to want dh to confront his dysfunctional family?

[silverfrog]

dh's family are fruitloops (and that is understating it!)

hisparents are toxic and abusive. his brothers are following in their footsteps.

we have had a few incidents overt he years (standard stuff - I am not good enough for dh (grew up on a council estate ), most of them think I am a gold diger (large ish age gap between us), both brothers prefer dh's ex wife to me (fine on a personal level - not so fine when it comes to excluding dh from family events because they prefer to invite his ex - NB, we have never specified "us or her"), the list oges on really.

we are in the middle of a ridiculous farcical row with PIL, going on for a while now, due to FILbeing abusive towards dh's son and daughter last year, and now refusing to apologise or acknowledge. dh's initial take on these things (they inevitably end up being about me not fittign in, or the fact that problems started after we were married (they didn't), or the fact that my presence at family events would make dh's ex uncomfortable, and well, "she was around first") is that he takesa huge stand - says to me (TOTALLY unprompted - it is not somehtign I owuld ever make him do) "if they want me to choose, then I will choose you and dds"

BUT then, time goes by, the odd phone call happens, he meets a brother for lunch or similar, and what actually happens, by default, is that they carry on their relationship, and just don't mention me.

it is now dh's older brother's birthday party next week - his 50th.

first I have heard of it is my dsd phoning just now to ask if we are going (I suspect she was put up to it by PIL, and also her mother (she pretty muchsaid as much). needless to say, e haven't been invited.

so, the rest of the family get ot play happy families - everyoen there, including ex-wife and what the family sees as the 2 "proper" grandchildren in dh's line (mine don't really count, apparently, as 2nd marriages don't realy count!) - everyone except dh.

he will be hurt by this. and I will have to listen to it for weeks again - how they have made him choose, etc etc, and how they are unhappy he won't toe the line and attend without me (has been suggested in the past).

BUT he won't actually confront them over it - he ends up going quiet for a while, and then slowly starting up the phonecalls/lunches again.

AIBU to be annoyed with this pattern? if it was me, I'd have had it out properly with my siblings/arentsby now.

[Bonsoir]

Confrontation is probably a waste of time.

You need to draw your boundaries over what is and what isn't behaviour towards you that you can accept.

It is quite acceptable not to accept invitations to family gatherings where the ex has also been invited. You are not living in a harem.

[silverfrog]

part of the problem is that dh no longer gets invites because they invite the ex (presumably she has stipulated the "us or them", or maybe they jsut feel they should!)

and so dh is hurt by his families actions, and says he cannot take it any longer, but then slowly, slowly, starts increasing ocntact again.

I am just fed up of listening to the whole bloody cycle, tbh.

I couldn't care less if we never see them again. if we do, then we get on tolerably well.

but I don't really want to listen to dh being cut up about it all, when he does nothing to bring it all out into the open.

[GeekOfTheWeek]

Bonsoir, I read it as though they aren't recieving invites or invites only for the dh.

Op, YANBU imo. Do they actually hate you? That is how it is coming across. I think you and your children are being treated appallingly and I would have no respect for a man that allowed this to happen.

[RunawayWife]

Has the EX wife not got a new partner?
Is she just hanging on to the ex PIL ?

I think you need to tell your DH that this whole situation is stupid and he does need to choose, he needs to walk away from these nutters once and for all

[OctaviaH]

Hmmm... I dont think yabu, but that's not to say you should force him to confront them. Yes, it might bring all of this to a resolution, but it should be done if and when he feels ready. Tbh i dont think it's going to bring about a positive outcome, but is it possible that you want dh to create a situation where his family are no longer part of his life, and so desire a confrontation? I dont blame you for being fed up of it, it sounds incredibly stressful.

Sometimes we just have to cobble through with families, and if your dh thinks its worth putting up with, well, that's his choice.

Whati would be really, really angry about, though, is their refusal to acknowledge your children. I dont think it's sending out the right messages to them at all, and purely because of this i would advocate cutting them off. Maybe a solution could be for your dh to see them discreetly alone, and try not to make a big deal out of it to dc's.

Hope that helps!

[silverfrog]

that's right, we no longer get invites.

no idea, really, what is up with elder brother - nothing in particular has happened ther e(not that it has with younger brother, either, come to think of it, but there is more history there)

I do not want to be the one that says "choose between me and your family". I think no good can come of that. it is not my place to ask that of him.

