Trouble at bedtime

[Monsy]

I am at my wits end and need some advice. I can't get my nearly 3 year old and 5 year old to bed before 9/9.30 every night and it is always a struggle with tears. In the winter, it wasn't so bad and they were usually down by 8pm, but now its hot (we live in Spain) and lighter in the evening so I start the bedtime routine at 8 (upstairs to bath, then books in bed, a quiet chat and then lights out) but it then takes an hour or more before they are both asleep and I usually end up getting cross and they cry. By the time they are finally asleep I am exhausted and feeling guilty about the stress I must be causing them. They are both at school/nursery so need to be up by 7.30 so I have to drag them out of bed in the morning as they are so tired. My husband feels we should put them to bed at 9.30 and avoid the struggle but I feel that is too late for them.

I know deep down that it is probably my fault as they pick up on the fact that I am tired in the evening after a day of work and running the house and looking after 2 small children, but I am losing my confidence as a mum and getting very down about this. They are wonderful children but have so much energy and are so spirited and I need to find a way to get my control back.

Do I just give in and let them stay up, or do I persevere and continue to be strict about bedtimes...?

[Parietal]

I'd start bedtime routine at 7pm - if they are overtired they will be more grumpy.

[sittinginthesun]

Do they nap in the day at school/nursery? I think at that age they should be sleeping 11-12 hours in 24 hours, and so the ideal would be sleep between 7-8pm and wake at 7am.

I know that my Spanish cousins laugh at the thought of this, however. Their children go to bed at 10pm, wake at 7am, but then nap after lunch.

What are their classmates routines like?

[Monsy]

Thanks, they have no naps in the day. My daughter who is still at nursery is put down for a nap at the nursery between 2 and 4 but she never sleeps (all the other children do, she just plays quietly and refuses). Same for my son who is 5, he dropped his daytime nap at 2 years although we kept trying to encourage it. However, they do have a very quiet afternoon and don't really get energetic again until 5ish. My son's spanish classmates also don't nap and go to bed at 10pm. The english and other northern european mums all put their children down at 8 and have no trouble with that which is why I am struggling with this.

[sittinginthesun]

In that case, I would also start bedtime earlier. Having seen both sides of it, I think going to sleep at 10pm, but not napping, just makes them ratty.

If you start at 7pm, aiming to get them quiet by 8pm, with the rule that they have to sit quietly in bed if they don't sleep, maybe?

[Startail]

in Spain do as the Spanish do, surely to do otherwise is madness.

heat and, especially bright sunshine reprogramme the body clock.

My DDs always stay up late on holiday or if it's hot in the UK.

Do what the locals do and don't tell the other expat mum's if they look down their noses at you.

[Monsy]

Thanks for the advice its been really useful, especially to take longer over the bedtime routine and realising we are in spain, not england. Before, I would take them upstairs at 8 and try to do lights out at 8.30 and it turned into a battle with everyone exhausted by 9/9.30. The last two nights, i have taken them up at 8 and taken ages over the bath and books. The first night, both quiet and dropping off at 9pm, and tonight, both were asleep by 8.45 - no struggles, no getting out of bed. Hopefully i can manage a little earlier each night but as long as all is calm, thats fine with me.

[Startail]

Glad you have found something that worked.

DD1 never did 7-7.30 bed. Always much happier with 8 in winter 8.30-9 on long summer evenings.

She was easy to get to bed if you went with her time table and impossible if you pushed her earlier. She just bounced up and got over tired and silly.

[charlieallred]

Wow, we have a similar problem with one of our 2 year old twins. One goes to sleep no problem. We have a routine it starts at 6 and they are in bed by 7, but the other little twin just refuses to go to sleep, screaming and sometimes making herself vomit. I feel like it must be a power struggle, but I'm not entirely sure.