Explaining Autism to a 4 year old

[THERESA]

My daughter is nerarly 4 and quite bright. At a birthday party recently there was a 7 year old boy with Autism. He bumped into her a few times and I think he hit her once. We tried to make light of it, saying it was just an accident, whilst thanking our lucky stars for 2 healthy children. Then at a soft play yesterday another boy whacked her over the head. I was understandably quite cross and told him so, when his dad came dashing over and explained that he had Autism and so I found myself apologising for my reaction. I decided that jenny need an explanation as she was referring to him as a 'very naughty boy'. I said that he had something wrong in his head which made him do things that seemed naughty and we were very lucky that we didn't have anything wrong in our heads. I really don't know whether this was well handled or not. What does anyone else think?

[WideWebWitch]

A friends' 5yo daughter has been asking about this and my friend explained it by saying that autism means that the autistic childs' brain doesn't work in the same way as hers - not bad, just different. I think that's a fair explanation for that age. I'd probably try to steer away from negative descriptions (although I know there is negative behaviour sometimes associated with autism) and explain that his brain just works differently to hers and this means his behaviour is likely to be different too. I think you were right to apologise since the boy very likely can't control this behaviour.

[Loobie]

thank you for understanding people,my son is autistic and can be known though not often to hit out at other kids,i see parents looking and telling there kids how 'hes just a naughty boy and keep away from him' but really to be kept away from is the worst thing for him as he doesn't understand he done wrong,it is absolutely wonderful to hear of people wishing to take the time to explain to their children that these kids arent in fact naughty just different,thank you you have restored my faith in human nature

[rainthepain]

AS a parent of a teenage boy with Autism I have experienced all the embarrassing situations related to this for 16 years. just because a child is autistic doesnt make hitting an acceptable thing.My son has a well developed sense of what is right and wrong now,but this wasnt achieved by letting him get away with bad behaviour!Sure, explain why he is acting a little strangely, but I feel that as a parent we can at least try to get our autistic children to apologize for hurting other children.They need to know that their behaviour has consequences.We cant invalidate normal childrens feelings because our kids are different.As for telling a child that another should be excused because he is autistic, I think it would be more appropriate to stress to our children that all kids are different and that not all children behave well, all the time! After all, it might be your child tommorrow! Also,I would never tell any child what i think of his behaviour, this should be aimed at his parents in a constructive and tactful way. I would recommend dealing with an autisic child by insisting on time-out if he keeps hitting children when in a social setting.As parents of autistic children, we deserve understanding and support, but we do not have the right to expect other children to cope with violence just so our children can join in. Try to stand back a bit and read the whole situation and be sensitive to all the children within any social group that your autistic child is part of.

[PeachyClair]

My As son hits a lot. We are working on it, but have made very little progress so far (he's off to BIBIC soon).

I have told DS2, who gets the brunt of this, that DS1's brain doesn't understand anger and fear very well, and this is what makes him hit out. I think it is a frustration thing as Sam is high functioning but it is sad and altho Sam doesn't mind, it brekas my heart he doesnt have any 'real' friends. At his alst school the parents tried to have him removed, but I think the kids at this school have discussed it and seem to understand a bit more- also they challenge him constantly with harder and harder work and that helps.

Sam never gets away with the violence, but TBH it doesn't make a shred of difference. he ahs AS days (usually due to sleep problems or a routine change) and non-As days (most days) and these are quite distinct.

[PeachyClair]

We can't try time out on AS days any more. . Last time we did he caused so much damage to the house that we lost our home and deposit: next time we won't be able to move again as our savings were lost like that and we would be homeless. Fear makes us partially ineffective I guess.

[chocolatequeen]

Very interested to hear your point of view rain - also like your post loobie - I guess it's just up to the parents how they want strangers to 'handle' the behaviour of autistic children.

I don't want to hijack your thread theresa, but I was also wondering how to deal with my DS, who's 3 showing great interest in disabled people - he always comments on wheelchair users, blind people etc. I want him to grow up being sensitive to people who are not like him (obviously), but not really sure how to do it properly. At the moment, we say that people in wheelchairs are 'a bit poorly', as I think that's all he can understand at the moment, but where do we go from here?

Thanks all x

[matnanplus]

Explain stressing the bit that is different to your child.

wheelchair=legs

autism=brain/head

they can then get the idea and understand blind=eyes etc

[coppertop]

I think that being able to make an autistic child understand that violence is unacceptable will ultimately depend on the child's ability to understand. Not all children on the spectrum will be able to understand the concept of right and wrong. You can use redirection and/or reinforcement but it won't necessarily lead to the child being able to understand that they are hurting others.

I'm fortunate that ds1 and ds2 are at the higher end of the spectrum but ds2 has absolutely no idea what right and wrong are. If he was hitting others then of course I would remove him from the situation but as he has no ability to generalise he wouldn't necessarily realise that the same rules apply at, for example, another venue or with different children.

