control cry a 4 month old

(149 Posts)
JPaav Thu 15-Nov-12 19:58:05

Hi all. Need some advice. My 4 month old DD is in most ways a delightful baby, but she won't sleep at night more that 2 hours at a stretch. She was going for 5-7 hours but once she was 3.5 months it all went away. I am having some health issues and very high blood pressure and both her doctor and mine have recommended that we sleep train her via controlled crying. I used this method to perfect success with my older DD when she was 7 months. Do I do anything differently this time because she is 4 months? Any other tips??

ISeeThreadPeople Sun 18-Nov-12 21:01:48

Cote, you and I have v different ideas about sleep training clearly. I would never 'train' a child. I don't think it's possible tbh. I said I have nothing against gentler methods of helping them achieve sleep, guiding and working with them. NOT training. And what do I mean by appropriate time? Nothing to do with the calendar I'm afraid. Well it's simply when they're ready. Just like I weaned onto solids when they showed the signs of being ready, with sleep I watched how they fell asleep and when they reached the stage of latching off themselves and transitioning into sleep without the breast there, then I perhaps encouraged this from then on, gently removing them from the breast while they were becoming drowsy and they gently transitioned to self settling. No tears. If they weren't ready, rooted, or asked for milk, they had it.

And teething at 4 months is normal and not unusual at all. Average age for the first tooth to break through is 6 months so some will be before, some after and many babies will be teething by 4 months, particularly as the teeth move round and cause pain for some time before they break through.

5madthings Sun 18-Nov-12 02:36:07

Teething at four months isnt unusual at all!! All four if my boys had teeth by four monthd, if anything i woukd say not having teeth until nine/ten months is more unusual.

Jpaav. I agree with what you have said. I have done the shhh shh pat/cc thing (I thought cc was shhh shh pat) I try to get as much milk into dd as poss during the day. I started (from birth) by keeping dd up late at night (11.30pm) she would wake at 3am for feed then at 7am. One night she didn't wake for the 3am feed. Then after a few nights of hit and miss she continued to miss the 3am feed. This was at 6 weeks. We have always let her self sooth at night time.

We gradually put her to sleep earlier each night (5/10 mins earlier each night) she may whimper for 2 mins at bedtime now- but that's it and then she's asleep. Now (at 12 weeks) she's sleeping (on average) 8pm- 7am.

Her feeds- 7am, 9.45am, 12.30, 3.15pm, 6.00pm, 8pm. She is offered 5oz at each feed and usually has most/all of that.

A similar schedule has happened with my other dc. They are all great sleepers and v happy children.

I've only just seen this thread. I enjoyed Marc Weissbluth's book. I found it very helpful. But I did PUPD with DD but followed his routines and often referred to his data on what was normal at each age. I still refer to it now actually, it's a good book.

I did sleep training for daytime naps at 4 months and as mine did in fact teethe at 3 months to my horror, by 4 months they had two top teeth and two bottom ones at the front, I would always slather their gums in teething gel first, before any sleep training, to be sure it wasn't the pain from their gums.

I really hope your health improves and your DD settles better for you soon. Sounds like you're making progress already! Mine didn't sleep consistently through until 9 months. I didn't do CC at night though. Just shush pat. I'd probably just go back in every 5 mins if doing CC. It's so incredibly hard though, I'm glad you have your H's support.

Sleep training is always a contentious issue, hopefully you've had some good advice too though. I only scanned the thread. I just wanted to say how good I found his book more than anything. Good luck smile

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 20:20:21

Cindy I guess it just seems odd that you come and post someplace that clearly isn't intended for you am then push your opinions and offend me and others who are actually giving me the advice I asked for. I would never dream of doing that. As I've said earlier, find something better to do with your time!!

PeazlyPops Sat 17-Nov-12 20:16:07

Teething at 4 months isn't unusual at all! DS had 2 teeth at 12 weeks, and many, many babies I know have been teething since around 3 months.

I'd be surprised if a 4 month old wasn't teething. They are in pain for a good while before the teeth actually come through.

CindySherman Sat 17-Nov-12 20:02:38

I have made many points on this thread, a lot of your random sentences are not exactly relevant either, like "no teething at 4m" but it's all part of the overall discussion.

So, so defensive over doing something so wonderful. Good luck to you!
I sincerely wish all mums lots of lovely sleep tonight and all nights. grin

CoteDAzur Sat 17-Nov-12 19:53:58

"But to me the idea of "training" a 4m old is absolutely dreadful and totally alien. "

Thanks for sharing. Do you think that is relevant to this thread, where OP is asking what she should do differently, if anything, because she is sleep-training earlier this time?

CoteDAzur Sat 17-Nov-12 19:50:44

Let us agree that it is unusual for babies to have teeth at 4 months. Congratulations to yours if they had teeth at 4 months.

Mine had their first teeth at 9 months and 10 months. At 4 months they certainly were not teething.

hazeyjane Sat 17-Nov-12 19:43:57

All 3 of my dcs had their first teeth by the time they were 4 months old.

CindySherman Sat 17-Nov-12 19:38:27

teething can happen at 4m it did for DD and I didn't misunderstand your point.

You have my salutations that it worked for you - we all need sleep. But to me the idea of "training" a 4m old is absolutely dreadful and totally alien.

You sound like a lovely person yourself hmm the OP mentioned her medical issues then took offense when asked to expand on how these problems were related to the night wakings.

CoteDAzur Sat 17-Nov-12 19:27:34

Cindy - We didn't "ignore" our babies. I think you are confusing CC with CIO.

We went in and comforted our babies. Then left. If they were crying, we went in again after a minute or two.

