Aggressive Mummy trying to discipline my 20 mo DS inappropriately

[catcatdelight]

In music class, my 20 mo DS, who is by far the most passionate in the class, lightly pushed another 20 mo boy on his belly today. The boy did not fall down or anything. The pregnant mother came over, grabbed my son's arm, and said NO, you can't do that, in an extremely aggressive, mean, angry way. I said, Don't Discipline my child very calmly, and she said irately that I need to discipline him better, etc. I said, he's too young, and she said he's a bully (He is 100% NOT), and that he's not a baby anymore. She started packing her bags to leave early in anger, and continued with her verbal sparring, so finally I just told her to Go to Hell (I know, bad, but hey, she started it).

Then, they were outside class putting shoes on, and my son started waving bye bye thru the glass, and wanted the boy to come back to class. The mother continued to give my son dirty looks, and yell at him thru the glass, discipling him THRU THE GLASS, which to me, revealed her as a psycho.

Everyone else in the class, including the teacher said not to worry, she's pregnant, and that this incident was nothing compared to 3 year old's, etc. But of course, I am upset.

A) this happenened in the US, where we've just moved B) she had been uptight earlier that month with my DS about musical instrument sharing, c) her son is shy and docile, and D) my DS is happy and passionate about music class, and cute and well-dressed, so it could be (envy) jealousy. However, I wish I'd had the perfect thing to put her in her place, while still acting like a lady. A month earlier she got bent out of shape b/c my son grabbed a drum near her son...you know the type.

The books say that disciplining a 20 mo is sort of pointless to a degree, and I really do not want to kill his spirit, or hurt his self esteem. But, I do not want him to push, obviously, and may have to address that down the road.

My question is, do some of you mommies of older, spirited boys have experience with this sort of thing. In my opinion, she crossed the line and therefore lost her power when she disciplined him, instead of talking to me personally. Any help is appreciated....

[PiccadillyCircus]

I would say that although what this mother did would have annoyed me, I don't agree that there is no point in disciplining 20 mo.

Pushing is a big no-no in our house (my DS is 28 months) and I would remove him from someone he pushed, even if it were gentle. I think I started "discipling" DS when he was about a year, possibly younger. His spirit doesn't appear to have been daunted .

[colditz]

So not her place to discipline your son. Unless she had to physically lift your son off her own child, she had no right to even touch your son as a discipline method. The woman is clearly a loon. I think the only thing you should say in future is to threaten her with legal action if she places her hands on your child again.

Oh and imo, 20 months old isn't a baby, but is hardly a child! anything goes at 20 months old. What would she do if your son had bitten (as they do!)? Bombed the playgroup?

[cod]

nah get a new friedn or gorup
or dont go to them
kids cnat share till they are at least 2 and a half

[colditz]

By anything goes, I don't mean let them, btw, I mean to expect it. Pushing could be dealt with by leading the child away, and saying no pushing. I would expect a mother of a 20 month old to step in, remove a pushing child, and say firmly "No pushing!"

[niceglasses]

Hummm. I probably would have said something to my son more to pls the mother than any real discipline, though I might have asked mine as well to say sorry so he/she knew it was wrong. I have 2 boys and 1 girl, the girl being the same age as your son. She is by far the worst for pushing, hitting and much more - I think probably for having to cope with 2 older boys at home.It can be quite embarrassing - luckily so far the mums have been okay, but Im waiting for one to tell me my daughter is a loon. It doesn't sound like your son is a bully at all, but sometimes for peace you have to make a pretence of saying sorry!!

I usually tell her its naughty, make her say sorry (sort of) and apologise to the mother. Having said that, it sounds like she was a bit over the top and probably worth ignoring after you'd said sorry - shes gonna get a lot worse than that at times I'm afraid for her little darling.

[starlover]

my 13 month old is going through a grabbing and pushing phase and I DO tell him not to, and take him away if necessary.

He does need to learn that it isn't appropriate, and while I appreciate he may not fully understand it right now it's best that he learns young.

If I had been in your place I would have said something to my son, and possibly removed him from the situation.

that said, i do think the lady was OTT in her reaction

[threebob]

Was this actually during the session - what did the teacher do?