[PeachyClair]

I wonder if it depends on the personality that your child has without the AS? Sam is on the higher end- actually he is an Aspergers child- yet we can't move on this. Many of his relatives have anger issues, (although he has never witnessed them before you ask!. I wonder if he has this genetically - a short fuse- and his AS makes it worse / harder to amend?

[coppertop]

PeachyClair - I'm sure personality must come into it too. Ds1 is a fairly easygoing little boy as long as everything remains how he expects it to, ie no changes to routine, routes etc. Ds2 has a terrible temper and regularly sounds as though he's auditioning for the lead role in "The Exorcist". Both are IMHO at a similar point on the spectrum yet ds2 is far more volatile than ds1 ever was.

[Jimjams]

"but I feel that as a parent we can at least try to get our autistic children to apologize for hurting other children."

err not if your child is non-verbal- you can't.

[rainthepain]

I didnt mean to imply that a child with severe autism without speech could be made to understand or apologize for bad behaviour. From my own experience, it is autistic children with middle autistic spectrum ie mainstream school with support,who find themselves mixing most with other children. Of course I do understand that there is such a variation of severity and didnt mean to hurt anybody's feelings. All I can say is that I was like a lot of parents in that my son started mainstream school with no useful speech and had intense language and speech therapy for 2 years.He hid under a chair on the first day and was dragged out by his special needs assistant.He also has ADHD and his hyperactivity and behavioural problems had me begging for mercy. BUT there is hope.By the time he left primary school he had achieved levels, 4,4,and 5 in his SATS. HE is still very hyperactive, he has now been disgnosed with Aspergers and apart from the lists and endless stream of information he is manageable child and although he needs lots of support, we can take him out for family meals now with careful handling.He is a big strong boy blond and very handsome and although I suspect we will have him with us till we die, we would not be without him. HE is funny interesting engaging and is learning to behave more appropriately in public.Yet when he was five he had just left a special school and I was devastated at his diagnosis. Infact I think I have only just got over it. The reason I feel that we must do everything we can to encourage Autistic kids to interact well with others is that more than ever with the closure of Special Schools They find themselves in a Mainstream situation that does not do enough for their individual problems. Unfortunately, conformity is all in this society and there is little tolerance by adults or children for people who are a little bit different. Infact I think the word Geek was invented for children like ours. My son certainly gets it a lot!He is tormented and called names every day of his school life. How much more stronger and wonderful is he then if he can go to school every day and learn to ignore it. I know I certainly couldnt. I dont know if I will write any more about this subject, Ive probably said enough already, but when my son was young there was noone who had older children who had had special support and therapy who could tell me of any possible outcome. Of course I can only tell you about my son, but I assure you that we are just an ordinary working class family who have had little support, but we have just soldiered on, got through and waited for him to grow up and mature. We love him of course we find that helps!

[lyra41]

He could learn to sign "sorry," whilst you translate for the person who's been hurt.

[Jimjams]

you are joking lyra? ds1 has never learned to sign anything. Not with years of exposure to sign. He could pass a pecs card with prompting- but what's the point? PECS is for him to communicate his needs, not to be socially acceptable. He has no concept of "sorry" or of hurting someone else and if he does hurt someone else (which is very rare) it's in a fight or flight sense. Not for aggression.

Luckily my son is at special school. Thank god.

rainthepain- FWIW I agree with the essence of what you said- we do try to teach socially acceptable behaviur- it is the most important par tof his education and the reason why his school is so great (trips to supermarlkets, cafes etc) but as CT said it has to be within a child's ability- and the things you are suggesting are way outside the ability of severely autistic children.

[rainthepain]

To Lyra and Jimjams from Rainthepain

Again I apologize if you are hurt by my comments . I feel that the level of disibility that your children are facing is so different to many autistic children that it should almost be called something else.The autistic spectrum is such a catch all diagnostic phrase that it defeats its own object. If a parent says my child has autism, what exactly does this mean. Something totally different to you than to me, although i assure you that my experience has been bad enough.sorry once again if my comments were innappropriate for you.

[Jimjams]

rainthepain

you didn't offend me- honestly. I was more incredulous at the idea of him learning to sign sorry- not in a nasty way- I suspect Lyra doesn't have much experience of severe ASD- I was just pointing out why that would be impossible. TBH I think behaviour really is the most important thing to deal with, and we work hard to ensure that autistic or not his behaviour is under control (not always possible) we struggle sometimes because the reason for the behaviour is often so weird. DS1 will only attack strangers in a fight or flight situation- although he has been known to go for classmates- to make them scream so he could see inside their mouths!! Now that required a very particular response- which was given and the behaviour went within a couple of weeks. But saying sorry/understanding pain etc was way beyond him (he's just beginning to understand his own- no chance for anyone else).

AFAIK Lyra doesn't have a child with an ASD so I doubt you'll have offended her!

[happymerryberries]

From what I have seen of my dd and her friends in school they are very understanding of 'differences' in children. If given the right information they seem to be far more accepting of a persons disabilities and are much for matter of fact in accepting that people are just different.

one of dds best friends had asd and the kids just too it in their stride. younger kids are better than teenagers and most adults I think. They also accept that some children need assistance in class, wear coloured glasses for dylexia etc etc.

