old alone at home whilst I nip to the shop 5 mins away this isnt a big deal (and nor is it illegal), he can contact me by phone if need be, the yale lock is on so he can get out if he needs to but no one can get in and can always seek the help of a neighbour if he really needed to. Yes of course something could happen but as I've said on different boards we can't live life with a what if attitude where we constantly fear the worst.

I really dont believe in molly coddling children......trust me I've seen how molly coddled children end up as adults and it really isnt nice to see, some turn abusive as theyre so over sensitive you have to walk on egg shells around them constantly watching everything you say, others just can't cope with anything life throws at them as they dont have the neccessary life skills to handle the real world.

Obviously you do what you believe is right for your child but I really couldnt cope with the thought of my children being in their 20's and not being able to walk down a street for fear something might happen, not being able to stay at home alone for the same fears. Its a recipe for disaster and totally OTT

kazzi , i think its a case of every childs difrent and as i said ive probably alot more experience of adhd and aspergers kids than normal ones. but i have found out what works well for the special kids can also work very well for others too. yes i agree there are plenty of 11 year olds who get to and from school especialy in a group. but home or car alone could still be an issue. as i said in my previouse i know im protective and admire people who are not.
however i should think in a crowd of 80 000 coming out of wembley stadium its important for parents of even the most sencible kids to be very carefull.

Lucy Green with all due respect I think that is very extreme, a child starts high school at 11 by which age they should be independant enough to walk to school alone and responsible enough to be left at home for a short time. They really dont need mummy wiping their backside at that age.

Molly coddling children and wrapping them up in cotton wool does more emotional harm then good, it doesnt prepare them to live in an adult world, there will be situations in life where your daughter needs to cope alone and think for herself, how can she do this if she's never had the freedom to do so? Mummy wont be there to hold her hand forever.

Of course we should all take appropriate and responsible steps to protect our children but IMO wrapping them up in cotton wool.....especially teenagers won't help them.

Never. never. never. Not once.

Thank god for 'pay at the pump' machines. Husband thinks I;m over cautious but I don';t trust my two year old not to eat/throw/press something and I don';t trust the world with my very precious first born.

Stupid world. It hurst my arms!

i wouldnt leave a child under about 13 or 14 alone in a car, or alone at home, by that kind of age they can sencibly guess whats best to do in an emergency. with babies and younger kids imo the risks are to high. i doont know if its partly because ive worked with alot of adhd kids,but ive always been a great believer in reins(both the toddler ones and the crelling type older child special needs ones where required. or wrist straps and having kids walk with me wherever i need to go in a controlled way. the wrist straps are great even with older children if they are not good at staying close by , as they leave your hands free for paying and carrying shopping. my teenage daughter and i even resorted to one to stop us getting split up in the crowd when leaving take that at wembley earlier in the week.
maybe im old fashioned and over protective but have always taken the view better safe than sorry. and ive allways been hot on saftey gadgets etc.
i do admire some of you are are more laid back and less panicky and im sure your kids are secure and blessed by it, i just am not made that way.

All depends on if they are old enought to walk nicely, hold hands nicely, not run off, not lie on the floor screaming etc etc.

As I said before, carrying a heavy one year old and trying to hold on to a slippery hating holdy handy wilful nearly three year old. No way.

Not enough hands to get purse out to pay as well as all that.

It is different, but I still think it is irresponsable to leave your children unattended.

calculated risk with someone elses child is differant though isn't it? when i've got someone elses child with me i behave very differantly too as it's no longer only your own child you put at risk.

good luck with the baby

Pinktulips- I used to be a nanny before I had kids and even when I had four charges I would always drag them out with me to pay/pop in shop/whatever. You just can't be too careful. Maybe this is just due to where I live.
Anyway, am pg with the next one so will happily report back that I am doing the same in a few months' time.

turtle... i was quite sancitmonious when i just had dd too

i vividly remember a conversation with dp about how lazy it was to leave the kids in the car when droppping back a trolly and how i couldn't imagine how anyone could do that

didn't take long of having 2 running in differant directions before i changed my tune and realised weaving between cars on the forecourt with multiple kids was in no way safer than leaving them in the car.

now i have 3 and it would take me 20 mins to get them in and out of the car so i can't do that at a petrol station and hold everyone else up anyway

I understand why people do it, a friend of mine had 4 children under the age of 4 a few years ago (3 yr old, 1 yr old and twin babies), she wasnt a driver so never had that problem but imagine the struggle of trying to carry 2 babies in their car seats and also carry a one yr old that can't walk. Internet grocery shopping wasnt available back then, I think nowadays if that was me I'd use internet shopping in that type of situation but tbh I'm not a fan of internet shopping, its much more healthy for the mind to get out in the real world and do things yourself imo.

