anyone got an child with strange/obsessive behaviours?

[clove]

Hello. I wonder if anyone could give me some advice about my dd, 7. She seems to be developing some obsessive/strange behaviours, and so far I have reacted appallingly to them, by shouting/freaking out and telling her to stop.
I don't need to be told that this is the last thing I should be doing, but I am terrified that these behaviours are a "sign" of something as there is a lot of mental illness in my family.
The behaviours are: excessive toilet going, especially when I need her attention - seems to be a form of control freakery - "I just need the toilet" whenever I am about to do something with her, tell her something, or read to her, and then she might go 3 times in 1 minute. Fiddling and faddling about, moving objects ( I HATE THIS ONE!) arranging things, etc, strange touching of herself, like fluttering her fingers on her nose, or clapping. These sound to me a bit like Autistic spectrum behaviours, but she has none of the other symptoms - she is at the top of her class for literacy and average for maths,is very empathetic, imaginative, and creative, has a high reading age, and is very affectionate, and makes friends easily, and she doesn't indulge these behaviours with her friends. Sometimes however this other personality seems to come into play, which is very "young" seeming, a bit thick, a bit dreamy, and a bit "stuck" and she often doesn't know what to do with herself. I think I am guilty of having been a control freak mother myself and haven't allowed her enough breathing space. I have also got a filthy temper and have said some vile things, but never hit, and always been affectionate. I believe that neither of these things can have helped her if she has a tendency to obsessive behaviours, but I wonder if anyone can recognise anything from what I've said?

[Jimjams]

It sounds like a mild bout of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder). My 6 year old son (who is severely autistic- but I'm not suggesting for 1 moment your dd is) has a lot of OCD. We've had some advice on managing it. Things like don't ban it (unless its dagerous), but limit it- so we use last times, or countdowns from 10 to warn him he hjas to stop (sometimes will go straight back to it). We never stop an obsession unless its dagerous or antisocial as they are just replaced by another.

Most ocd type behaviours are worse with anxiety.

[clove]

Thanks for responding so quickly jimjams, do I need to get a dx for her and how can I treat the underlying anxiety? She has always been anxious and particularly recently.

[vickitiredmum]

Im hoping i dont offend here but it sounds like - from how you describe yourself - that perhaps she is simply overly anxious as a result of you being a little bit "on a knife edge". Probably would resolve itself if you changed how you were with her.

As i said - i apologise if it offends but thats what i get from the information you have given. I do sympathise with the temper thing - im desperately trying to control my vicious tongue on my DD and really dont want to end up starting a behaviour or habit in her because of that.

I would certainly seek advice from OCD type organisations or your GP.

[zippitippitoes]

Could the fact that she is excelling in some areas of learning mean that she has become anxious about staying at the top, afraid of geting the wrong answer, making errors..she sounds sensitive and these behaviours are signs of that stress

[waterfalls]

She sounds very bright, it might be possible she is just frustrated.

My son also has some obbsessive behaviours (suspected autism) i.e he is always throwing things. I was told by a paediatrician that it is possibly frustration and needs more stimulation as regards to learning as he is also very bright, by the time he was 2yrs he knew, among other things.
The whole alphabet, both upper and lower case
Could count and read numbers to 20
knew 9 colours
knew about 10 shapes

[Jimjams]

clove there are good books. Maybe browse on Amazon or look at the Jessica Kingsley website. She publishes on that sort of thing. TBH I think a lot of people will show ocd type behaviour at some stage in their lives. If it's irritating to you it's not necessarily a problem for her iyswim- and I think you don't need to seek help necessarily unless it becomes a problem for her.

You could talk to your GP- but they don't realy do much unless it gets very bad (cognitive behaviour therap;y is supposedly good). We;ve been referred to a clinical psych as ds1's ocd can produce some very challenging behaviours - but have been waiting months- and supposedly we're fast tracked because we're being seen via the clinical psych attached to his school.

[clove]

Thanks all. Vicky - for sure I am not helping when I shout at her - I just find that behaviour scary, I don't understand it, and my anxiety makes me freak out. not proud, just where I'm at at the moment, and trying to change. Waterfalls, Zippy, she is intelligent and sensitive, definitely, although she can also seem "slow" as she is shy and dreamy. She is absolutely gorgeous and I want to stop hindering her and start helping her. So I am off to amazon to read some books suggested by Jimjams, thank you very much for your suggestions. That must be very difficult to cope with jimjams - I've read many of your posts on different subjects and I know you have a lot on your plate.cheers.

[nutcracker]

Hiya, my dd2 (5) had/has mild OCD. Her obsession is germs and handwashing.

If you are at all concerned I would definatly go and see your gp. I did with dd and she was reffered to a clinical phsychologist.

Unfortunatly our psch was crap and basically said it was my fault because I hadn't stopped her from committing the obsessive behaviour.
Luckily though for dd, having someone else explain to her that she didn't need to do it etc and telling her she was only allowed to wash hands once and only after going to the toilet etc etc seemed to help her and she has almost stopped.

She still has relapses and then i literally have to sit on her to stop her washing them, but thankfully that is rare now (about once every 2 mths or so).

