ds1 scratches his skin and pulls hair out when stressed - please help

[mule]

can anyone help please?
my ds1 (6 years) is most of the time very happy, is doing well at school, gets on fine with his two younger siblings but has always found it hard to relax, he is very active, loving, sensitive little chap, though highly strung and a perfectionist when it comes to most things. we have tried to help him with this ie. coping stragies using breathing, relaxation exercises, massage, humour, swimming, etc. He has no junk food and I make sure he gets outside to play after school to unwind. When he was younger he would bang his head when he got upset so I took him to a cranial osteopath which cured him of it but as he is getting older and more challanges come his way whether its falling out with a friend, losing in a race or a picture that has gone wrong (in is opinion) he will pull a bit of his hair out or scratch the skin on his forehead (not so deep that it bleeds). He will also call himself an idiot or stupid (both these words are banned in the house as we have told him how hurtful they can be). He just seems to turn in on himself and it terrifies me and dh. I am running out of ideas or reasons why he does this as his brothers seem to be the opposite but I worry not just about how this will escalate with ds1 but the fact that ds2 has started to copy him by hitting himself when he gets frustrated. This is happening about once a month at the moment, I have noticed he tends to get overwhelmed/overtired towards the end of term and I am tempted just to phone the school this last week and say he is exhausted but not sure how this will be received, I have talked with his teacher and she agrees he is a perfectionist but hasn't noticed any problems with this at school.
I have always been very conscious of nature/nurture idea as my side of the family have suffered mental illness and alcoholism. I am so worried that because of this there is nothing I can do to help change his behaviour or reactions when he feels overwhelmed.

[mooshetto]

My boy is 6 and a bit of a perfectionist and if doesn't achieve the results he wants he'll collapse on the ground in tears or put himself down but I can't say he's hurt himself.I offer him encouragement and tell him hes done a fantastic job and alittle talk.Most of the time it helps and if not ,at least you've let him know your thoughts.Otherwise,you might want to consider taking him to a gp or phsycologist as they would have a better understanding of the problem.Hope all goes well, I know it can be a stressful.

[mule]

Thanks Mooshetto have thought about GP but am also worried it might make it worse by becoming an 'issue'. On the one hand by trying desperately to stop him doing this when it happens I also feel he senses the power it holds by the horrified reaction from me and dh. Though the thought that he is hurting so much but that he can't verbalize his frustration, even though he is very articulate the rest of the time makes me feel hopeless. I think I am very sensitive to the possibility of history repeating itself as his nature is very similar to the person who has suffered with alcoholism. I really don't know what to do, I try to tell him to say he is upset with words, not with his hands. I have tried humour by teaching him to not take his feelings so seriously that they overtake him and just telling him how much we all love him and holding him.
Are there any other coping stratagies that anyone has found useful for their ds/dd?

[mule]

bump

[mule]

bump?

[colditz]

I am certainly no expert, and have no experiance either, so this is just an idea, but...

Could you try putting him in his bedroom when he stresses out and hurts himself? Not as a punishment, but so he can have quiet time on his own to deal with himself a bit.

You would have to make it clear that it isn't a punishment, and also enforce it with the entire family - stressing out, shouting and hurting yourself means it is time to go to your bedroom and calm down away from the source of stress.

This might have the knock-on effect of him receiving no attention for hurting himself, and he might be doing it merely to receive mummy and daddy's horrified reaction. Presumably if he isn't doing this at school, it is something he can control.

HTH and gives you some ideas?

[mule]

Thanks Colditz - we haven't tried that, but it has made me think your idea will be the forward as he only does this when he has an audience. I will do this without judgement so he understands he a) needs a safe place to calm down and b) its just not acceptable behaviour especially now his younger brother is copying him. He is incredibly tired at the moment, its the last day today so hoping he just needs a good rest. I am trying to look out for the warning signs before he gets to the hurting stage. It happened again this morning within moments of me being downstairs getting breakfast ready, he started arguing with his younger brother about who's turn it is to go swimming. Then because his younger brother is arguing back he just started pulling at his hair.
I tried to comfort him by saying 'oh you're really hurting' and gave him a hug. When I went back into the kitchen he scrumpled up my mothers day card he had made for me. I then tried ignoring him for the rest of the morning and took him into school but felt he should have stayed at home.

[Emma7]

I think it may be worth taliking to his teacher/school again. Are you absolutely sure that there is nothing going on (friendship/bullying issues? How does he cope with anger/frustration at school? Could they keep a closer eye on him for a bit?

At the school where I teach we have some great resources on anger management and self-esteem that the teacher or support assistant can work through with children - we have a lot of children with similar difficulties. The emphasis seems to be on encouraging them and giving them the skills to verbalise their emotions so that they don't self-harm.

