2.5 year old and I am losing it with her big time

[chocolatemummy]

My daughter is totally pushing my wrong buttons at the moment, I have smacked her twice in the last couple of weeks pretty hard, enough to leave a mark anyway and I felt bloody awful. BUT, she is out of control outside the home. She has very good manners, says her please/thankyou's etc, tidies up after herself and eats as sleeps very well.But I cannot go anywhere with her. She climbs out the car seat while I am driving, has already cut her lip open because of this once. She hates shops and has total tantrums, runs off, out the door will not hold my hand or daddy's.The time out thing just doesn't seem to work. and neither does smacking her but sometimes I don't know what else to do. I am at my wits end because I work three and a half days a week and and on my days off I need to get things done but because of her behaviour I can't do anything. I am practically housebound.

[Oblomov]

Oh I understand.
Ds (2.25) is the same at the moment.
Swings from being a total darling, to not being able to take him ANYWHERE.
I have smacked him twice in the last week.
It's so hard, isn't it ?

[chocolatemummy]

yes, she can be so good and loving and I am so proud of her in many ways but I am getting to the end of my tether with her, I feel awful and totally useless as a parent sometimes

[Marne]

dd 2.4 is the same, ive smacked her a couple times in the last few weeks and she just laughed at me.

[chocolatemummy]

yeah she cries for about a minute and then just goes and does whatever I smacked her for again, its a losing battle isnt it

[ScummyMummy]

Oh poor you. this is classic at her age, I think. Time out won't work straight away but is a good strategy if you can be consistent imo. I'm not judging- we all lose it- but it also sounds like you need to try and stay a bit calmer, if possible. She's a toddler and is testing you to see where the boundaries are. She needs you to show her where the boundaries are without being too scary. Anything else stressing you atm or are you a short fuse type person? Hitting hard enough to leave a mark could be a problem- even leaving out how bad it makes you and her feel it is the definition of an illegal smack now, i think. Shops- put her in trolley? Give her a sticker on a chart for every minute she behaves? involve her in finding things you need? Do it on the internet instead? Are you doing enough stuff she likes outside the house?

[chocolatemummy]

to be honest i have worked in child protection myself for six years. I have changed in the last year to mental health but basically I know that smacking her is wrong. I guess becuase of my background I feel i shouldnt be having these problems with my child, I guess i was naieve and never really dealt with toddlers. I thought I would be strict from the beginning and everything would be fine! I am tired alot from work because I have a management position and although part time, it doesnt feel like it.But I try to do as much as possible with her, I take her to music group and toddlers group every week. I read to her and make playdough, play games etc etc. I guess i just worry too much about what others are thinking and dont get any help from family etc so very rarely get a break

[ScummyMummy]

It's v hard not getting a break. Please don't beat yourself up. Any chance of booking an extra childcare session so you can get some time to yourself or a babysitter so you can go out with dh soon? I sometimes consciously have a mega praise day when things feel like they're going pear shaped with my sons. basically i try and notice every tiny, tiny thing they do right and praise her for it. "Wow you're sitting at the table nicely." "Good grief you went down the slide! Fantastic!" Makes you feel like a banana head, esp in public but it works like a dream usually because it makes us all feel a bit more positive. Worth a try? If she steps out of line put her in time out for two mins totally calmly and without giving her more than the bare minimum of attention. Also i really enforce bedtimes (and naptimes when they were little) when things are tough so I don't feel like I'm on duty 24/7. Don't know if any of this would work for you but really hope things get better soon.

[chocolatemummy]

Thankyou, think I need to work on the time out thing. I tend to be cross with her when i put her in time out and tell her why i am doing it but maybe I should just put het there and withdraw like you do. I love her so much i could eat her but we all reach our limit sometimes don't we

anyway, where are you al from ? I am having a break now for a chat while she is upstairs watching nemo

[hasbean]

I am sympathetic to your problems 2.5 can be a hard age to deal with as they express their independance, but I am shocked that you smacked your child and worried for your child as you have done it so hard you have marked her. I thought that most people know that smacking is no way to deal with behaviour problems
As for her getting out of her child seat whilst you are driving you either have the wrong seat or it is not fitted properly, as in my experience children of this age cannot undo the seatbelt.
Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but please rember your child is only 2.5 and walk away or hit the wall if you feel that way again.