Hope you get the help you need for your dd

[aloha]

I also suspect that you are projecting all sorts of anxieties onto her because of your family history and possibly also seeing things that aren't there or are benign. If she doesnt' show the behaviours with friends then I suspect you are making her nervous by noticing them and getting so cross. My ds is dyspraxic and does stuff like put everything in his mouth (he is just four) I worry about how this will affect him, ie getting teased, and believe me, I know how worry can turn into anger and aggression, but we both know this is wrong and has to stop. If your dd's behaviours are nervous tics then you have to make a huge effort not to notice them, commment on them and treat your reactions and feelings as your problems, not hers. Honestly, if she doesn't exhibit these behaviours with anyone else (eg at school or with friends), then they are your problem really. This is coming out as harsher than I intended, and as I said, I know exactly what you mean about anxiety translating into anger.
Shy and dreamy is fine! She is very young you know. I think whenever you find yourself examining her and getting anxious you need to distract yourself, walk away, do whatever it takes to avoid getting aggressive with your dd. If reading to her is making you angry, then don't read to her!
I recently posted that I got horribly angry with my ds because he wouldn't pose or stand still for a photograph. I'm really ashamed of myself, and have resolved not to ask him again, as it clearly triggers something in me.

[aloha]

btw, I think we all do strange things when we are nervous - eg going to the loo often, fiddling with objects etc. I do all of those when I am jittery.

[clove]

Aloha, that's a brilliant post. thank you. And I am going to try and do that. How did you train yourself to do it with your little boy?

[clove]

duh! could it be that she is just afraid of going to bed?

[aloha]

Clove, it is still a work in progress! I used to get angry with him for moving so painfully slowly - I found it embarrassing that he was so daffy about it - and I was worried something was wrong and I would shout and be irrationally annoyed. But he can't help it, it's him, it's not harmful and though I can help him by, say, encouraging him and making jokes and cajoling, shouting doesn't help. It takes a lot of effort though sometimes. I cringe when he puts everything in his mouth or is being silly, but have to keep reminding myself not to be angry and think of all his wonderful qualities. Like you I have an explosive temper at times and don't like this about myself. But realising that he wasn't 'making' me angry, but I was making myself angry was a good start. My ds is also much worse when I am cross with him. He sort of panics a bit, gets nervous and the behaviour that I dislike just gets worse! But I can remember the feeling of panic when I was in trouble as a kid (or even as an adult, say, at work) and how it makes you behave inappropriately by giggling or fiddling etc.

[aloha]

Never underestimate what they are afraid of! Ds has just started being scared of the dark. I had to prance around last night making magic spells to banish all things scary and bring on happy dreams! Made him laugh, anyway.

[aloha]

Your dd sounds lovely by the way, and doing so well.

[berolina]

clove, I had moderate ocd from age 16 for a couple of years. In my case it was hand washing and aversion to 'dirt'. I know it's a different situation in a teenager, but (and I think you know this already) please try and stop freaking out, as that was my parents' (particularly my mother's) basically only reaction to it and it was terribly damaging. At 28 I still sometimes jump when I'm in the bathroom at night and hear dh getting up, as my parents used to get up and come and shout at me/bang on the door when I was in the bathroom at night for more than about 5 minutes. I can't tell you 'why' she's like this, as something like this is very complex. Your dd sounds exactly like me apart from the making friends easily bit - that only came when I got away from home/school. In fact the ocd subsided on its own then too. I can't give muchj practical advice over and above what I've said already - just that you sound so much more prepared to engage with the situation and your reactions to it than my parents were (I'm sure you don't regulatrly threaten to get your dd sectioned, for one thing!) and wish you well in supporting her. Vestiges of these behaviours may remain - I still have little traces of ocd-like behaviour, but nowhere near enough to interfere with my life at all.

[clove]

berolina, I'm so, so sorry to hear that you went through that - threatened to get you sectioned?!!! . I have however found myself saying "people will think you are strange" to her, which I then want to cut my tongue off for saying - I guess it's only a milder version of what was said to you, and yet that makes me furious on your behalf. Aloha, thank you very, very much - your words are very inspiring - and your ds sounds adorable although I can totally imagine how frustrating it must be sometimes. how old is he. I have never been very good at walking away from a situation - I tend to leap straight in - latina that I am - so I will try and follow your example and think calming thoughts. It is always worse when my dp is away - as he has been for the last month - my dd and I become almost fused, and then it is hard to get any emotional distance from her. but I'm gonna try.

[aloha]

Oh, it's always harder when you are being a single parent, even temporarily. That's tough. My ds is just four.
I think you've hit the nail on the head about feeling like one person. I think we (I!) can forget that our children are separate to us and different to us, and it's OK for them to do their things and it's not a reflection on us, and actually, they seem to be OK.
I'm not sure this is OCD if she only does it with you, when stressed.
And I think most parents will say we constantly set ourselves high standards that we constantly fail to meet
One thing, I have found that if I actually look for things to praise I find so many that the telling off and getting anxious/stressed seems to fall away to a great extent. I started keeping a behaviour chart with happy faces for excellent behaviour and sad faces too. Then I decided to ditch the sad faces and just put happy ones and it works much, much better.

[bambi06]

i dont mean to offend but do you have expectations of her which she feels she`s not capable of fulfilling so has to find a way out ie going to the loo ..in the hope that you will have forgotten about it when she comes out again...does she do it with everyone else.at school etc? my son has obsessive behaviour but does it everywhere.

[clove]

aloha I am going to copy you as I don't have any spare energy to devise a system of my own....! I've never understood why you would put sad faces on anyway, isn't that giving attention to bad behaviour - similar to shouting really, just another way of letting off parental steam.