"Explosive children" - anyone else got one ?

[BlueBeetle]

Hi everyone, Under my old name (Norah) I posted loads a few weeks/months back about my dd's apalling strops and tantrums ! She is almost 6 and has almost been dropped off at the children's home many times this holiday !

Anyway - I have been giving Amazon fantastic business buying parenting books this summer - and finally started reading one last night that seems to make sense ! It's called "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene ! Basically he reckons that kids who act like this don't really know why they do it - but for some reason they can't process information quite correctly yet - almost like a developmental delay, and because they don't know how to handle situations, typically transitions from one situation to another - they feel extremely frustrated and so low up ! From what I've read so far it sums my dd up perfectly !

Am now moving on to the solution side of it - which seems to be the exact opposite of what we have been doing (which absolutely doesn't work on her) - 1-2-3 Magic and time outs, and is based more on helping her process the info and make the transitions !!

By transitions he means for example - she's watching TV and I call her for dinner - she doesn't want to make the transition - I insist, and she goes ballistic. Similarly for us - she is playing in the morning - I am asking her to get dressed - she blows up !!

Just wondered if anyone else has any experience of his methods/theories - or if you have an explosive child and how you handle them ?

[magnolia1]

Sounds like one of my twins, Am going to get the book you have coz it sounds great

[kid]

Sounds like my 4 yo DS, what are the solutions they suggest you try in the book.
I've tried counting to 3 (which sometimes works) sending him to the steps or his room which he refuses to do unless I move towards him and then he runs up the stairs.

I did take DS to a child psychologist as I couldn't take it anymroe with him. She told me he was a perfectly normal little boy (no behaviour issues!)

[pinkpyjamas]

Hi BlueBeetle, my DS2 was an "explosive child" for several years, and we found the Ross Greene book very useful. We also found out that he had a dairy and wheat allergy, which affected his behaviour and his processing abilities. Whenever we could predict an outburst (which we couldn't always!) we would encourage him to "think of a plan" ie: he would panic if we had been going to the park, but changed plans because it was pouring with rain. Encouraging him to discuss other options really helped. It didn't mean he got what he wanted all the time, but it did mean that he was encouraged to express his feelings, and he gradually became able to calm himself down. Now he's 8 and has been on his DF / GF diet for about three years. He is calmer than his older brother (10) - and is so organised now! He still uses the "think of a plan" idea, but we no longer get the explosions, just the usual grumps and strops of an average 8 year old. HTH!

[Jimjams2]

Yep ds3 is just like this. Had noticed he was terrible at tranistions and have started to introduce countdowns with him (he's only 19 months and not quite getting it- but with a severely autistic brother countdowns get used a lot in this house anyway). He calms down as quickly as he fires up though.

Countdowns work really well with ds1 (not explosive but severely autistic) and I would expect them to work with any child who can't transition well- which is why I've intorduced them early with ds3. They're used in autism because of the difficulties with transitions.

Lots of warning should be good as well. And listing "first x then y".

[Freckle]

OK, so supposing she's watching tv, you call her for dinner and she doesn't want to make the transition. What do you do to get her to do what you want? It's all very well understanding why she behaves the way she does, but it's not much use unless they tell you how to get round it.

I have a 10 yo who has been like that since he was 5 or 6. I understand that a lot of the time his explosions are because he is frustrated, but unfortunately imo it's a question of getting him to understand that a lot of things in this life are frustrating, but it's not acceptable to blow up every time.

[Jimjams2]

BTW you can buy large egg timers for things like 30seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes and they can work well in ending activities and transitions as well.

[Jimjams2]

Freckle - you would just say Ok dinner in 5 minutes, dinner in 4 minutes-30 seconds or whack out an egg timer.

Ds1 doesn't need that much warning, so if we want him to finsih something we just say ok " ok countdown then finished, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 ,5 ,4 ,3 ,2 1, finished" works a dream. I would imagine an NT child immersed in a programme might need more warning.

[SleepyJess]

Just bought this book for my friend who has a VERY explosive 3 year old! Thanks BB...

[Sunnysideup]

how interesting bluebeetle...my ds is four and has been a child who on occasions will have the most massive tantrums, almost like a switch flicking his mood - as you say, 'blowing up'! However he doesn't do this every day by any means but it's horrible when it happens, he can't seem to be calmed...and again it is usually sparked by a transition from a fun activity to a less fun one, eg getting out of the pool and getting dressed!! No matter what strategies I use to prepare him or make him feel as if it's his decision, sometimes there's no stopping him.