[calvemjoe]

I'm going through this with my ds too at the mo so you have my sympathies. Have found it helps if I 'lock' him in the pushchair or trolley when I need to get chores done to get them done quickley with the promise of a reward after. It's really helped and makes life so much easier hth

[chocolatemummy]

we have just spent £100 on a new car seat and its fitted properly, she just unclips the belt and gets out. believe me its not something I take lightly, she gets out of her pushchair too, infact we are on our 5th puchcahir because she keeps getting out of them so I know we have tried our best. as for the mark, it was gone after bout ten minutes it wasnt a bruise or anything but I just wanted her to realise how cross i was with her because time out wasn't working. I get people saying to me, "who is in control you or the child" it feels like she is sometimes because we just give up whatever we are doing and go home

[hasbean]

I would take the car seat back and complain that it is not properly manufactured and demand a full refund, a child of 2.5 should not be able to undo the straps.
I found ignoring mine made them realise how cross I was I know this is not always possible to do especially when out.
Do you speak to her about where you are going and tell her how she is expected to behave?. If she plays up after you have told her the boundaries then you could try leaving immediatly ( friends houses, playgroups etc.) although for the first few times her she will probalby scream blue murder and kick off once she knows you will react like this she may stop her bad behaviour when out. I always used to resort to bribary when shopping( before having kids I always tutted at other mums doing this ) the promise of a chocolate lolly at the end of shopping worked a treat. Also try to involve her in the shopping (if you don't already) asking her to find things or put things in the trolly ect.

[poppadum]

chocolate mummy,

I have a two year old who is exactly the same, and a six year old who did all this and more. It is a phase and it will pass, once they are old enough to understand the consequences. Hang in there. Smacking is generally pretty ineffective, but toddlers are maddening and I don't believe you are a useles parent if you do it occasionally when driven to the end of your tether. Not a popular view on MN, I know. Can you get your husband/partner to do some errands/shopping?

[chocolatemummy]

yeah, I muist say its not everytime we go shopping, but most and the tantrums have got worse, I have tended to giver her one of those sugar free lollies which keeps her quiet for a reasonable amount of time. Thankyou all for your support and I do feel better because it seems I am not alone going through this stage. any further advice or support is welcomed though

[poppadum]

I forgot to say involving them in the shopping really helps. Get her to put the veg, bread etc in the trolley and praise her lavishly when she gets it right. Or put the mail in the mailbox, get cash from the cash machine and so on. They need to be feel important at this age. I feel for you, it really is hard but it will get better.

[calvemjoe]

I used baby reigns to secure ds in his pushchair when he started letting himself out. And also told him in a very suppernanny fasion that 'his behaviour was not acceptable'. I refuse to be dictated to by a toddler. He does as he pleases most of the time so he needs to behave if I have jobs to do.

[sparklemagic]

Hi choc, the thing that has helped me with my DS more than anything has been not taking life too seriously; by this I mean that if it's shopping, I don't just approach it that he has to sit while I do the shopping, I use whatever role he is interested in and make it a game - eg, the trolley can be a double decker bus that he drives, I turn it round so he is facing forward and he tells me when he's putting the brakes on, etc. This sort of thing has made life much more fun for both of us as he feels involved and it's age appropriate, which lets face it, shopping isn't!!!

I just think if you appraoch most things in a playful, lighthearted way and look at the task in hand from the CHILD's point of view you'll be able to engage her interest so much more and with my DS it certainly made going out much easier. Having said that, I do shop on-line whenever I can as I figure if I don't HAVE to go somewhere I know he won't enjoy, then I don't!

It sounds to me like she and you have got into shops being a flash point - you both feel stressed as soon as you see them because of how it's gone in the past, so she runs off etc...but I think persist with trying to make it a game, and in time you will get there.