"I would imagine a 4m old will not understand the concept of self-settling"

They don't have to understand it. That is what they do, though, once the habit of feeding at that time is broken - even if they wake up because of noise, for example, they just turn around and go back to sleep.

CoteDAzur Sat 17-Nov-12 19:23:09

"The reason babies don't sleep through is not because they "don't know how " "

You clearly misunderstood. Babies wake up at certain times in the beginning because they are hungry after a few hours. Then, these waking times persist even when baby gets to a stage when he is physically able to go through the night without a feed, because he now has the habit of feeding at these times. (Just like I have the habit of eating at 8 AM, 12 AM, 3 PM, and 7 PM). Sleep training is done to break this habit, to make the body forget 2 AM and 5 AM (for example) as meal times.

Interesting case in point: In some Muslim countries, during Ramadan, people get up to eat at 2 AM or so, then go back to bed. Then they wake up and fast all day, eating at sunset. Then up at 2 AM to eat again. After a month of this, they still wake up with grumbling tummies at 2 AM because their bodies now think of 2 AM as a meal time. The only way to correct this is to stop eating at 2 AM - ignore the grumbling tummy and go back to sleep. After a few nights, they stop waking up at 2 AM.

"it's for all manner of reasons, teething..."

Not at 4 months, it's not smile which is the reason why our paediatrician said it was a good idea to do it before 6 months.

"dreams, itching, illness, indigestion"

And so they don't need to be fed. We went to comfort our babies when they woke up in the night, just didn't give them a feed. And after a few nights, they stopped waking up. Funny how all "dreams, itching, illness, indigestion" stopped so quickly once we started sleep training.

"And you mentioned your medical problems so if they are of no concern to us"

You sound like a lovely person hmm Well, some of us did care, if you must know.

CindySherman Sat 17-Nov-12 19:19:41

In answer to the last point Cote I don't think there is an "appropriate" point to ignore a human being calling out for someone to help comfort him/her. But presumably the brain grows and awareness changes from the very early months? To me 4m is just out of the 4th trimester and they are just pods really grin

I would imagine a 4m old will not understand the concept of self-settling - they surely just want milk or someone to comfort them.

CoteDAzur Sat 17-Nov-12 19:11:51

" leaving a 4 month old to cry is unnecessary and unfair"

We obviously thought it was necessary. To each their own. Besides, what "leaving" we did was minutes at a time, not exactly abandonment.

And "unfair"? Really? What does "unfair" have to do with doing what you think is best for your family?

The end result speaks for itself: Both babies quickly started to sleep through (not midnight to 5 AM, by the way, but 8 PM to 8 AM), I stopped hallucinating from lack of sleep, DH started functioning at work and making money again. Everyone was happy, including the babies in question.

"I have nothing against gentler methods of helping a child self soothe and nothing against guiding them and working with them ^at an appropriate time^"

And how exactly do you know when this "appropriate time" is? Why six months and not four months? Why 12 months and not 6 months? What exactly do you think changes so dramatically in the way a baby perceives the world that he would be so negatively affected by sleep training at one point but not a few months later?

CindySherman Sat 17-Nov-12 17:17:30

Same for you and your " martyr mothers " comment - a different choice to yours - no need for the nasty labels.

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 16:34:01

And on a positive note dd and taken 2, uninterrupted 1-hour naps in her bed today and woke only twice last might briefly. It is working! Thanks to those who encouraged, it really helped. I am at from home and needed it!

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 16:29:48

I mentioned it to explain why my doctors are suggesting this, not to solicit commentary on my illness. And I believe what I believe about sleep and you feel differently. Let's not judge each other and be nasty.

CindySherman Sat 17-Nov-12 16:11:53

The reason babies don't sleep through is not because they "don't know how " it's for all manner of reasons, teething, dreams, itching, illness, indigestion they are just getting to grips with night and day at that age. What a load of nonsense. And you mentioned your medical problems so if they are of no concern to us and not related to your baby waking don't bother bringing them into your OP. confused

Houseworkprocrastinator Sat 17-Nov-12 15:39:12

" even adults didn't use to sleep in big 8-10 hr chunks. "

what did they do then?

5madthings Sat 17-Nov-12 15:30:07

sleeping through the night isnt only about solids and being full, its about needs and comfort and security which are fundamental to a babies emotional development.

i understand you ahve some medical issues and you need your sleep, so you need to do something, but i would never recomend cc for a baby that young, most health professionals now dont recomend it for babies under one year old.

have you read the pantley pull of method, it wont be a quick fix but it may help.

equally getting your dh involved in the night time settling etc, feed her till very sleepy but not totally asleep and then let him settle her. her wanting to feed to sleep is totally normal for her age and a natural thing for babies of all ages.

sleeping through the night is a very western phenomenon and a relatively new phase of human develpment, even adults didnt use to sleep in big 8-10 hr chunks.

perhaps some links to your medical experts, but iit really is totally normal for a baby of this age to need comfort in the night.

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 15:20:17

5 I have tried dummy and she spits it out and looks at me like you've got to be joking"

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 15:17:35

Sorry I am typing on touchpad and not very successful. Meant once they are eating some solids

JPaav Sat 17-Nov-12 15:16:29

I was told that by many medical experts. The reason babies don't sleep through then is becaus they don't know how. It I a learned behaviour but from a nutritional standpoint once the year some solids in the day they dont require night feeds.

5madthings Sat 17-Nov-12 15:15:18

i would try the pantley pull off technique btw to get her used to falling asleep without the breast or offer her a dummy if she really needs to suck for comfort which many many babies do and is totally normal and natural.

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