Also pay at the pump is no good for people like me who dont have a credit or debit card.....and dont wish to have one, but again I suppose theyre good for people who do have them and dont want to leave their children in the car whilst they nip into a shop.

Taking one child in with you to pay for petrol is quite different to taking in three or four plus though. Especially if they are toddlers and/or babies.

Do your shopping on the internet and pay at the pump.

Why anybody would leave their young child unattended out of convenience is beyond me. I would take DS in to pay for petrol even if he had just fallen asleep and would scream the place down.

I, personally, could not live with the guilt if something happened.

the only time i leave dd in the car is when i park next to the cashpoint at our local tesco (it has a waiting bay next to cashpoint)

I wind the windows down and chat to her while i use the cash point

she is 3.10 and will not stay in the car without me if she cant see me.

when she was little and used to fall asleep i would either put off the quick pop inot the shops or i would pop her in the buggy, figured if she's that tired she will go back to sleep.

I have heard far too many stories (real ones) about terrible things happening to children in cars - no way I am riskign that.

Never. What if something happens to YOU if you just pop out. If you got knocked down unconscious how long would it be before someone would find the child/children in a locked parked car or alone in a house?

Personally I think children are too precious to be left alone and unattended - even if they are sleeping peacefully. There is no 2nd chance!!

You think it's only 1min and it actually turns out to be 5mins. That is enough time for anyone to sprint away with a car at a petrol station or for you to have your attention diverted.

Just don't do it!!! Take them with you. Don't take a chance!!

My eldest children are aged 10 and 8 so I wouldnt think twice about leaving them for a few mins whilst I nipped into a shop but I always take my 4 year old in with me.

I only learnt to drive just before I had my baby and at that time the petrol station at my local Asda had a drive through section where you would pay so I always used that to save having to leave her in the car alone.

Only a few days ago I saw a woman leave a baby asleep in its car seat with the window wound completely down whilst she nipped into a shop, the thing that would worry me about that is it would have taken someone 30 seconds to kidnap that baby I think that was a really irresponsible thing to do.

agree with campion- the locked car aspect would really worry me

MissSunny Fri 03-Jul-09 21:38:29 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"Also CORY - You have left your kids at home for a few minutes at a time aged 5 or 6. Do you mean to pop in the garden or take the bins out or to actually go to the shops?"

When they were as young as 6 probably only for the shortest of trots down the street to post a letter tbh

by age 8 ds was making his way home from school and I would feel confident leaving him alone for an hour or so

Wouldn't leave a toddler alone anywhere though.

Just after we moved here a man left his 2 year old grandson in his car while he popped into a friend's house to deliver something. The car caught fire and the child was killed. That kind of haunted me. Cars do catch fire - not often, but they do.

If you're going to leave children in a car at say, a petrol station where you can see them, leave it unlocked. It's highly unlikely that anyone is going to drive off in it but a child could be rescued.If they are likely to get out of the car then maybe you should take them with you or use child locks.

Ok then, i have a 3 mo DD, im trying to give up smoking but know my local shop is open, so i could buy the ciggarettes i desperately want, is it ok to nip to the shops? after all she is asleep

Then for the little boy then, Whomoved. Poor little mite.

I too have done the 'car seat scrub out' routine a fair few times so I feel your pain . But this woman knew the store staff were calling her over the tannoy and stopped for fags, newspapers etc on the way back from the pharmacy as well as the medicine. She didn't make herself known to staff and say 'yes I'm okay, I'm coming back now' either.

I can honestly say I have never left my 2 DDs in the car alone, ever.

Would you leave your purse on the passenger seat?

Whomovedmychoc, not saying the grandma was in the right, but perhaps it was a prescription for her sick grandchild and said child was too ill to take with her into the supermarket, and she had no-one else to leave him with, but HAD to pick up the prescription for him?

I suppose we forget that there are all sorts of reasons for leaving a child unattended for a few minutes - it may not be through choice.

My poor DS1 (5) was off school ill recently with a temp and feeling nauseous and weak. Ds2 was in nursery and needed picking up at 12. There was no-one else to pick him up and DS1 said he wasn't feeling too sick so he came with me in the car to pick him up. By the time we got there, poor DS1 was feeling really sick - far too bad to go in and collect DS2. luckily I had parked direclty outside so left 5 yr old in the car and rushed into the building at lightning speed and picked up DS2.

Got back to the car, and in the space of 3 mins DS1 had been sick all over himself. Bad, bad mother. But what was I supposed to have done? The situation arose so quickly. Of course, in hindsight, I should have grabbed a parent going into the nursery to tell the staff of the situation and for one of them to bring DS2 out to the car. I should certainly have taken a sick bowl into the car for the journey in the first place. <snacks head and wonders why the hell this didn't occur to me.>

Luckly DS1 wasn't at all fazed, but served me right for not forward-planning - cleaning up vomit from car seat crevices is NOT nice.