I do resent the whole "oh look, here's the whole family all together" stuff that is presented at these events - my step children are there, and, although now adult, have had this for a long time. they are no "more" valid thanmy children, just because they are form a first marriage, but this is what is presented ot them - it is all as if dh and ex never split up and he is just absent form the event due to a business trip or soemthing

I don't see why they would hate me.I don't think I'm that unlikable .there are obvious things we don't agree on, but that is all part of life's rich tapestry, surely (along with visiting clearly bonkers aging parents - duty stuff). they do like dh's ex, and had years of friendship. fine, fair enough - that's where it would be wrong for us to say "don't invite her" (not that we are given that option any more anyway!)

but I don't like the way dh says he is not going to tolerate it any more, and then just slides back inot his side of the relationship again.

[silverfrog]

Octavia - last time they were our guests, they had the cheek to sit at dinner (Christmas dinner!), along with my stepchildren, and argue about how second marriagesaren't valid.

his younger brother once made a point of saying that his "proper" sil was dh's ex, and he still considered her his sil, therefore I couldn't be his sil. and that his relatives form dh's family are dsd and dss. no mention of the dds.

it's just such a mess.

I don't really want a confrontaation, but I am sickof dh saying one thing and doing another, and htis is all about to start again when he gets back form current business trip and finds his older brother is having a party that we are not invited to, but veryone else is.

[GeekOfTheWeek]

Were you the ow?

Did your dh leave her for you?

[silverfrog]

god no! they split up about 8 years before we even met. they were divorced for 4 years before we met too.

I would half understand it if I had been the ow, but nothing like that.

[EldritchCleavage]

It's really about DH, isn't it? You sound as though you have a realistic acceptance of what his family are truly like, of how they behave, and of the fact they won't change. It doesn't sound as though your DH does.

Maybe you could tell DH the decision is entirely up to him, but it is really hard on you (given the treatment you have to take) to have to listen to him vacillating about it. And, that whatever else he does, he should really stick up for his two younger children.

[anyabanya]

Then they really are fruitloops of the first order.

Are they religious, with their 'second marriages don't count' bullshit?

[OctaviaH]

That sounds awful.

My instinct is that if they do not acknowledge you, you do not acknowledge them. Sounds a bit petty but it doesnt sound like you can continue being civil (and hosting them for xmas!) if they are causing you this much stress. And i cant imagine how i would feel if, growing up, a whole side of the family refused to acknowledge me.

Maybe tell your dh how you feel and then discourage any handwringing from him? He is free to do as he wants but you have simply had enough and they are not a part of your life.

[GeekOfTheWeek]

Tbh I doubt very much I would stay married to someone who facilitated such dire treatment of his wife and children.

[silverfrog]

they are reasonably religious - but you know the best bit? FIL is on his second marriage! dh and brothers are themselves the product of a second marriage... truly fucked up< I tell you.

no worries about hosting anymore - since last year when FIL raged at dss and dsd over some imagined slight (and by raged I mean really shouted and ranted. dss was 17 at the time, and was actually scared) we have said they are not setting foot in our house unless and until they a) apologise (and mean it) and b0 we can trust that he won't ever do it again (dd1 is ASD, and we cannot trust his temper around her with all her quirks/tics/repeated phrases etc)

[TotalChaos]

completely agree with Octavia - fair enough if he doesn't want to cut them off - but if he continues to see them, despite them trying to deny your existence, then that cuts both ways - that you shouldn't be expected to deal with them/knock on effects of their behaviour.

[TotallyBonkersTotti]

Men and their dysfunctional relationships with their parents (in particular their mothers) are commoner than you think dear silverfrog.
Have experienced similar scenarios although more sly and crafty rather than open and loud...and I am first wife from same cultural background with good job etc...

bottom line after trying for the last 2 years to approach them and fallin for dhs they will change` line: they wont and neither do husbands like to confront their parents/siblings...in a way they are more romantic than us in believing that all will be fine over time, plus the insecurity and craving of parental approval for their actions...
only thing that seems to be working for me is to have some very honest chats with my dh and keep our distance ie meeting them as little as possible, yet keep civil and ignore the jibes, manipulations, provcations etc. when with them...though point them out to dh when alone in a calm way.
As mentioned before the most important part is drawing your boundaries as acouple...do not let any crap of theirs affect yu and just comfort your dh when he yet again has been upset. It is his decision as and when ready (if ever ) to pack the bull by the horns. At the same time you being open and listening rather than judging, will bring you closer and reassure him that he has an ally in you.