Many of them seem to do it less as they get older and become more confident to express themselves in other ways. The bit I find most difficult is being told to 'ignore' the self harm as much as possible - eg. take them off the floor or away from the wall so that they can't head bang but don't say anything. Give them positive attention for calming themself down and dealing with their anger/frustration in a different way. This is easy to say but difficult to implement.

[mule]

Thanks Emma7 - we try to give him the words to express his frustration but when it strikes he seems so overwhelmed he can't find the words. He is very articulate the rest of the time being ahead in his reading and writing. I try getting him to write his frustration down or draw it as this seems to be his outlet. Though having not had brothers or sisters I can't really gage what is normal. Do you think this problem is increasing? I can't remember any of the children at my school doing this. I thought it would be more prevalent in children that have limited vocabulary or having spent lots of time with tv (we haven't got one). Thinking about it it seems he is emotionally young for his years though I imagine this can't be taught as it's life experiences that enable emotional developement?

[colditz]

self harm is quite common amongst frustrated children - he probably did it when younger but has continued because he really likes getting a massive reaction and some sympathy.

I think expressing sympathy for his pain when he has hurt himself might be a bad idea, perhaps you could make it very clear to him that although you have huge sympathy with the frustration he is feeling, him scratching and pulling at himself doesn't bother you remotely (although secretly it does, a lot!), and he is only allowed to do that in his bedroom.

It might be worth a try?

[saadia]

I posted a similar thread last week about my four yr old who scratches himself when angry. Just wanted to say I know how upsetting it is to see your child doing such things. I was advised, on MN and by HV to totally ignore it.

MIL had an entirely different approach which was to say "please carry on, do what you like" in a don't-care sort of way. Not sure about the wisdom of this approach but if nothing else works I may try it.

[mule]

Thanks Saadia just looked at your thread, the book sounds interesting. I have read a very good book called 'how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk' by faber and mazlish. Instinct has always told me not to use punishment/reward systems as it humiliates the child. I really hope a respectful time upstairs to relax will be the way forward as thinking about it it should hopefully take away the source of the stress whether its responding to his assertive brother or a drawing that he feels isn't going according to plan. The only worry is as he gets older he will be presented with much more of these challanges on a daily basis and he won't have the opportunity to calm down and think through it. It's also trying to find the tools for him to deal with it there and then.
Hope you have a peaceful weekend.

[saadia]

Thanks mule, wishing you a peaceful weekend too. This parenting business really is complicated, as different approaches work for different children and it's up to us to figure it out. The book you mention sounds interesting too, will check it out.

[mule]

things are not going well. at the weekend my parents in law came over for a meal and while i was cooking in the kitchen ds1 came in and started saying he didn't want what we were going to have for lunch. i said very calmly that could he leave the kitchen as there isn't enough space and he climbed into the dustbin and just stood there he has never done this before and we were shocked and embarrassed as mil and fil were watching. i took him upstairs to have some quiet time. but couldn't help feeling so angry as it seemed to come from nowhere and changed the whole mood of the day (we haven't told anyone about his behaviour apart from school). we then had a lovely day yesterday as i think he was trying to make up for it. we talked about making decisions and being in charge of his feelings - rather like navigating a ship, changing direction when you see a storm ahead type thing and he really liked this idea and did manage to stop himself a few times. i also said he has to really listen and really try and see what is going on ie. when i was in the kitchen i was trying to cook a meal for 9 people and talk to granny and grandad, i just needed to finish the cooking and get everything ready. this afternoon however he was prodding his baby brother with a toy and dh told him firmly 'no' which he ignored so dh shouted 'no! i said stop it!' then ds1 just ran out of the room and out of the front door and onto the road - its a private road but is shared with neigbours and cars can travel quite fast so again we have just been stunned by his behaviour. the awful thing is he seems to sense our embarrasment/shame factor and finds the weakest part of our nature is he old enough to be exploiting this maybe? as we had to bring him in as quickly as possible my dh turned it into a chasing game but i think he should have showed how wrong it was to run out like that but dh was worried about neigbours! i just despair, for the first time this weekend i managed to get dh to think about taking him to the doctor, but he is against the idea as worried this will be on his medical records forever and ds1 might become aware of this being an issue and exploit it or 'become the label' iykwim. the other thought is trying homeopathy but not sure what to do or what they would be treating. sometimes i think he presents similar boderline behaviours to adhd and aspergers, sometimes i think its a chemical imbalance. as i say he is very bright, loving, gentle boy most of the time though his volume is always on high aswell as he is extemely active to the point where he can't physically make himself still ie. when we are taking photographs. he just finds it impossible. he finds it almost impossible to walk he runs everywhere on his tiptoes. does this ring any bells with anyone?

