HELP: 4 month old stops breathing

[clemsterdarcy]

my dd scares me

she has had 4 episodes of crying and then suddenly seemimg winded and not being able to catch her breath

first time i thought she was choking on something and hit her back etc ... she wasnt, second and third time was on waking after a nap ... i was right in front of her and comforting her so not frustration at being left

each time she is noy breathing, swallowing and lookng at me with scared eyes to help

so far, hitting her back, blowing in her face has worked but i am terrified one day i wont be able to do anything or get to her in time

i honestly get scared she is going to die

we are both really shaken afterwards although she recovers and is smiley again far sooner thsn me

i've heard thst toddlers do hold their breath in temper but surely not an 18 week old

i am going to make a doc appt ... any advice in the meantime?

thsnks

[soph28]

there is a condition where children breath hold- i can't remember what it's called. Hang on- I'll be back.

[belgo]

This must be very worrying for you. You're doing the right thing taking him to the GP. He may refer him to hospital for tests.

What about a special baby monitor that monitors his breathing?

My dd had stopping breathing episodes between the ages of 13 and 24 months, along with loss of conciousness and a fit, entirely reflex, nothing to do with conscious breath holding. this is called reflex anoxic seizure. She is physcally very healthy, and I think has grown out of then now.

[soph28]

I found this about it. I know she is only 4 months but if it is involuntary I'm sure it could occur that early.

Definition

A breath holding spell is an involuntary holding of the breath accompanied by loss of consciousness in response to a confrontational situation.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Breath holding is seen in some normal children approximately 8 months to 2 years of age. It appears to be a reflexive response to fear, a confrontational situation, a traumatic event (for example: pain), or to being startled.

The child may make a short gasp and then exhale and cease breathing. Then the child rapidly becomes bluish (cyanotic) and may have several jerky movements resembling a small seizure.

The event is terminated by a momentary period of unconsciousness, at which time normal breathing resumes. The color improves with the first breath and the event is over. This behavior may be repeated several times per day or seen only on rare occasions.

Breath holding can be a frightening event for parents who may perceive it as a seizure or even cardiac arrest. Breath holding can be mistaken for a seizure, and seizures can be mistaken for breath holding.

A physician evaluation to determine that the behavior is actually breath holding is appropriate. Breath holding may also be a symptom of a rare genetic disorder, Riley-Day syndrome.

After recognizing the event as breath holding, the parent can simply await the event's natural conclusion. No undue attention should be given to the child -- such attention might encourage a repetition of the behavior with future events.

[clemsterdarcy]

thanks really appreciate any help

she did iy coupe of times in a row today in boots of all places

i was really ahaky after and still on edge now

she doesnt look like shes holding her breath tho ... more like when you wind yourself and struggle to catch you breath or when something 'goes down the wrong hole' ... she frightens herself in the middle of it so not sure it is deliberate

[Plibble]

Do you think that it might be a little bit of posset or spit going down the wrong way?
A similar thing happened to my DD a couple of times - she would be lying on the floor on her back and suddenly would go red in the face but make no noise and her whole body would tense. I would pick her up and smack her on her back and afterwards she would make kind of gulping noises until she recovered - a couple of minutes or so. Does that sound familiar? It really made me panic.
If it is the same, my DD kind of grew out of it. As she got older, she started to spit up less and to turn over and so she could clear her own airway. She learned to flip herself over at about 5.5. months.
I hope the Dr can give you some reassurance. Perhaps you should also take a first aid course - it might make you feel more confident that you can help her if need be.

[clemsterdarcy]

plibble thats what she looks like but there is nothing in her throat

on th e cofrontrational thing -- 3 of the 4 times she was just taking a nap at home and on usual crying when waking i was with her within seconds ... today she was in her buggy then a little cry when woke and it happened

she is a really happy confident thing ... full of smilesa, chatter etc so not naturally anxious

i am sure its something t do with waking from naps

[clemsterdarcy]

SO cross.

Saw GP today -- not my usual one because I got appointment on the day. GP was pretty young and spent most of the appt looking things up on the internet ... which as a Medical Writer (and reg seeker of Mumsnet advice!) wasn't abny more than I had already done myself.

No diagnosis, valuable advice or prognosis.

Got told:

"Probably incidents of breath holding even tho a little younger than the norm to do this"

"Probably grow out of it by the age of 4"

"Why don't you monitor her and come back in 2 weeks when you'll have a more definite pattern of triggers".

I explained that that was what I had done for 2 weeks and that the trigger seems to be distress waking from afternoon nap and that I thought it was probably behavioural but really just wanted advice on how to safely stop it getting worse or mid-episode to stop her getting unconscious.

Nothing advised.

But was told if she does trip into unconsciousness I should take her to hospital.

Good. Sorted then,

Why do these people get 100k per year ...

[clemsterdarcy]

Does anyone have any advice on how to stop DD holding her breath once she goes off on one ...

My mum has suggested blowing in her face?

Any help appreciated. Ta

[fortyplus]

I have seen quite a few babies do this and it looks really scary...

...but they're all teenagers now!

[fortyplus]

xp! - I used to blow on ds1's face if he started turning blue. Always worked for me, but I can understand why you're so worried.

[thelittleElf]

I would make another drs appointment, and say you want to see your normal gp! I'm sure it's nothing to worry about, but you do need some techniques to bring her out of it. As others have said, blowing on her face/mouth area (not in her mouth if you can help it) should make her take a breath. Hope you can get some proper answers soon x

[Cashncarry]

Hi Clemsterdarcy - I have a 2 yr old DD who has been a breath-holder for some time. There are lots of tips for trying to get them to "catch a breath" - blowing on the face, stroking the cheek, picking them up and gently shushing them while patting them on the back.

