I saw something yesterday

[mrspir8]

My freind has a son who is 5, we were at a BBQ of another mutual friend. The boy was playing with my DD (2yr10mnth) and he would not share his toys with her and took one back from her. My dd wasn't at all bothered by this, it was a very minor scuffle, no anger involved but cue this boys dad, who is also a freind by default but I have very little to do with him, we used to be avery close pair of couples, but we have drifted apart and the lads are no longer freinds.
He comes storming from end of garden, dragged boy up to the top of the lawn proceeded to tell him off in a very quiet voice while gripping his wrist really tightly the whole time. The lad came back with horrid red marks all over his wrist.

I was very very uncomfortable and felt this was both excessive and cruel.
So putting on my judgeymcJudgey hat I pass the floor over for your comments.

[Vallhala]

I guess if Dad had left it or laughed it off some parents would (understandably) complain. Sometimes you can't win.

At 5 the lad is old enough to know to share, and who knows, maybe he'd been told off for the same actions only earlier or the previous day? I'm not justifying Dad making a mark on the lad but I think I can understand his outlook, to a point.

The telling off wasn't excessive, the marks on his arm were, imho.

[DSM]

Don't see the problem either.

IYO the grip was too tight, but it doesn't sound like he lost his temper, you said he spoke quietly to him, not shouting etc, seems okay to me?

[Colliecross]

I thought this adult bullying technique was well known - grip little hand excruciatingly tightly while saying "Not long now darling; shopping's nearly finished and we can go home, why are you crying?' etc in a really really sweet voice.
Honestly it can't be new to all of you?

[booyhoo]

red marks not ok but the rest sems normal.

i have taken to the gritted teeth warning several times with ds1. he is almost 5.

[Vallhala]

The "I shall totally ignore my darling older child snatching from smaller one and get terribly offended if the other child's parents find it unacceptable" technique is well known too, Colliecross.

The child behaved in an unacceptable manner. Whilst I don't agree with the red arm, admonishing him was perfectly appropriate imho.

Had the father not, a less tolerant parent than the OP would have been terribly cross and offended. Had he made a big, loud fuss about his son's actions, I'm sure that someone would have complained that he was behaving inappropriately by humiliating the boy.

My DC, when they were 5, would have also been in the mire from snatching and refusing to share. I am one of those who have experienced damn family members overindulged children who were allowed to snatch and refuse to share as the parent believed that "they're his toys, why should he have to share them". I know which way I'd rather my DC behaved and which type of child and parent I'd rather be with.

[Colliecross]

I think the description of the telling off included the words 'storming' and 'dragged'.
My point is that the firm quiet talking-to is for public consumption, while the adult is actually inflicting pain by stealth but looking as if he is not.

[Ripeberry]

Collie, does have a point. Lots of parents use that "Im cool" parenting, whilst at the same time causing pain, by either pressure or pinching.
IMHO, it's worse than a short sharp smack on the bum. It's bullying short and simple

[mayorquimby]

sounds like your opinion of him has coloured your assesment of the situation to me

[Vallhala]

Yes but Collie, the alternatives were what? To give a loud, very public admonishment, which would have resulted in a hue and cry about making the lad look and feel small, or to ignore it, thus allowing the boy to continue and/or believe his actions were not a problem, causing raised eyebrows and muttered complaints that his son was a spoiled brat? Or to merely say, "Now, now darling, we mustn't snatch, it's not nice"?

Some children just don't take any notice of the "Please don't do that honey" approach and have to have a firmer line taken. My own DD2 is one such.

As I said, I sometimes I just don't think you can win. Whatever the dad had done, someone would have objected on the grounds that they don't feel that his was the right way to raise his child.

[Colliecross]

I am not anti disciplining the child in an age-appropriate way!
I am only saying that the event described would make me uneasy too. It sounded like deliberately inflicting pain, sounded spiteful and bullying to me.

[mrspir8]

Collie you are exactly right, the lad was held by his dad for a good few minutes and all the time he was squirming and saying ow ow you are hurting dad let go. He was crying afterwards. It was horrid. They had been playing so nicely previous to that I never even saw it as problem. At my DD's age if another child snatches off her in anger she almost certainly would have made her objections clear.

When I said quiet voice, I should have said menacing, threatening, gritted teeth voice, not a nicely controlled telling off.

The lad didn't snatch from my dd-he simply took back in a calm and controlled manner and gave her another toy instead-in my mind he was sharing, the only thing he said which got dad dander up was "no you cant have that one" in a bit of a whingey voice

I dont have a boy and I know they come with thier own set of challenges so maybe it is acceptable to restrain your child for doing nothing, threaten and scare him and cause him pain. I agree kids should be disciplined but not caused pain, surely?

[baskingseals]

agree with collie, dad's behaviour out of order.

[ib]

The problem is that a 5 yo can be pretty strong - even with my 3 yo I have times when I want to tell him off and he just starts squirming and would walk away if I let him. I don't find that acceptable, so I hold him until I am done, and that does mean holding him quite hard. He's only 3 but I can see that with a couple more years' strength that could leave red marks.

By the way you only have to look at me hard and I get red marks - some people are more prone to it than others.

[weetabixwhiner]

A lot of children realise they are 'safe' from the rules when in front of other people and tend to push the boundaries. I have encountered many times, but I don't care if a scene is made, I still resolve the matter as if he were at home.

[Animation]

I can't see what can be achieved humiliating a kid like that and hurting their arm. Maybe the kid just behaves like his dad.

[porcamiseria]

sounds nasty to me, anything that leaves a mark is unacceptable IMO

was the child upset when he came back

[Cretaceous]

First of all, I thought it sounded awful. But then I wondered whether the lad was struggling to escape, and the marks came from the dad simply restraining him, rather than trying to inflict pain. I think it's a bit difficult to tell really from this.

[violetqueen]

Agree with Collie - tone of OP made me uneasy .
I've seen this type of telling off and I hate it .
Sneaky and bullying .
Pinching a childs ears is another tactic - even more sneaky as hurts like hell and doesn't leave tell tale marks .

[QualityTime]

I'm with collie and the OP.

Yes, a firm quiet telling off is a good thing, but most of you have said 'the red marks are too much'
so it wasn't just a quiet telling off.

FWIW this is exactly what my father used to do with us. In public.

[booyhoo]

my ds is a master manipulator when he has an audience. if i took his hand to lead him away for a telling off he would wriggle and say "ow you're hurting me." i never do hurt him he does it to try and get away without a telling off because he thinks it will embarrass me. now most of my friends know he does this and they will ignore him and let me get on with it but i can see how someone who didn't know us would maybe find that innapropriate.

[toccatanfudge]

"s and all the time he was squirming and saying ow ow you are hurting dad let go."

yes my DS1 says that when I hold him and he squirms........when he stands still and try and pull away constantly it doesn't hurt. Thankfully he now (generally) realised that and stands still and listens