[QualityTime]

I can totally sympathise silverfrog. I have a toxic father and have not spoken to him for years. I cut him out of my life 7 years ago. some of my siblinbgs still speak to him but I won't have him mentioned in front of me.

HOWEVER, DH and I were together for years before this and much as DH hated being teh one to pick up the pieces, bite his tongue etc nothing he said would have made me cut contact until I decided it for myself. He has been nothing but supportive all along but when I did it he was so relieved that we weren't going to have to put up with the shit anymore. I genuinely didn't realise how much it was affecting him as it was my family iyswim.

All you can do is support him, agree they are bastards and hope that sooner or later it comes to a head and he comes to some sort of decision. It's shit though. For all of you.

[silverfrog]

the thing is, it's not so much about denying my existence.

they are happy to acknowledge me, as such - as I said, if we are all in a room, we get on tolerably well (as well as anyone with bonkers PIL, tbh!) and parties etc are more than civil, they are good events.

but then the snippy comments start, or dh is just "overlooked (so far, 2 christenings, an 18th, a 21st, now a 50th - the list oges on, tbh).

I can see why it would upset him. everything was fine when I was "just" a girlfriend. it all startedafter we got married.

I suspect the ex has had a hand in this, in trying to keep her position, and possibly in trying to fuck up dh's position in his family, etc.

BUt, since I have never asked him to cut them off (and wouldn't - as stated before, i don't think that is my place), I don't really want ot hear the angst, tbh.

dh maintains he won't go to events without me. but that just means the rest of them can carry on palying their bizarre version of happy families, and it seems very wrong to know that dss and dsd are part of this too - very wrong picture being given there, if you ask me. this is what has resulted in him not being asked along, i suspect.

so I guess what I resent is that he syas this, doesn't get invited along, etc, but then also wants ot continue relationships via phone calls/lunches etc.

that is where I start wanting him to confront it all. imo, he is giving tacit agreement to their actions by his inaction.

[RunawayWife]

I think your father in law feels dirty and ashamed about this being his second marriage and is putting his issues on to his son and you.

[TotallyBonkersTotti]

dear silverfrof dont waste your energy. concentrate on what you two have and leave your dh be...perhaps he is happily unhappy with this scenario for whatever reason...it suits him for now (in a subconscious way obviously)....

[GeekOfTheWeek]

Have you ever stood up to them op?

Have you perhaps told them you find their thoughts on 2nd marriages ever so slightly hypocritical?

How old are your dd's?

[silverfrog]

but we end up spending hours discussing it.

and always say the same thing.

and go round in circles.

only for it all to start again a few months later.



if only I could torment him with bonkers family too - I've got no parents, only 1 brother, who is reasonably sane, and the odd uncle/aunt who are batty in an aging person kind of way, but not particualrly offensive!

[silverfrog]

havent stood up to them - not my place. And I don't want ot be the (overt) cause of a rift - if I did, his parents would fuck off, take the moral high ground, and it would all be my fault.

dds are small - dd1 is 5 (mental age around 2/3 due to disability) and 3.

and we can't ignore the whole situation, because it is brought into our house when dss and dsd coem and stay, and chat about the latest party - how nice it was to see eveeyone, etc, and then ask why we aren't invited.

if we say "becasue they are clearly bonkers" they disagree, and say everyone is nice, etc. don't really wantot sour their relationship with that side of the family. but then again they are being given a very twisted reality

[GeekOfTheWeek]

Your step children are old enough to understand that your dh and his immediate family are being excluded.

Will your dh respond to your dds when they get older and realise that their paternal family wants nothing to do with them.

I understand you not wanting to cause a fall out but seriously, you just sit there and take their insults re your marriage and daughters?

I can't believe your husband just lets this happen.

[silverfrog]

yes, they do understand that, GotW. But it has probablybeen presented to them as either we go, or their mother does (I know for a fact she has said similar things previously)

there isn't a lot I can say - mostly they are outrageous at times like big family parties, etc, where ot say anything back would cause a scene.

further exascerbated by the fact we have, over the years not seen dsd and dss often enough, and so the times they are with us, we wanted ot be without conflict.

the question of what he will say when the dds get older? no idea. cross that bridge when we come to it, I expect. especially since dds' siblings will have a functioning relationship with them...