Not perfect by a long way but better than most adults.

[stripey]

I have found some of the posts quite interesting as ds1 has just started in Reception and an autistic boy in Year 1 has been reaking havoc in the school at lunch and breaktime. Many of the parents are talking about him.

On the first day at school a new boy (hadn't attended nursery) was kicked and beaten by the autistic child and an accomplice. Since then one mother reported he has hurt at least 5 children including her dd (also in Reception), she was punched in the face and had her glasses smashed and is now so terrified of school she is crying all night. Apparently the boy is left unsupervised even though he is constantly hurting children which most parents are quite alarmed about.

The school are obviously not handling this child very well at all. Apparently he has just had a statement come through and will have support in the next few weeks but since nursery he has been in a class of approx 30 children with no support.

Parents have even been mentioning getting a petition about the boy because they are afraid for their childrens' safety. Hopefully when his support arrives things will settle down but in all honesty I do believe this particular child would be much better off in a special school. I hadn't realised that violent behaviour was a big part of autisim or is this child more of an exception?

[rainthepain]

Dear Stripey
I must reply to your post. I am very interested by the word accomplice, in that my experience of a truly autistic child is that they do not conspire because they do not interact in this way. They act very much alone and in response to a stimuli which provokes them.They are often too naive and painfully straight forward and honest and totally self-involved. Of course I do not know anything about this boy but I would think that if it is true that he is into organised bullying then he is highly unlikely to be badly affected by autism

jimjams i honestly took the comment by
Lyra to be a bit tongue in cheek and sarcastic. I didnt think she was being serious

[Jimjams]

ah you may be right rainthepain.

If handled appropriately then no children with autism are not violet. My son was described as being violent at his mainstream school because he headbutted his LSA. He headbutted his LSA because she had him pinned down and was trying to physically force him to thread beads. Even the HT said in those circumstances a child will hit out. Ask yourslef how you NT child would react to being held down with no explanation (my son is non-verbal- his language skills are very limited) and physically forced to write.

I suspect you are right stripey- the child would probably be much better off in a special school- his behaviour suggests that he is completely confused and overwhelmed in mainstream. Unfortunately his parents probably had no choice (we didn't).

Rather than take out petitions against individual children I would ask parents of NT children who are affected by the inapropriate inclusion oif children with SN into ms to write to their MP's copying letters to their LEA's. Or get involved with organisations like AIM (autism in mind- who are campaigning for specialis education). Parents of autistic children have been pushing for specilaised education (whether in special schools or provided by units/well qualified teachers in ms) for years. But our voice would be a lot louder if we were supported by NT parents. The drive for inclusion comes from the govt. Unfortunately the people devising the policy seem to have little realistic understanding of autism and what it involves and the needs of autistic children (many ms classrooms for example are simply too noisy for an autistic child).

It's the reason why more and more high functioning autistic children (therefore with zero chance of access to a special school) are being educated at home.

[Jimjams]

Hmmm actually they can be violent, but usually there is a reason - unfortunately the reason may be hard to understand. For example my son freaks if he hears a small plane. He isn't violent towards others- he beats the crap out of himself, but unless you understood anything about autism you would miss that sensorty trigger.

What I meant is the same as rainthepain- autistic children are rarely violent with intent.

[rainthepain]

in reply to the Post by merryberry We had a wonderful experience in primary school. the support was fantastic, the children sensitive and accepting. It is easier for teaching staff to monitor behaviour of children who are supervised all day. Our hell started when my son went to High School. Unhelpful and non cooperative teaching staff bullying calling him stupid not allowing support into their classrooms and also a very poor SEN DEpartment with terrible communication between SEN and subject teachers. My sons development and progress has not kept up its impetus and we are very disappointed with this. The kids of course are wicked teasing making sexual innuendo about his sexuality which hurts him he has no friends and is isolated from any social contact. He walks down the field alone and when he is not alone he is being laughed at or taunted. Yes you are right that small children are accepting, so what goes wrong with them once they get to high school. Presumably they are the same kids, though peer group pressure gets stronger!

[happymerryberries]

Fullu agree that it all goes horribly wrong (or very often does IYSWIM) in secondary school. I see it all the time in work

teenage kids en mass can be grim and anything different is the source of stigma. Awful

[happymerryberries]

They all want to conform I think and often the easiest way not to be the outsider is to make someone else the outsider. You get the same things happening regarding race, religion, size, sexuality. ASD kids get the double whammy of being taunted and not being able to understand 'normal' interaction, let alone shit like this

[Jimjams]

rainthepain Sometimes I am very grateful that my son is severely autistic and we don't have to go through that (or at least he doesn't -as he doesn;t haev the understanding- I do know one of his school mates has had bricks thrown at him by teenagers).

Is he too HF for special school rainthepain? I can't tell you the difference to our family since ds1 moved across. ds1's school is the best thing to have happened to us ever (his school is SLD/PMLD so was easy to access- I know its different at the other end of the spectrum even if something is available)