Refer to this old thread of mine for my experience of just this issue. Would never leave mine in a hot car, but still can't give in to the furore around leaving them for a few minutes when the conditions are as relatively safe as possible...? Not sure of etiquette, except that I try to trust and use my better judgement. It's the opinions of the rest of the world that will make or break what is right or wrong unfortunately.

melmog - you are not alone! I sometimes think I am in a parallel universe.

I leave mine in the car, awake or asleep, if I can park right outside the shop or post office. I do the same at the petrol station. As long as I can see the car and know I will be a few mins tops, I don't see the problem.

I shop online mostly so I don't have to take dds (1 and 3) shopping too often but for things like milk and bread when I am only going to be 2 mins I do it.

I'll also leave them on the drive asleep (waking the big one leads to the mother of all melt downs) but sit in the front room at the window. Not on a hot day obviously.

I really resent the attitude that I must be a terrible, risk taking, irresponsible mother for doing this.

Go into the petrol station, across a busy forecourt carrying a 1 year old and trying to hold on to a nearly 3 year old? You must be joking.

I have regularly told off people leaving kids in the P&T spaces at Sainsburys - one poor little boy was screaming and so scared he'd been sick on himself. His granny had just decided she wouldn't be long - she'd run in to get a prescription (always takes forever in this Sainsburys) and she was gone for 20 minutes at least because I stood there for twenty minutes, talking to him through the window while on the phone to the police and the store - who were trying to locate her desperately.

She was really angry with me for complaining!

Poor kid

I totally agree with Newqueenofmumsnet and Miss Sunny

My 2 yr old is my responsibility , and is never ever left in a car, where I cannot see her. I don't even leave her in the car to get petrol.

Also agree with MissSunny, On holiday, DD comes out to dinner with us in her buggy. Otherwise we eat in our room.

Noone could ever change my mind on this.

totally agree with the lovely noiamthenewqueenofmn i couldnt have but it better myself my ds is hard work i am alone parent but i do things when he is at nursery or he comes, thought that was normal

Old thread, but I will still add my tuppenceworth

I will only leave DD (22 months) in a locked car when paying for petrol - and she is always in full sight, although I do try & use pay @ pump where possible. If she's asleep when we get home, I park on the drive outside my house, go to the front room where I can look out directly at her and mumsnet read the papers.

I have heard/seen some real horror stories (imo) though. For example, pre-natal Mums meeting up at one of their houses, all having lunch together while their babies are left in the cars outside.

Once I stopped at a motorway services on the way home. In the car parked next to me were 2 very small children - one toddler perhaps 3 years old & one baby less than 1 year. They were by themselves. I went into the services, was a good 5-10 minutes & they were still there, alone, when I went back to the car. I waited until their mother came back until I left. I didn't say anything to her and I really, really regret that. I think I should have called the police or at least have alerted the shop about the children.

Just pondering.....I wonder if it's just the way our mindset is, which determines what we think is acceptable. ie. how much of a risk-taker you are in other areas of life.

For me, before having children, I would happily have done a parachute jump. Been very scared, and aware that there was a small risk of something going wrong and I could die, but I would have done it I think. Now, with the responsibilities of children, I don't think that I would willingly put myself in that position. ie. there is a tiny chance I would die, therefore depriving my children of their mother, therefore I would not run the risk and so would not do a parachute jump. Not till they were 18 anyway.

There was a documentary on a couple of months back about some adventurer/explorer type who was aiming to cross the sea between Australia and New Zealand in a canoe, totally unaided, without backup, and without radio contact for a large part of the trip. (I think those were the details - can't quite remember, which is quite tragic and ironic when I think of the outcome). He had a toddler son, and he KNEW that the chance of death was actually very high. Yet he still went ahead with it. And he didn't make it - he drowned. Wife left a widow, son left without a dad. Becuase he was a risk-taker - to the extreme, admittedly, but it was just in his mind-set.

I don't know.....I think I am waffling and pondering too much here thanks to the Friday night wine.

I would never leave a child in someone else's car. Not without asking first. That would be extremely bad etiquette.

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Personally I wouldn't ever leave my DD in a locked car, not for one minute, not if I could see it all the time. She's my responsibility, even when I need to shop, post a letter or buy petrol. Yeah, it's harder work, but she's worth it.

I leave my 3 at petrol station or at village post office where I can see them all the time. Not otherwise- it's just not worth the worry. I know how hard shopping with littlies is - 1 had 3 under 3 years old ... that's when I discovered the joys of internet shopping - freedom at last!!

