Soon-to-be school contacting DS nursery to discuss his 'problem' behaviour without DH and I knowing

[Madcat22]

DS (4 next month) starts school in September, a CofE school. His nursery informed me this evening when I picked him up that his school phoned them today to ask if his new form teacher could meet with relevant people at nursery to discuss him because they have concerns about his behaviour at church. Apparently they don't want to talk about any of the other children going to the school - just my DS because they think his behaviour is a problem. I don't have a problem with them being concerned about his behaviour in church because it is pretty shocking (something we are trying to address). He is a 'spirited' child at the best of times but at church he is much much more challenging than usual because he is bored and doesn't like to sit in the pew quietly. He does need to learn how to sit quietly even when not interested but it's a work in progress - he's only 3. He tends to run off a lot and have tantrums during the service. I also don't have a problem with school talking to nursery because this is a good way of them understanding him better (nursery say many schools do this as a matter of course although DS school aren't doing this- just with mine). The issue I am really struggling with is that the school did all this without even raising it with DH and I. I would have been more than happy to sit down and talk this through sensibly with them - as I say, I think his behaviour in church is pretty unruly too. Am I being unreasonable? Nursery agree with me that the school should have at least talked to us first and that DS does not present with problem behaviour at nursery (he doesn't always have his listening ears in and can sometimes wander off if bored but is in general such a lovely caring child - he's never really been a biter/hitter etc). I feel a little bit like we as his parents don't matter at all in such an important issue and am pretty p*d off that no one has ever even raised these concerns with us first. Is this the way it is when they go to school? Can feel a million apron strings being cut as we speak.

[RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock]

YAB abit U. It sounds to me like the new nursery are just preparing themselves how best to care for each child based on the information they have. And to check whether any child would change the amount of staff they need in place. This isn't a bad thing. Do they come and visit you at home before he starts? This may be when they will talk to you about it.

[RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock]

*apologies for the YAB abit U
I was just reading AIBU and was in the zone

[Muskey]

I hope I am not being insensitive but I thought it was normal practice for the reception school teacher to visit a dc in nursery before they start school. I know my dd teacher did. No one advised me that this was going to happen. Could it be that this what happened and the nursery have over egged the pudding?

However if this as you say then they really should be talking to you about it

[Mixedupmind]

I think that it's ridiculous.
His behaviour in church may have absolutely no indication of his behaviour in school, my children react very differently to all different environments so I'm really struggling to see the relevance.
He is going into reception very early though as one of the youngest, is he ready for it?
I'd hate for his behaviour to be challenged so much when it could just possibly be he is too young for that kind of environment :(

[annebullin]

So school have contacted the nursery to discuss his behaviour solely because somebody has observed him kicking off in church? Is that right?

[capsium]

Tbh mine would have been like this at 3. Is there children's church activities that would suit him better? How long is the service, assemblies at school are only often about 20 mins and geared towards children.

This said, you should be party to any information being put on record for your child. So I would ask about this.

[Heyho111]

They should have spoken to you about their concerns. It seems obvious that a 3 year old is too young to sit for that length of time. Usually churches have a kids section where they play during a service. I would have a chat with the school.

[Frontier]

Presumably the church and the school have strong links, it's not just that "someone" has seen his behaviour in church. Also, presumably, most of the children go to church so this child's behaviour is out of the ordinary?

It's good that they have contacted nursery, it means they want to get any issues sorted. They will talk to you if and when it's necessary. If the nursery report that they have no concerns then there's no need to talk to you.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

My ds would have been a total nightmare sitting through a church service age 3 too. I thought that's why churches have Sunday School/crèches.

[Madcat22]

Muskey, I know this can be normal practice which is great but as said above, they aren't doing this as a routine thing because they don't want to talk about any of the other children. It is just my DS because someone has observed his behaviour in church. We do have Sunday school which he is fine with and a more informal family service in the parish centre which he is okayish with, but once a month we all have to do the whole service in the main church. As a high church, it's quite a grown up environment. His behaviour at this service is the concern. The head teacher and a couple of teachers go to this.
As I say, no problem with any of it apart from not involving/ talking to us about it.

[lougle]

What strategies do you have to manage his behaviour at the services? DD1 has SN, she's 8, and I take her out of the service if she isn't coping. I think if he's not coping with the formality of the service it's a bit unfair on everyone (him included) to allow him to be unruly.

Do you take colouring books/ipad/quiet toys with you?

I don't think the school are unreasonable -they aren't yet responsible for your DS so their relationship is with the nursery. They may have been trying to establish whether there is cause to speak to you, based on what they've seen.

[noblegiraffe]

Maybe they didn't think to invite you to the meeting because they think you are part of the problem - I.e. not dealing with the poor behaviour appropriately - and they want to discuss you as well?