For my DD they were triggered early on by kind of angry crying - she'd work herself into a temper and then breath-hold and go blue. Later at around 15 mths, it became part of her tantrums and once she actually passed out and scared the crp out of me! I called my HV who gave me loads of good advice and reassured me.

However, it does sound like your DD's breath-holding episodes are slightly different - they happen when she's sleeping (so not crying presumably) and don't seem to be anything to do with her emotions so to speak.

Do you think you might benefit from speaking to your HV or getting further medical advice generally. TBH your doctor sounds like an ase and in your shoes, I'd be very tempted to get a second opinion...

[clemsterdarcy]

Thanks ladies ... appreciate your rapid response ...

all the medical sites confirm that breath holding is scary but not serious ...

and it is precipitated by her crying ... after her afternoon nap ... I guess it's just that she feels a little more grumpy in the afternoon I spose!

And so far, the 4 times she has done this it has only been when with me

So I'm calming a little

My mum says I used to do it and I just read that in 30% of cases it is hereditary.

I will go back to my usual GP ...

[butterflymum]

Also have a look at Reflex Anoxic Seizures (RAS)on the STARS website .

Does your daughter have anything giving her pain when lying down eg Reflux (similar looking word to the Reflex above, but different)? If she does, this type of pain (amongst many other things) could be a trigger for something like RAS.

There are some old threads on Reflex Anoxic Seizure on Mumsnet, you should be able to read them via the search facility.

[clemsterdarcy]

I have noticed that on at least one of the days she has had these 'attacks' she has been quite sicky ... ie throwing up a little more than usual.

There could be a link with reflux ... I do think she sics up more than posetting.

With the original episode I actually thought she had swallowed vomit while crying.

I am going to book another appointment and discuss with my usual GP. She is actually a bit intimidating but I think I;d rather get all these things checked and dismissed than leave the office with lingering possibilities ...

[clemsterdarcy]

Thanks butterfly Mum ... that info was really helpful.

I pushed the GP and got a referral to a Paediatrician -- appointment tomorrow. Will attend fully informed so hope we get to the bottom of this.

Thanks so much everyone.

[butterflymum]

Do post and let us know what comes of the appointment.


butterfly

[Heartmum2Jamie]

My best friends ds did this at a young age too. I always thought it couldn't be as bad as my friend was telling me until I witnessed one of the episodes for myself, it was really scarey. It turned out that he had a really bad case of silent reflux, where the stomach contents come up into the throat (stopping them breathing), but then it is swallowed, so they don't really vomit alot.

Good luck with the paed, I hope that you get some answers.

[BandofMothers]

How scary for you. My dd1 had awful reflux for the first 3 months. Although it wasn't the same thing it was truly scary. She would suddenly gag and not be able to catch her breath, but she did it so quietly I was petrified she'd suffocate at night.
Please don't let any drs or hv's intimidate you, you have every right to be worried. Try to look at it this way. Who cares if she/he thinks you're a neurotic hypochondriac. Screw them, at least your baby will be ok.
Fingers crossed

[LEMONADEGIRL]

Just wanted to say that i have had a similiar problem with my ds of 15 weeks. The first time it happened he had been crying and then went rigid seemed not to be breathing and his eyes sort of glazed, I was really terrified! I grabbed him and ran across the street to my neighbours thinking he was choking. It has happened three times since and now I just pat him on the back, which makes him cough, he has started teething and drools alot, I do think he may be choking on the drool somewhat. I mentioned it to my hv yesterday -advice given was to prop him up more - very reassuring so was glad to read this thread.

[dilbertina]

Hi, don't know if this will help but when I took my baby to "swimming" classes we were taught to hold baby upright and lift one of their arms up high above their head if they didn't seem to breathe again after being underwater as this extends the lungs and they reflexively take a breathe...

[Rebi]

Poor you and dd. It bring me back to when my dd was about 3 weeks old and the same thing happened twice within a couple of hours. I brought her straight up to casualty and she was kept in over night and they diagnosed reflux. They then gave her special formula and I kept her slightly elevated (sp?) at night.

I don't think she would have been diagnosed (in fact I am 99.9% certain) if I had gone to my gp. Her only other symptom was she got very wet down her front while feeding - a lot of milk came straight back up. She did do the projectile vomit a bit too.

I'm not sure if this helps at all but your description reminded me so much of my dd - it still scares me to remember it! Good luck and don't let them fob you off. Unfortunately when you become a mother you often have to nag and pester before professionals listen to you.

[clemsterdarcy]

Also (and not wanting to offend anyyne having taken a personal hammering on a different thread for being too overprotective about this recently) ... do you think being around people who smoke may have an impact.

Neither me nor my husband smoke. But my Mum does (allbeit doen't see my LO v often) and although my MIL says she has stopped I definitely smell ciggy smoke on her (and mints when she arrives are a bit of a giveaway!) ... she is 'Nanny' to LO 3 days a week ...

prob being paranoid cos of my obsessive distaste on that front!

[BandofMothers]

Don't think smoking would cause/increase risk of reflux but since it might also be a breathing related prob you might want to have a subtle word with your MIL. 3 x a week is a lot. Ciggie smoke is never good when they're that little anyway. I hate it too. My dh smokes at the door but you can still smell it and it lets the cold in! Dd1 calls them "stinky-smellies" and tells him to throw them away.
I propped everything when dd1 was having reflux trouble. I had a towel under the mattress of moses basket and couple of sturdy books under the frame of it. A couple of times when it was bad I even let her sleep in her car seat, which I sat in the moses.