It's beyond belief that anyone would leave a child in the car that wasn't in full view, and for longer than a couple of minutes. Beyond belief. Doesn't matter whether they are asleep or not. If they are asleep they could wake up, wonder where on earth mummy was and when she was coming back and be petrified. I'm sorry, but I can't understand the mentality of people who are prepared to risk the emotional security of their own child, never mind all the other more dangerous possible scenarios already mentioned.

As someone has already mentioned, and really sums the whole thing up, you would not leave your handbag or laptop on full show in your car - why on earth would you think leaving a child would be acceptable?

I leave my 3 year old to get petrol but pay at pump, or if it's not available I lock the doors and can see the car from the kiosk. He is also old enough to understand the explanation of where I've gone for 2 minutes.

Just can't understand the blase attitude.....to be prepared to take a risk where your child's safety is concerned.

I never do , not even to pay for petrol. I've heard too many stories of cars been stolen from forecourts with kids in back. I might do when Ds is older but he's only 18 months atm.

I pop into my mil's farm shop once a week and leave dd1 2.5 & month old dd2 asleep in the car. All the windows are open, the doors are locked, it's parked in the shade and I can see them from the shop. It's in a small village and everyone there knows my car and who my mil is. I also leave them in the car to get petrol because obviously they're in full view (and my brother runs the petrol station!). Other than that, no, no, no!

It's all fine until something awful happens, then you're a shit parent .... but isn't it illegal anyway? I wouldn't leave mine alone until they are around 8 years old.

Goober I didn't read Cory's post as 'judging' ... maybe you should have mentioned you dc had special needs as it's obvious to most parents a 14 year old would be ok left in a car .... have I got that right?

I can't believe this has been dredged up again!

Cory My 14 year old DS1 DOES indeed have special needs, but thanks for judging.

mine are 4, alomost 3 and 4 months.

i leave them to pay for petrol or to put the trolly back as i honestly think in those situations it's safer to leave young kids in the car than try and traffic dodge with them.

i leave the ds's in the car for 5 mins while i walk dd into playschool; remote location, plenty of other moms about the place.

i always wake them and drag them with me if i'm going into shops though, even if it's just 5 mins. either that or if at all possible i sit for a while and let ds1 seep as he's cranky if woken too soon or else i put off the shopping til it's more convenient... imo a wedding gift was hardly urgent enough to have to be done that very second, you ust have had plenty of warning and therefore lots of other opportunities to buy it.

I think you have to use your common sense. I usually leave dc's in the car to pay for petrol if I can't use pay at the pump but I wouldn't if the queue was really long and my car is right at the back of the petrol line. I have parked outside our local shop - off road run in for milk - no queue and leapt back in the car again. Same for posting a letter. After all at most Post boxes you can actually park next to them. But no to leaving in public/supermarket car park, going in the post office etc because you are obviously away from the car.

Both DC's have slept in the car while I out the shopping away (on drive, in front of a window or in DH's car in the garage) but not when it is a sweltering hot sunny day.

As for the hotel thing, a small family run hotel with a baby monitor next to you at the hotel's own restaurant is not a problem IMO. Leaving children in an apartment and walking to a restaurant down the road is too far away. But again this wouldn't be unreasonable if your eldest DC was of an age to sit with the littlies while they are sleeping. If your eldest is very immature you wouldn't leave them with the responsibility if you know they can't handle it.

Yes older children are different you would give them more independence, espcailly if there is an older child with the younger child, I am mostly referring to little ones like toddlers and pre schoolers.

Goober on Mon 22-Sep-08 08:26:26
"Only at a petrol station. With doors loked and under strict instruction to hit the horn if they get frightenned and not to open the doors.
Mine are 9 12 and 14."

I can't imagine locking a 14yo in and giving instructions not to open the door. To me, a 14yo is someone who should, at the very least, be able to cope with a train journey on their own, somebody who goes out with their mates and who ought to be able to babysit younger children, somebody who will probably be moving from home in another four years' time. Somebody who needs to use their own initiative in dealing with unexpected situations. Unless of course your children have SN.

If I just have my 2.7 year old DS, I will only leave him in the car if getting petrol or at the cashpoint.

If I have my almost 11 year old DD too, I leave them together and will pop into Sainsbury's to get a few bits etc. She has a mobile phone and could call me if there was a problem. She is also very sensible. No more than ten or so minutes though.

I am quite surprised at the poster who has three children ranging from 9 to 14 who will only leave them to get petrol with the doors locked and strict instructions as to what to do if they get frightened.... At this age they would get frightened?