However I wonder if this describes all children at some time - is your DD like this every day?

I have to say when DS does this I feel sorry for him as he's so beside himself...I tell him how sorry I am that he feels so bad and bascially he gets it out of his system but I have learnt not to talk much to him as any input from me 'fans the flames'...

my ds seems to have no idea how angry he has been after the event; about one hour after his last blow-up, he asked my DH to 'tell me a bad story"! He loves tales of woe of when we've hurt ourselves or whatever!! My DH described to him what had happened just an hour earlier with DS getting so angry and hitting DH, and DS couldn't recognise that it was HIM who had done this - I think it's the definition of being 'beside yourself'!!!

Am interested to hear any other people's experiences!

[Freckle]

Well, we've tried that. It works when it suits him, e.g. his programme is about to finish anyway, but not when it doesn't. E.g. if he is playing a PS2 game and he is called, he won't want to stop until he has completed a particular level. Well, that can take another 15-20 minutes, which is not acceptable, so we still get the explosion when we insist he leave it - or just go in and turn it off!

I have to say that the explosions, although they do still occur, are becoming less frequent, so maybe it's just a question of maturity - or a realisation of the inevitable .

[Jimjams2]

Maybe an egg timer? I've found that higher functioning children need egg timers more than children like ds1- so would assume that's closer to the NT example.

[Freckle]

Educating myself in the way these games work has helped too. There are certain points in a game where you can save the game to return to later. So now I will ask when the next "save" moment is likely to be and then nip in with an instruction to do that at the opportune time. I often tell them to get to the next level and then stop (as the reluctance to stop is the same for all 3 boys), which they are more likely to do. I can understand how they get frustrated at having to ditch a game when they've worked hard to get that far, but not far enough to save.

Oh and another point is that DS2 is much less likely to explode if he has been physically active. I loathe the days when he can't get out to run around or ride his bike, etc., as I know that we are almost guaranteed an explosion later. Another point to consider.

[Jimjams2]

ds2 (very laid back, very NT child who I never use countdowns with) can sometimes go ballistic if I ask him to leave a cbeebies game (he's only 4!) that he's into so I think there's something about computer games! Mind you I remember getting lividly angry and frustrated with my game boy aged 22

[Jimjams2]

thinking about it I tend to pop my head round the door with him and say dinner in 5 minutes so when you've finsihed that game stop (obviuosly easier with cbeebies games that last 2 mins max!)

[sleepysooz]

I'm very interested in this book Bluebeetle, I have an explosive 10 yo ds who has always been like this, in fact I see similarities in my ds2 who is a twin nearly 3yo, but luckily dd to twin is as placid as her father!

I must say though my ds1 is dyslexic and dysphraxic I have put his behaviour down to copeing strategies, but they are trying arn't they, if you say things 3 times you've said them 300 times, and the strops just to get to school in the morning sounds like world war 3!

I will keep posted to this thread for peoples ideas and stories!

Oh and Hia Jimjams, I am new to MN and you were one of the first people I posted to, I was worried about you, are you ok!

[sleepysooz]

Egg timer sounds a good idea! although my eldest wouldn't respond as he can't do anything under pressure, like timed maths tests at school!

[BlueBeetle]

OOOH - Lots of other explosive children - and fab to hear that the book's approach works for some of them !

Still trying to read the book and get my head round the concept really as I think by nature I am rather strict and disciplinarian - but it's just not working with dd - just makes her angrier !

Am also big believer in the approach that "life's not fair - get over it" - BUT - just not working and life getting pretty unbearable - so am now up for the softer approach if it will work !

Should be reading book now - but am drinking gin on 13th wedding anniversary instead !

Will be back to this thread very soon !

[roisin]

Hi! Amazing coincidence. I bought this book when ds1 was a very explosive nearly-6 yr-old, I think.

I was having a de-clutter yesterday and this book has made it to the pile of "the charity shop can have it as I no longer need it" ...
Yippee
He is 9 now, and certainly no longer explosive, and usually has his temper well in check, and is very predictable. It's amazing to see the progress he's made in the past few years.