[Blu]

I think you can say 'no pushing' to a 20m old - Ds understood at that age, and he is indeed spitited, etc. And it certainly hasn't broken his spirit.

BUT she was obviously in a highly-strung state and reacted v unreasonably, and I would just let it go by the way - keep a bit of a distance from her in future, unless she comes back next week and says 'oh, I'm SO sorry about sounding off last week..'

What do you mean by 'the most passionate in the class'...and what does cute and well-dressed come into this? Are you sure you are not projecting Pushy Mom vibes here, Catcat??

[colditz]

If she is pregnant I can't wait until her eldest pokes the baby in the eye. Will that make him a bully?

[niceglasses]

Hmm catcat, didn't like to say straight off for risk of offending, but as Blu says, its a bit odd to say "most passionate" - how do you know? Other pples kids may show passion in a different way. Sorry, don't mean to criticise you , but not sure why clothes come into it either. Guess she is just a highly strung mum.......

[edam]

Inclined to think give the woman a break, she's pregnant after all, and you can get things way out of proportion when you are expecting.

I'm surprised you don't want to discipline a 20 mo though. If my ds had pushed/hurt/kicked another child at that age, I'd have told him 'no' firmly and made him say sorry. Isn't that discipline, ie pointing out that some behaviour is not acceptable? You don't have to beat them to enforce discipline.

[Pinotmum]

Please feel free to tell me I've got it wrong OK but you say there is little point in disciplining a 20 mth old. What is wrong in saying "be gentle" or "don't push" to a 20 month old? After hearing it for a while it may make a difference and at least it let's other mothers know you don't ignore this behaviour. BTW I think the other woman over reacted totally.

[Blandmum]

While the woman did over react I would always have said 'no' , firmly, to my child to let them know that their behaviour wasn't acceptable. It can also help to 'defuse' the situation, if the other mum sees that you are taking care of the situation IYSWIM

[Blu]

I agree - it's an etiquette thing, and shows you do care about the other child even if your own is too youn / oblivious.

But it would be good to start impressing the 'no hitting / no pushing' routine.

I think kids can learn 'no snatching' and 'taking turns' at quite a young age, too. 'sharing' is a bit of an abstract concept, but you can show them how to 'take turns' by giving them very short turns - so that they can see they will get a go - and deter snatching. Not always successfully, of course!

[catcatdelight]

The thing is, if she hadn't grabbed my son so fast, and spoke to him so harshly, and if she hadn't already been inappropriate to us a month ago, I of course, would have said so sorry, and No Pushing firmly to him. But she didn't give me time. I knew immediately I was dealing with a type A neurotic, and mostly b/c it was such a GENTLE, PLAYFUL PUSH, I did nothing, now that I think of it.

It was the last day of class, so she just went for it. (I'll never see her again b/c we're moving to a different town) The teacher only consoled me when the girl left, saying the girl can't handle too much, cannot juggle. The whole class seemed sympathetic to us, b/c they know my DS just gets excited.

I guess I really was looking for something to say to inappropriate Mothers that are, well, Strangers. Obviously, if this had been at a friend's house, or even at the local playground, it would have gone completely different, let's all be honest. And that is how my suspicions of jealousy come up...

However, Blu, while I can appreciate your suggestion, I hardly believe I was giving a pushy mom vibe, b/c I cannot stand that, and b/c I am nice to everyone. (If anything, she was mad b/c I was too laid back.) I am merely calling a spade a spade, and trying to understand her OTT behaviour. It just so happens he IS the most outwardly passionate in the class, and that's not bragging, it's factual. Believe me, he isn't perfect. But, Female jealousy is very real, and actually quite prevalent. (not to go off topic, but it is tangential)

[Blu]

She was completely out of order, I agree, and had no business grabbing your son.
Didn't mean to be horrid - just looking at it from other perspectives
Glad your out of her zone from now on!