In my opinion Luxmum, I would take them out of the car into the shops even if they are grumpy it does not matter, better be safe than sorry. I would rather have my daughter here with me and grumpy, than kidnapped or killed(perish the thought. It only takes a few mins for a child rapist paedophile to break in and kidnap. A child is the most precious thing in the world, totally irreplacable. YOu would not leave you handbag in the car, you certainly would not leave a child even for 10 mins.

OK, just read through all these and personally I wouldn't do it other than paying for petrol or posting a letter where I could see the car at all times, or running into the house to grab whatever I have forgotten.

However, I'm surprised no one has mentioned nutters loitering around. What if a drug addict, loonatic, boy racer or other decided to steal your car. What if a child molester (wow, do we even use that word anymore? ) saw the childrena and deided to steal your car. These things are much more in the forefront of my mind than whether my child would be scared when waking up. You'd never forgive yourself if your car got stolen with them in it.

I have left mine in the house for short periods since age 5 or 6- because I know if something happened to me and I didn't come back, they would be able to get out, they could get hold of the neighbours, ring Daddy at work etc. I would feel a bit more concerned about a locked car- unless I'm close enough to see them/somebody else knows they're there. Basically, I don't want my dcs to be in any situation that they can't get out of.

though I don't get this argument by devotion:

"what if a car hit your parked car or worse even - a bus."

well if it did- your presence in the car would provide absolutely no protection

on both occasions that dd has been in a car that's been hit at least one responsible adults has been present- that didn't stop the accident; and if it had been a more serious bump, she would have got just as injured if an adult was sitting next to her

if the car was hit I don't suppose it would be any consolation to dd that I was killed too

I don't think the McCann reference is relevant.
Agree it not ettiquette. Its risk. A risk calculation. We would never step outside our door, if we weren't careful.

Supercherry - do you sit in your child's room in your own home and watch them sleep all night. No you do not. But hey someone could break into your house and steal your child when you're asleep!

What happened to Madeleine is terrible and I'm not condoning leaving your child alone in room a long walk away. But eating in a restaurant below your locked bedroom with baby monitors is acceptable in my book!

You have to make a balance of being cautious but not over cautious. I am worried for the next generation, being wrapped in cotton wool and never allowed any freedom/trust. What is it going to do to them?

The world has been swarmed in unnecessary paranoia mainly because of the media. There has been no increase in the amount of paedophiles in the world.

Yes terrible things do happen - and God forbid any thing happens to anyones child but the sad reality is things will happen to even the most cautious of people - but worrying about the 'what ifs' could drive you to insanity and you would end up doing nothing and going nowhere!! Where upon your house might be struck by lightning killing everyone in it!

I saw an interview on TV once with a lady who left her daughter in the car for a few minutes while shopping. The car had a problem (unbeknown to her) and the engine started smoking, then flaming, while she was gone. They managed to get her daughter out but she was badly burned and facially scared for life. How guilty would you feel if something like that happend to your child!

Having just recognised a post on here I see I have already answered when I had a different name and this is a pretty old thread, courtesy of gingertiger7.

The sound the horn if you are scared is only going to work if they can get out of their seat belts, know where the horn is and can work it.

I am not sure this counts as "etiquette." IMO etiquette is about manners and social situations.

You have to make your own decisions about what to do with your own kids, there is no real handbook.

I leave the kids in the car when paying for diesel and no other time.

What is the etiquette for leaving children in cars? If you can't see them, don't do it.

Sod the inconvenience aspect that alot of you seem to be spouting, surely you didn't have children without expecting some inconvenience? You plan your days/shopping etc around them, not the other way around.

Those of you considering leaving children alone in hotel rooms- did you totally miss the Madeleine McCann story? I mean, seriously, why on earth would you take any risks where your children are concerned?

Sorry to sound all judgy and self righteous but I am quite appalled by some of the attitudes on this thread.

I only leave dd(4) and ds(2) in the car if nipping into the postoffice/chemist (or similar) where I can see the car and I never take my eye off it..

At petrol stations I pay at pumps usually.

If ds/ds fell asleep in the car then I would wake them up, never leave them...

Im quite routine orientated though and arrnage stuff around nap times.
I have had friends come to our and leave their ds asleep in the car..Oh and it was a hot day so they left the car engine running for the air con . Car was quite a desirable one as well...could easily have been taken...

and ... the car was on the drive which you can't see from our home iykwim.

Not worth the risk...

LOL Sept 2008, must be really slow on here

Not sure why this old thread has been resurrected.

illegal LOL

chilren?

children

It's illegal isnt it?

I would never leave my children in a car on the high street while i ran into a shop, what if a car hit your parked car or worse even - a bus. You would never forgive yourself. Even worse a car park people would not notice someone braking into your car.

Children get up to all sorts when left alone.

When I was younger my older sister (about 10) took the handbrake off my dads old van whilst parked on a hill. Luckily he managed to catch up and jump in. She got in BIG trouble that day and my dad learnt a lesson too.