[mule]

anyone?

[Heathcliffscathy]

there is no way of saying this in a way that i can be sure won't offend, but when a child is acting out in this way, there is usually something going on within the whole family. That is not a judgement, there is dysfunctional stuff going on in most families tbh.

his behaviour sounds serious to my mind and i think that you should seek professional help. in my opinion systemic family psychotherapy might be of use.

what i do think is that to look at him and his behaviour in isolation is a mistake.

i hope that you take this as intended: supportively and compassionately.

[Sparklemagic]

mule. don't know whether you will find this a useful point of view - but anyway - I think your DS sounds perfectly normal. He's obviously sustaining very good behaviour at school, otherwise you would have been informed, I guess. The harming himself in frustration isn't unique, other children can do this as you have heard on this thread. I totally agree with Colditz when she says use his room to defuse the situation, and I think be really no nonsense about it, not overly concerned. Just "well, nothing's worth getting this het up over!"

Please take this in the helpful tone it is offered - is it possible that your anxieties over his personality in view of his family history are making you over anxious about his behaviour? If I were him I would have got cross that my comment about what I wanted for dinner was met with "Go out of the kitchen" (though of course I understand you had alot on!) so I'm not surprised it resulted in some silly behaviour. Your anxiety about him generally seems very high - I would not have been remotely concerned if my DS had got in the bin (no matter who was watching!) I think I'd have laughed my head off. It sounds hysterical. Even if stress had given me a sense of humour bypass at the time, to me it would just have merited a withering look at him and a "oh for goodness sake DS1, how silly".

Also, with the poking his brother with a toy, maybe your DH shouted just too quickly? Is he generally able to distract him or get him on to other activities? I remember as a kid reacting to shouting by running away - never on to the road, but kids can be very impulsive still at 6.

From your posts it sounds very much that you are highly anxious about him and taking his behaviour a bit seriously. I understand why, I understand your worries, but do you think if you cranked your anxiety down it may bring about a similar reaction in him? Would this explain why he only harms at home, not at school?

I hope some of this might be useful.

[Sparklemagic]

this is what I love about mumsnet! I think he's perfectly normal, sophable thinks his behaviour is serious!!

Hope you can pick your way through it though Mule. You know him best and will know what to do.

[mule]

Sophable and Sparklemagic - I think you're both right
not offended at all. sorry its taken so long to respond,|I got dh to read through aswell as i think part of the problem as he is on different page to me when it comes to ways of dealing with all this. Having read faber/mazlish books i have found the systemic method really works but dh says he's too busy to read them so aswell as dealing with ds1 I feel as if i'm constantly correcting dh's response aswell.
We had booked an appointement with dr's today then cancelled a few hours later as he seemed so normal and happy again, it seems to depend which way the wind is blowing. Both of your messages are so useful as it reflects the thoughts I have that on the one hand i have to take responsibility for my own feelings to do with my family history and the anxiety that is attached to that and on the other hand i worry by not addressing that there might be a problem with ds1 is delaying any potential help he/we could be getting for him. Its time to stop dithering and start making a decision.

[ahundredtimes]

Mule - don't know if this will help, but might offer some encouragement. My ds1 was also a perfectionist, very active and prone to fits of impulsive and crazy behaviour, as well as being a bit silly and volatile. The bit about him standing in the bin, absolutely rang a bell with me! He's now 8, nearly 9, and much more in control and better balanced generally about things. He stopped screwing things up and tantruming when his drawings/homework whatever didn't turn out right when I stopped being anxious about it! The 'oh, aren't you going to finish that lovely picture?' (said with back turned and voice of cool neutrality) really worked for me. He's a bright boy and clearly finds it much easier to be 8 than 6. I'm sure your ds1 will too. Allow him to be himself, don't give too much attention to the bin-standing etc, and take deep breaths. Only another two years....

[mule]

WharfRat - so sorry to hear you and your dd are suffering too. There was a lovely comment someone posted to me once on another thread, again about a similar worry who said she had recently read an article in the paper that week where a psyciatrist believed that 'most mental illnesses that are passed down a generation are learnt bad coping mechanisms rather than genetic inheritance'. This has given me enormous comfort as a big part of me really believes this to be true. I just need to find the key!
Ahundredtimes - so it sounds like I hold the key! Thank you for you kind words, it really helps to hear how you have turned things around. Yes I need to relax more, it seems to be a vicious circle as one sets off the other and if I'm (pretending) to be too relaxed he goes too wild, I need to aim for the firm loving boundaries without the hysteria
You are all so kind