Or maybe they'll be meeting with you before he starts school anyway and will be bringing it up then?

[wanttosinglikemarycoughlan]

This is v unreasonable
No school/nursery should be sharing information without your consent and you could have attend any meeting

[Pantone363]

Most adults are bored in church. Unless Peppa Pig is taking the pulpit of course he's bloody bored.

Let them have the meeting. He's 3 FGS!

[headoverheels]

I can understand you are feeling upset about your DS being singled out like this, but I don't think they are being unreasonable. Teachers like to gather information about children in advance so they are prepared for any particular issues (eg undiagnosed SEN) - they were probably trying to save your feelings by contacting the nursery instead of you (although this failed as you found out anyway!).

I honestly don't see this as a big issue.

[TheFirstOfHerName]

When children move up from infant school to junior school, any concerns about them are communicated without informing the parents. It's part of normal handover and in the child's best interests. I would see this as being similar.

Do you have older children at school, or is this your first experience with being a parent of a school-aged child? I have had 30 child-years of being a parent of school-aged children (10+8+6+6) and my advice would be to pace yourself with the issues you choose to get up in arms about.

[insancerre]

Schools will seek the professional opinion of those involved with children before they start school to get am unbiased viewpoint
This is normal
And to the poster who said nurseries can't share this info yes they can. With a parents permission. Which is normally on the enrolment form or contract

[TheVioletHour]

Op i can see why you are uncomfortable about this crossover between family life and school life, I know I would be. I suspect a lot of schools would do this but be less honest! But I think given you are in this for the long haul, either change school or try and be positive about working with school to support your lad

[Madcat22]

Thanks all. Trying to be positive about it. We love the school so no plans to cause any problems there, just really worried about DS being labelled before he even begins. He is feisty but not a problem in most other contexts - he just doesn't like church!! No SEN or anything (I'm a psychologist so fairly comfortable this is ok). iPad works sometimes but he has never been into colouring etc (too sedentary, not enough noise involved, nothing to run at etc - he's SUCH a boy!!). DH and I really try to manage his behaviour whilst also keeping DD (7 months) on an even keel but we are going to have to up our game. It's our responsibility to manage his behaviour. We do the whole rewards/sanctions bit, distracting, taking him out, giving him a telling off etc but not very effective so far.... I don't think we've been doing a very good job TBH despite best efforts. Feeling a bit like shit parents and DH really distraught we've let him down and stigmatised him as a problem child already.

[lougle]

Why don't you take it in turns to go to church for 6 months or so until he can cope? Or agree with him that you will all go for worship but then you'll leave?

[RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock]

I don't think he will be labelled as a problem child if it is only at this church service he behaves in this way. Sounds like very normal 3 yo behaviour to me. They are just doing their job, look at it that way. You just happen to know about it.

[3littlefrogs]

He is 3.
Does anybody seriously expect a 3 year old to sit quietly through a long high church service?
They are all bonkers.
Are you sure you want him to go to this school?

[longjane]

Right if there is no SEN
The best thing you can do before church is exercise .
Make him run play jump walk for aleast a hour .
And if he can do things like sitting down things like colouring , he is going to struggle at school .
So up his exercise and see how he does.

[SuburbanRhonda]

Why does he have to go to church at all, OP?

Is it one of those churches where people talk about you if you don't go? And if so, would you really want that for the next seven years?

I hated church. We went every week from toddlers. The service was over an hour (Roman Catholic, 1960s) and we weren't allowed to have breakfast before we went. I was so jealous of my sister who used to faint regularly from hunger and got taken out

[DeWee]

Ds was like that for church family services at 3yo, and either I took him for a short time until he started getting wriggly then went out the back, or I didn't go.
It's much harder (ime) to say to a child "right last week you were little and can run around, this week you're big and have to sit quietly" than a place always being the place you have to sit still when they're old enough.

It took ds until start of year 1 (or just 5yo) to really realise that he had to stay sitting still in certain cicumstances like church. We let him choose a couple of quiet toys, and encourage him to engage in any bits he can do. Although perhaps his answer to "Why is it called Good Friday?" wasn't the textbook one ("Because there's no school!") I think it may be the one people remember.

From my point of view I would be thrilled they are taking such a personal interest in him. They're not getting together to gossip what a terrible child and dreadful parents. They're looking at strategies to help him.
This will mean that if he doesn't sit well they are less likely to tell him off, they will go into things to help him straight away, which means he is less likely to be catagorised as a "naughty" child by teachers and pupils. It also means that if he manages to sit basically still with some wriggling they'll praise him to the stars.

And my "little griggler ds? He's just had his leaver's concert in year 2. This is the first time I've watched him sitting with his peers and haven't been conscious how much he wriggles even when sitting still compared to most of his peers. He was as still as any of them-which was a good thing as he was right in the centre of the front row!