A nutter could also come up to the car and pretend that he knows you and you told him to get them out. Its just not worth it.

I would wake them up any day rather than risking them.

I see mums do it and I dont think its right.

They say dont leave your dog in a car so definitely not your chilren!

Its not fecking ettiquette its what is safe or not safe.

We left my cousin in the car the other day, she's 25 and from Australia. I popped into a supermarket but she didn't want to come, dh went to look at used cars leaving her with the dcs in the car. She must have nodded off in the 10 mins dh was gone, next thing she was on the phone to my dad saying she'd been abandoned and didn't know what to do.

If it could be that disorientating to an adult I hate to think how terrified my dcs would be. I don't drive so not an issue for me but not something I would feel comfortable doing.

I only leave her if I can see her which is only when I go to get a trolley and pay for a parking ticket at the supermarket.

currymaid I think that's the best solution, but we can only get away for 2-3 nights midweek and have to go to a remote part of Scotland so haven't been able to find a self catering option. Logically I am sure it will be OK but in reality I suspect we will end up eating room service in the bathroom!

Only to pay for petrol and only since she turned about 2 and I can explain to her what I'm doing.

She's nearly 4 now and I totally wouldn't trust her in the car alone. She's very keen to drive my car and would be straight into the drivers seat and fiddling with everything.

I used to leave ds2 (19 months) in the car while I popped in to pay for petrol, but now I take him with me as he's started getting upset if he can't see me (even though I can see him through the window).

I don't leave him at any other time either, even to sleep in the car in the driveway. I think it'd be very disorientating and probably frightening for him if he woke up and I was nowhere to be seen.

(disclaimer- although he is ds2 there's a big age gap between him and ds1 so I'm a bit PFB about him....)

I will go and pay for petrol as long as they are within eyesight but thats it.

I wouldn't leave them in a car where they weren't able to see me, I really think they would be very frightened. 5 minutes seems like an eternity to small children.

Also bored. And God only knows what bored 6 and 4 year old ds's would get up to in a car. The mind boggles

I leave my DS/DD (3.10 and 1) in car when paying for petrol, popping into a shop for a coffee or newspaper/milk etc (car right outside the shop, gone for less than 2/3 mins).

I also leave DD asleep in car outside DS's nursery while I take him in/pick him up. I don't feel entirely comfortable doing this as the car is out of view and I could be up to 5 mins, but I always leave the window open an inch and the car locked and other parents coming and going know each others cars and children and keep an eye out. The alternative, waking her up when she has been asleep for maybe 5 mins and would be miserable and not go back to sleep, just seems too unfair and the risk of something bad happening so tiny.

I also let DC's sleep in car on drive with car locked and windows open. As soon as they wake up and move the alarm goes off and I check them regularly and am mostly watching the car from inside the house anyway.

I definitely wouldn't leave them for more than a couple of minutes if I was doing something on my own (as compared to nursery situation where plenty of people know that I usually have DD with me). Apart from the risks to the DC's, as others have said, if anything happened to me, no one would know about the children being there.

Don't know what other people do but we do self-catering apartment to avoid exactly the situation you mention.

I leave my 6 month DD in the car to pay for petrol - safer imo than walking her across the forecourt.

I have also left her a couple of times in full view for no more than 2 minutes to pop into the butchers (parking immediately outside plate glass window), when she's been asleep and I don't want to wake her (park so I can see her face).

I am going away in a few months to a small family run hotel which we go to every year and am contemplating whether it would be ok to put her to bed in the room and have a meal with baby monitors in the restaurant downstairs. It is quite likely that we will be the only guests and she is so miserable if she doesn't get to bed on time (plus will not sleep with us in the room)that as far as I can see the only alternative would be for us all to go to bed in the pitch dark at 7. What do other people do?

I would never leave her in the car when I couldn't see her/the car though. Too paranoid!

I never leave my DD in the car, even for petrol, but I only have one child so it's pretty easy to take her with me.

It's just one of those things that's outside of my comfort zone - same as leaving my dog tied up outside a shop, I don't feel comfortble doing it.

opps should be a few they instead of the in there

Well said Ginger. I leave my ds to pay for petrol, parking tickets etc. he can and will get out of his seat belt but i generally give him the choice or explain that it will take half the time i go on own. Give him a Spongebob mag and he is absorbed for hours far more interesting then paying for petrol. PLus if anyone tried to steal the car the would probably get concussion from all the things ds would hurl at them before the even got the engine started

I'm surprised any of you actually get in your car and drive with your children - you know thats far more dangerous than leaving your child in a locked car for 1-10 minutes - seen or unseen!

