Changes in behaviour for the worse, nursery the culprit?

[Cortina]

My DD is 19 months and recently started 2 mornings a week at nursery.

She is quite advanced for her age in some respects, she can talk in basic sentences but has been pretty reserved around other kids/her peer group. Confident with adults though.

She is quite a sensitive soul. She has been more boisterous and rough since starting. After a morning at nursery she won't nap and seems a bit aggressive, she hit me with a toy which is a first.

She is losing her good manners etc. I realise I can't wrap her in cotton wool and she has to learn that the world isn't all about mummy etc BUT is this behaviour normal?

I was always concerned that none of the others in her group can talk (have sat in on a few sessions) and was worried this might frustrate her. Doesn't seem to be. She needs to learn to get along with her peers. There was a child we saw socially that pulled her hair and DD used to cry whenever we met up with her. DD seems to be low down in the pecking order with groups of children socially. Want nursery to toughen her up a bit.

Not explaining myself well here but hopefully you'll get what I mean. Grateful for any insights.

[AngelaD]

She is really young to be socialising - does she actually have to go to nursery ?
I believed all the nonsense with my first 2 about nursery being good for their social skills and it is rubbish. Three is quite early enough to start and then they make better progress and you don't have all the aggressive behaviour. I wish I could do it all again mine wouldn't leave my side until school.

[juuule]

Totally agree with AngelaD - at this age she would benefit more from the world being all about mummy or daddy and giving her a secure base to branch out from and socialise in her own time. As with AngelaD, I bought into all that stuff with my eldest, not so sure with the next, but for the rest realised what a crock all that socialise and toughen them up stuff was. None have suffered for no playgroup etc and one positively benefitted once we took her out.
If she does have to go - be very supportive of her once she comes home.

[stoppinattwo]

Im not contradicting AngelaD, but sometimes its hard to tell whether its the age theyre getting to,by sometimes showing a bit of assertiveness and independance the only way they can it can come across as aggressive.
Its a tough one to answer, my feelings are that they need to aclimatise (spelling?)to social groups, school can sometimes be a big shock, having to share and communicate with your peers in a situation where you all want the same thing and your not sure how to deal with it. This can be very frustrating. There is no easy way for them to learn, it can be very upsetting when your own child starts displaying traits that maybe you see in others and dont like, They are finding their way and you are there to guide them. I dont think there is a good age to introduce them to this, both mine were in nursery from 6 months onwards so i didnt have the benefit of a slow introduction, both of them were angels till about 18months, then they gradually started doing things, snatching maybe a sneaky push here and there, they were sorting their pecking order. Not always the right thing to do but they recieved guidance from the nursery about the right way to get along, (learning from their mistakes so to speak) Now they are finishing nursery DS is in y2 at school and they interact with others very well, starting school was a relative breeze.
As for the difference in ability, this is a very varied race but they all reach the end eventually, different children will lead at different times. Your DD may sounds v advanced and indeed maybe her chatter will help encourage others to follow on. She will develop wonderful friendships and learn to deal with those that maybe dont work out. Dont lose heart and trust your own judgement, this will tell you if you are doing the right thing, its a real dilema and one ive struggled with myself.

[AngelaD]

I'm sorry but she will not develop wonderful friendships at 19 months at best she'll learn to tolerate the noise whilst she's trying to play. At that age it's like a pacman game with little ones trying to play and other little ones getting in their way.

[stoppinattwo]

Its a matter of opinion, I wasnt contradicting you, both my children went through this, and both have good friends from their nursery days. These friendships are obviously not established, but they are developing. They look forward to seeing certain other children in nursery - I would class that as a form of friendship.
Each child is different, there is no hard and fast rule about what begins do develop at what age.

[secur]

I read a thread the otehr day where someone said that it is inmpossible for a 22 month old to share - mine does - in fact all 4 of my children have done at this age, extremeley well and this is, I beleieve as a direct result of nursery, I also read a thread where it was said that you can't discipline a 20 month old - I can discipline mine and she understands the discipline action as well as the reason for it, they all did. Again this is a result of following the nursery routines which are applied to all the children at all ages.

If I walked into nursery and found it anything like a pacman game I would walk out with my children.

As it is I usually find that my 22 month old is playing happily with others sharing toys, instigating games and chatting happily about the toys they are using and what they will do next.