I must say I really feel for you with her being able to undo her car seat fitting. If I were you I would certainly be complaining to the manufacturers, as my DS has always been strong AND had a fixation on doing up and undoing fixings but he NEVER managed to undo his car seat, which was tough even for my fingers. Somethings wrong there I reckon.

Hope some of this helps?

[alex8]

My son sounds pretty similar to you daughter. He has been able to undo his stage 2 car since he was about 2. However tight you do the shoulder straps houdini boy gets out of them then waves his arms round like a windmill and can undo the car seat belt leaving the seat loose. Mumsnet saved my sanity on this one as I read about a product on here called snugsit. They have changed the way they make it now and someone on here said it was not so good. This is the new one
\link{http://www.hug-it.co.uk/\hugit}

This is the old one
\link{http://www.gltc.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&productID=G7946\snugsit}

If you have a stage 3 seat which I have not braved yet I have seen this product but not sure if its any good
\link{http://www.gltc.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&productID=G1102&CatID=SSIntheCar\safeclip}

As for the rest good luck will watch for suggestions!

[kid]

My ds is now 4, but reading your post brings back memories. He was exactly as your describe. But, he has grown out of it and although he still likes adventures like climbing up the school fence, running, playfighting, he is at least manageable to take out. I used to dread taking him anywhere as I knew it was just a matter of time before he 'went into one'
I did seek the help of a child psychologist, she offered some advice and assured me I was a good parent and that DS was just a typical toddler. She said I must be firm, set the boundaries and stick to them. No compromising and I should always explain to DS why he couldn't do something. At the time I didn't think it would make much difference but over the next few months, he did settle down.

[MrsWood]

Oh, I know what you mean - my dd (almost 3) has recently started playing up - so far we've had virtually no issues with her, but recently she can be impossible to please. Just an example:

"mummy I want an apple please"
(give her apple)
"I don't want an apple, I want a banana"
(eat apple myself, give her a banana)
"I don't want it, it's got yucky bit" (bit of brown - cut it out)

Or

"Mummy, lets go to playcentre"
(crap day out, great idea, let's go)
(get there)
(dd goes all shy and teary)
"I want you to go with me"
(height restrictions, I'm too big, can't go where she wants me to)
(crocodile tears, I decide to try my best to go through 2cm tunnels)
(big boy brushes against her - big tears)
"I want to go home"
(getting stuff ready, pick up shoes, bag... - starts wailing)
"I don't want to go home"

and so on... She really has her days.

But, saying that 9/10 days she's 95% pefect so gotta used to living with occassional incident I guess.

[MrsWood]

Sorry - crap day outSIDE :) Meaning rain, clouds, cold...

[chocolatemummy]

Thankyou so much !, I have found a Snugsit on ebay and orderd it so hopefully that will heklp the car situation,as for the rest of it, I watched the new series of House of Tiny Tearaways last night and felt better immediately.
the pushing the trolley round backwards sounds like a good one too, this is great and thankyou all so much for repsonding and reassuring me.

[Pruni]

Oh thank goodness it's not just me. My ds is pushing my buttons too and I have been verbally losing it and feeling awful - I have a really sharp tongue and I hate hate hate using it on him. Sorry no advice but sympathies and hope the phase passes soon.

[chocolatemummy]

and yes I have lost the ability to type

[blueteddy]

Sympathies. I know just how you feel, as my DS2 (just turned 3) is pushing all the wrong buttons with me atm too.
Shopping with him is a complete nightmare. I still put him in his buggy, as he would be all over the place if I didn't, but he sticks his feet out of the pushchair or grabs at things in shops, which normally results in him knocking things of the shelves or pulling clothes of the hangers.
He can get into a strop with you if you so much as say hello to him & constantly annoys or hurts his older brother.
I try to send him for time out on the step but he just sits there grinning at me!
It has been really waring me down lately & don't know what to do with him. I guess it is an age group thing & they will soon (hopefully) outgrow this nightmare stage!
No great advice I am afraid, but wanted to reassure you that you are not alone!