I have left my daughter since she was a baby now 3 in the car to post letters, pay for petrol, nip to get a small amount of groceries, get cash out, always in a locked. well-ventilated car. I've also left my daughter asleep in a small hotel and gone to dinner with the baby monitors.

I realise it this does depend on the child and perhaps where you live but you can't account for everything that can happen. I trust mine daughter and know she's not suddenly going to unbuckle her car seat and undo the handbrake!

Yes there are risks, but hell - there are risks doing anything!

I would have reported her for that.

I knew someone once who left her daughter every day in the car during her nap for one hour when she went shopping. She said 'I don't care what anyone says...' She also claimed to be a lone parent when she wasn't and lied to get her child into a school but that's another story...

I pay at pump and take him in with me if it is ever out of order despite it being a complete ball ache! I wouldn't leave him in the car alone out of sight ever. He is a PFB tho

I never do, but I would consider it at a petrol station, though ds would go mental.
I am often surprised by friends who leave their los asleep in the car while they nip into a shop where they can't see them. If you can see them, it's ok.

I leave mine asleep outside the house but with me sitting inside with door open so I can see them constantly

I also leave them at petrol station though always try and do the fastpay ones

but never out of sight god if the car was stolen....

It would be great to be able to do this or that and leave them in the car but the joy of the quick shop is never going to make up for a terrible tradegy happening because I didn't want to take them with me.

It's not about what harm can come to them - what if something happened to you and you couldn't get back?

I haven't yet left DS anywhere, he is only 11 months. I might leave him to pay for petrol if I could see the car. Otherwise, no, he comes with me.

I leave mine in the car while I pay for diesel. I have left them all together (wouldn't leave DS2 without DS1 for example) to run in the co-op for a paper and milk but won't again as DH not happy.

10 minutes is too long unless you can see the car at all times.

They should be fine as long as no one steals your car (with them in it). It has happened....

Maybe petrol station if there's no queue and you can see them. Cash machine same.

Having said that, I wouldn't leave mine because they wouldn't stay in the car! I'd turn round to see them legging it across the forecourt, so they are safer coming with me!!

Re them being asleep - You don't know that they'll stay asleep, they may have stayed asleep every time for a year and then one time they'll wake up. Imagine if they woke up and you were nowhere to be found. 5 or 10 minutes is a bloody long time for a child who's woken up, is disorientated and doesn't know where the hell their mum is!

I have seen kids alone in cars, clearly distressed, sobbing and almost screaming. clearly very scared. And I know that their mum will have just popped to the shop while they were asleep, thinking they'd be ok and still be asleep when she got back, because they have been before. It's just not worth it, imo.

I've left DD, sleeping when smaller and awake now that she's 4, while paying for petrol and while popping into the shop for milk. The latter is rare because I only ever do it with our local Co-Op, which is so close that I'd only be driving if I was on the way back from somewhere. I can see her in both circumstances, she is fairly 'sensible', has no history of fiddling with car controls ... and has neither a younger sibling to get upset, or an older one to egg her on into doing something daft.

Also used to leave her sleeping in the car on the drive when she was smaller, for long enough to come in, get a book, check my email, make a cup of tea ... with intermittent peering out of the window to make sure she'd not woken up. Then I'd go and sit in the car with my book and tea (no wifi then, worse luck).

Paying for petrol or other situation where I can see them - less than 5 minutes.

Occasionally if DD is asleep / we are in a rush I leave her in the car for 2 minutes while I take DS into school - parked on school drive, everyone knows everyone else's cars and would let me know if she had woken up.

I like the 'sound the horn if you are frightened' rule - will try that next time on DS.

I may be stupid, but I don't see what harm could come to a sleeping child left in the the shade in a locked car for 5-10 minutes.

I've left dd strapped in her seat with the door locked whilst paying for petrol or popping into the village shop for milk/bread. No more than 5 minutes. She's 16 months

I leave them if I have to pay for petrol, or posting a letter etc through friends door.
I would not leave them while I went to shop/bank.
I have left them in the car parked directly outside our front door, with windows open while I sit in front room and can keep an eye. If I disturbed them by getting them out of the car when they were younger they would not go off to sleep again.

But I would never leave them in a car where I couldn't see them even for a minute.

I only ever leave DD in the car when I know she will be in full sight for the minute or so that I am gone for - eg paying for petrol. But I always try to plan ahead anyway and fill up with petrol at a pay @ the pump or when DH has DD. I would never leave her alone in the car if she was going to be out of sight.

I was so shocked recently when a really good friend (have known her for 30+ years) told me that she regularly left her baby son (now 6 months old) in the car while she 'popped' into pubs and restaurants trying to flog chefs some produce. I asked how long she was gone and she said anything from 10 to 30 minutes as the chefs loved her stuff!! It had not occurred to her that leaving a small baby alone in a car in sometimes remote pub car parks could be a problem!