I think that a child will pick up behaviour from those around it, good and bad, this is just responding to new input and is a healthy way for the child to find out what they want to be like rather than being a "mummy-clone" as long as any "bad" behaviour is dealt with appropriatly then it will pass in time just like every other stage does.

It sounds to me like you have a lovely little girl who is learning fast and taking the most out of the opportunity you have given her, all you have to do now is gently steer her around the pit-falls that come with any peer group and she will come out the other end still a lovely little girl but more well rounded and able to deal with all different people on many differnt levels and situations.

Sorry for the long post but I have to say I found some of what has been said at best one-sided.

If I had my time again I would do exactly the same, my older children are fantastic socially aware confident happy people and my younger children are going exactly the same way. (Oh yes and my eldest daughters best friend is someone from nursery who she was around from 18 months to 21/2years and didn't see again until she was 7 years old - I guess that friendship got some good roots at a very young age then?)

[Blossomhill]

Agree that 19 months is very young to go to nursery. Personally if you can re-try again when she is 2 1/2 - 3. Take your dd to playgroups where you go too.
At 19 months IMO they are still babies.

[galaxy]

dd was like yours in terms of her speech - she could easily hold a conversation before she was 18 months old but I chose not to send her to nursery (again 2 mornings a week) until she was 2 1/2. 19 months is very young and she is probably the youngest there so will pick up bad habits from older kids.

She has gone to to toddler groups with here childminder from a very young age and enjoyed that.

[juuule]

Babies of 19months old do not turn into 'mummy clones' because they don't go to nursery.
Secur - You have made a few assumptions that nursery is responsible for some areas of your children's development. Which might or might not be so. My children are also socially aware and confident and my 19yo is still great friends with someone he started school with. None of them went to an early nursery.

[secur]

sorry, I did not mean that they did , it was a turn of phrase.

Can you explain why you know better than me whether I have made assumptions about my childrens development? My comments are based on having known my children and everything that has happened to them all of their life

[galaxy]

I have assumed it's not a day care nursery (as in she's in nursery because you are at work) but a nursery school environment? Obviously, 19 months is not too young for traditional day-care.

[secur]

oh, yes my comment relating to friends was a respomse to this

"I'm sorry but she will not develop wonderful friendships at 19 months at best she'll learn to tolerate the noise whilst she's trying to play. At that age it's like a pacman game with little ones trying to play and other little ones getting in their way. "

I was mearly pointing out that children can make good friends at this age - not saying that this is the only way they can make good friends.

[galaxy]

agree secur. dd had lots of friends at 19 months and talked about them all the time

[secur]

how are dd and dss Galaxy I havn't seen you for ages?

ds and dd3 talk about their friends a lot and dd2 is still in the same class with many many people she has been with since being 12 /18 months old. I think this has given her a great strong base from which to go confidently into starting school we have had no incidents of being upset about staying in the classroom etc which many children suffer IMO that is again due to having a good confident base to start from knowing people well etc.

[galaxy]

HI secur - I'm well but really busy since starting new job in Jan and rarely get time to post!

How are you?

[sparklemagic]

I find this an interesting one because every child is different and so too is every parent's view of what they should and shouldn't be doing!

I think the simplest way to think about it is to remember that no child living in a loving home will be harmed by staying there until about 3 years of age. They will not lose out one iota, there is no 'race' to socialise that they will lose if they do not start early. In fact in my view children who have been happy and secure and loved at home MUST have a good strong base of self esteem which has to help when they do go out on their own to socialise with their peers.

My personal feeling is that it is better for them to experience these first social times at a playgroup with a parent there to gently guide and encourage and teach - rather than being thrown in alone to learn that way.

[secur]

Another move up for you then? (do they have a ceiling where you are? )

We are all well thank you, busy too but for different reasons! Do you get up this end any more?

[secur]

I would agree SM, but I like to throw my children into the deep end at the pool to learn to swim too - it is much quicker and cheaper than swimming lessons. (oh yes the earlier the better IMO)

[juuule]

"Can you explain why you know better than me whether I have made assumptions about my childrens development?"
I'm not saying that you have made assumptions about their development, but maybe just about what caused them to develop the way they have. You said that you believed they had developed the way they had as a direct result of going to nursery. I was just trying to point out that they may have developed the same way even if they hadn't gone to nursery or ...despite going to nursery.:)

[secur]

Secur - You have made a few assumptions that nursery is responsible for some areas of your children's development.

It was the "have" in the sentence that gave it away.

I am confident in the knowledge that the start my children had in life has contributed greatly to the people they have become.