Anyway the book is on my stairs atm; it will shortly be heading to a charity shop. But if someone would like a copy (for postage costs only) give me a shout quick, and CAT me, and it's yours!

[sleepysooz]

roisin, I'd love to read the book if it is going spare, I'm at my wicks end, will try anything if it works. My DS1 10yo presently goes to a brain gym, I am very sceptical though, its hard just making him do the exercises, so its a knock on effect of explosive behaviour and trying to do exercies, they don't go together very well!

How do I go about sending you my address, do I leave you my e-mail address on this thread?

thanks
sooz

[roisin]

Sleepysooz, email me: klgoddard at tiscali dot co dot uk

[BlueBeetle]

Just back with a quick update - had a much calmer morning today - no tantrum about getting dressed - mainly because I was more tolerant I think !!

Read quite a bit of the book last night - stayed up very much too late to do so - but it is really interesting !!

Basic theory is this - you wouldn't shout at a blind person because they couldn't see, shouting at them wouldn't make them see - so what's the point ? My explosive child cannot, for whatever reason, express herself very well when upset - so shouting at her would not help her to express herself - it would just make the situation worse !

Then you put "behaviours" into baskets - Basket A is the things you absolutely have to insist on your way about due to safety predominantly - so there can be no discussion about holding my hand to cross the road for example. But - then into basket B you put behaviours that you would like to improve together, and Basket C has the things that you can let go for the time being - like swearing, foot stamping etc as they are symptons rather than the actual problem.

This is very like something I read ages back about choosing your battles I think !

Anyway - when something happens you have to think which basket it falls into - and then address it appropriately !

This morning dd started to get upset because she wanted to wear her pink dress and it wasn't in her wardrobe - normally I would have told her to wear something else - but that would have put it into Basket A, which is clearly isn't - so it must be a basket B behaviour - so today I suggested other outfits, saw she was genuinely bothered about the pink dress - so I ironed it for her - and the tantrum was averted ! I am a tiny bit proud of myself as this is absolutely not my natural stance - BUT - it avoided a tantrum and took all of 3 minutes ! My mother would say that she got her own way !

Dh thinks this is too softy softly - but has agreed to try it out !

Feels weird - but have a feeling this may just work with dd !

[sleepysooz]

Well done bluebeetle! DH must agree on parenting though!

My dh doesn't agree with anything I say, he thinks I'm the strict one! its a nightmare.

Supernanny says 'its one of the main problems in parenting' we must all agree, kid's are so clever to pick up on parents and play each one up! even worse, a child that does not respect a parent that passes responsibility onto the other parent instead of tackling problem themselves! my DH says wait till ya mother gets in, I HATE THAT! I tell him thats why my DS1 doesn't respect him, and he thinks its all mumbojumbo! AAAAAAAH

Only then I can read the book and have perfect children? well nearly

Its alright I'll get down off my soapbox now, DH just gets on my nerves so much on this subject.

[sleepysooz]

I apologise after that outburst, I think we need a book how to tackle EXPLOSIVE PARENTS

[QueenEagle]

Yes ds1 was like that but I didn't know I could read a book and get help about it - he never seemed to fit any category! I just rode it out and he is much better now. He's 12 btw.

ds3 is very much like this and I have learnt that the transition thing does work - if we are talking about the smae thing that is! I always say for instance that dinner will be ready soon so you will have to stop doing that and come to the table. I say this about 3 times and usuallly now by the 3rd time osa saying it he says ok. Then i go and get him and say he can carry on with whatever it was fater dinner.

He doesn't always like it and we always get some level of protest but he doesn't explode and kick everything in sight now as he used to. dh finds it much ahrder to do this than me though and he consequently gets a lot of confrontational episodes when i feel he could have forewarned him more rather than just yank him away from whatever he was doing.

[BlueBeetle]

Oh Bugger - I spoke too soon !!!

Had major tantrum this morning - she wanted the pink dress again and it was in the wash covered in ketchup ! her solution was that I wash it NOW !! This is 10 mins after we are supposed to have left for work GRRRRRRR !!

Friad I lost it and put her on naughty step - then when she didn't calm down I smacked her ! Then I made her put a blue dress on and she whined all the way to work/playscheme !

I am so crap !! BUT - it's the time of the month, I feel like poo and am mega stressed at work - so she really ought to be a bit nicer to me too !!