I leave ds (3) in the car when paying for petrol, if I am popping to a friends house and knock on her door first to see if she is in before I haul him out if the car, while putting shopping trolley away after shopping and if he fell asleep I would leave him on the driveway for a few minutes.
Don't see an issue just for a minute whilst door is locked.
I would not however leave him in the car whilst I did my shopping. I would worry more about him getting out of his booster seat and fiddling with the car controls, letting off the handbrake that kind of thing as he is very into the workings of the car at the moment and has a fascination with the sunroof!
(I can't have him in the front of the car at all as he always tries to change gear when I am driving and when I drove my auto he put me into 2nd gear whilst driving at 40!)

I have left mine from toddler stage onwards in the car outside the little village shop in our small community while I dashed in to buy milk or a newspaper. They were in sight all the time.

Ditto in their prams outside the same village shop. Obviously heatstroke isn't going to be a problem in England for five minutes (if it was particularly hot, you would think again). And I don't think anyone has been jailed for this.

It's commonsense. Obviously you wouldn't leave small children out of sight in a huge carpark outside a large supermarket.

only for petrol cos I can see them.

I leave DS for 2 mins at the petrol station/the cash point at the petrol station.

I leave him asleep in the car but go to my nans or my mums where I park right at the top of the drive with the doors open & I usually sit in on the wifi or sit in the garden reading the paper watching the car.

other than that no -wouldn't leave him to go into a shop. he's 2.5

I'll never forget a documentary I saw where a grandmother was going to just 'pop to the chemist' and left her two grandchildren in the car. It was the summer of 2003, admittedly, which was a heat wave.

She got held up, got disorientated, then collapsed. On the way to the hospital she asked for the children. They had to search for them, ambulance went back to all the car parks in the area. They found them, but it was too late and attempts to resuscitate failed.

She was thinking of the children - she didn't want them to have to traipse to the chemist. But they died.

Imo paying for petrol is fine, in fact, if you can see your car then 2mins in a shop is fine. If you cannot see them then, imo you should take them with you.
i went to tesco the other sat and someone had left a toddler and a small baby in their car, parked. I thought that they'd gone for a trolly or something, but a staff member said they'd been there for more than a few mins. The baby was screaming and the toddler was holding babes hand. The toddler looked scared :-(

Only at a petrol station. With doors loked and under strict instruction to hit the horn if they get frightenned and not to open the doors.
Mine are 9 12 and 14.

Only for paying for petrol - and I lock the car. Also when ds is asleep in the car in front of the house.

Only when paying for petrol. And I've stopped doing even that now you can pay at the pump at my local.

I do leave them to pay for petrol as imo its safer than walking them across the forecourt.
I have also left the oldre ones age 9 with ds1 for 5 minutes while I whipped into a shop and was parked directly outside but thats the riskiest I would consider to be honest.
I would not leave young ones in the car to go to the shops though its only if the big ones are in there and I DON'T lock the doors. They are old enough to honk the horn if anyone approaches the car.

Can't you do this shopping at weekends? Or first thing in the morning when they aren't tired and less likely to be grumpy?

Take stickers and reward them for a sticker for every shop they behave in.

Two minutes for petrol, on a forecourt where you can see them, which is covered by cctv isn't going to be a problem. Doing shopping is.

'In 2003, 42 children died of heat stroke because they had been left inside
a vehicle. In July and August 2003, 22 children tragically died after being
trapped in car trunks. Leaving children unattended in or around vehicles is a
serious problem. More than one thousand cases involving injury or death
have been documented so far. Those injuries and deaths were caused by
heat stroke, a vehicle being put in motion by a child, children being hit by
vehicles backing up, children choking while alone in a car, being kidnapped,
toxic fumes, activation of automatic power controls, or being trapped in car
trunks. Children should never be left unattended in or around vehicles.'

- from an American article

You may think your children are safe strapped into their seats but at some point they are going to learn to undo them, and it could happen at any time. I didn't think my 18mnth old could open windows until he opened it and jumped out from the first floor. Young children need supervision.

Please don't do it, even if nothing happens, you will get reported sooner or later, and people have been jailed for it.

Not at all? For 2 minutes while you pay for the petrol? Or longer?? I have been leaving my sleeping children in the car (not hot day, in the shade, doors locked for no more than 10 minutes) to go to shops I know they would be hell in, for a few minutes or so. I then come back, they are still asleep, (it being their nap time) and we then go home. Is this wrong? I feel bad doing it, but I would feel worse waking them both up during their naps, hauling their grumpy bodies out of the car and bringing them to inappropriate shops (ie a china shop where I had to get a wedding present). Am I a bad parent??