[Raggydoll]

its not fair that she didn't even give you the chance to step in - often if i think ds is in a difficult situation with another child i'll look meaningfully at the other mum or we'll share a look, the kind that is a friendly 'know what you mean' look. (not sure if I've made myself clear there but you know how mums tend to look at one another in a consolidatory kind of way??)

on the other note I have been setting bounderies ever since ds started to do things he should't ie: no pushing, hitting, snatching, throwing in the house, climing on the sofa - basically i'm really strict on pysical aggression and throwing and I try to enforce the rest so he knows how to behave at other peoples houses. ds is 2.4 but he's known these rules since about 10mths. I think you have to start straight away or it will come as a reall shock to them later on and they won't understand why something is suddenly not ok.

[Tortington]

shes obviously a fuckwit

[koolkat]

catcat - Totally agree that the woman you are talking about was hormonal and a bit mad.

But I have had to remove myself and my DS from a group which I had attended for nearly a year because of the other mother's attitudes towards my DS.

The last meeting I attended at someone's house ended like this: I left DS in living room and said to all the other mothers present "could someone please look after my DS while I go to the loo ?" I came back and found DS being repeatedly pushed until he fell onto his side and the mother of the said boy who did it (a tall 2.5 year old who totally over-shadowed my short, rather small 20 month old) said "oh, he has fallen" to which I really really wanted to say "No, he bloody well hasn't fallen, he has been pushed by your son!!" While I was in the loo (for literally 2 minutes) she had done absolutely nothing to stop her older child from pushing mine and it never occurred to her to apologise.

But I just about managed to keep my dignity and said nothing. I said gooddbye to everyone and left a little early, pretended nothing had happened. I am often shocked at the way other people behave with their own toddlers let alone with mine.

I agree that desciplining (by this I mean actual punishmnet) of a 20 month old is a bit pointless, however, that does not mean that one should not instruct or tell the child that he must not push or hit. It is also a good idea to immediately remove the child from the scene and apologise to the parents. I know this is a bit OTT, but to be honest I think it is only polite. I have been annoyed and said nothing on numerous occassions because parents have made no attempt to stop their child from hitting mine and also not bothered to apologise to ME. Yes, I know that toddlers do this sort of thing, but as adults we have to take control.

My son is an only child and because he has no one else around our house that he can push and he hit he just doesn't know how to ! I have never seen him hit or push another child, despite being very bubbly and active, so I guess I am just lucky.

But if he does anything like this in the future, I will stop him and tell him he mustn't do it no matter what age he is. They will get the message eventually that they must not be anti-social.

[koolkat]

Oh, forgot to add the mad woman has absolutely NO right to touch your child. If she does, tell her you will "sue her ass", language she will understand over there in the USA !!

[JennyLee]

I hate that kind of behaviour when my ds does wrong i go and apologise to the mother and get ds to apologise too but it has backfired a coupl of tiems when the mother have sworn at me or told me to hit there and then as if I would.
or when smaller kids have hit my ds and then he hits back and has scrathces on him nothing on them and the granny ended up truning it onto my ds and ended with something has gone wrong there... AAAAH I sympathise with you the women is an asss, why can people be understanding , we all have kids fgs!!

[WideWebWitch]

20mos is way too young to be disciplining. It's ok imo to say no firmly and kindly but he's DEF too young to be a bully. Fgs. sorry if I'm repeating, haven't read the thread.

[WideWebWitch]

I mean disciplining inth e way she means, I do think it's old enough to start teaching them no biting/hiting/pushing.

[NotQuiteCockney]

I don't have a problem with another mum telling my kid "please don't do X". I do this to other kids all the time (and had another mum get annoyed at me for it the other day - I said "please don't snatch" to her son, who was trying to take something off my kid).

But I don't shout! And I don't touch other people's kids, at least not in this context.

This woman does seem bonkers, and frankly, if faced with this sort of madness, I'd be inclined to agree with anything and back away. There's no point in confronting someone who is this angry, frankly.

[Rowlers]

One can't be too precious about behaviour at this age - they all go through phases of pushing and shoving and grabbing etc.
Yes, "discipline" them (whatever that means at 20m) but let your motto be distraction distraction distraction.....
They can't apologise at this age
Yer woman sounds a bit er, het up.
Leave her to her neurosis and forget it.