Re School Swimming and CRB Checks

[MadameCastafiore]

Right - Maybe I am being overly cautious but I work in Adolescent Mental Health and see the end result of abuse - be it sexual or physical - be it inter familial or from strangers - so if I am being unreasonable you can at least see why!

The school that my DCs attend in our village has it's own swimming pool - they sent letters asking for parents to help and two of my friends ended up helping - one because her some has a disability and one because another friend's child has never been swimming before and she was worried about him. ANyway I know that neither of these friends have their CRB checks through saying they are not a risk - they have signed the self disclosure form and apparently that is good enough for the school. Ironically I leave both of my children with these mums as they are friends and my kids are friends with theirs etc.

Anyway - I asked the school who was in with my son's class for swimming - (DD is nearly 10 so they don't have help) - and was told that I shouldn't worry because the helpers either had their CRB checks already done or they were in the process of being done so had signed the self disclosure form.

My issue is that anyone who wanted access to kids would sign a self disclosure form saying they didn't have any convictions - believe me the evil I see day in day out wouldn't care if they were going to get caught in a few weeks - the fact that they could have time with kids would be enough for them to risk it - and I don't see this as an issue if the parents are going in reading with the kids or helping with art work or being in the classroom but I think it is an issue for them to be helping a bunch of 5 year olds get changed if the check has not been completed - a self disclosure form is not enough - I don't want the school having to turn round and say in hindsight we wasn't aware because the person in question had said they were clean.

Now some of my friends say that I am overreacting, some understand and some say that they are just other parents so are not going to be doing anything - which after seeing the kids abused by their parents makes me want to scream.

So am I being unreasonable to expect the checks to have been completed and not just a self disclosure form signed when it comes to helping reception children get changed for swimming or maybe just a little over cautious???

[MadameCastafiore]

Oooohhhh god - is it too long and no one can be bothered to read it?

[BoysAreLikeDogs]

yanbu

Ofsted take this v seriously and would fail the school IMMEDIATELY

[scrab806ble]

no, not too long, just maybe difficult subject, and people trying to get heads round it.
The checks are necessary,and useful but not infallible, Soham (sic) guy was fully checked. At end of day, is just a piece of paper, showing a snapshot of time.
x

[Thediaryofanobody]

Have you asked if they have access to the children in the changing rooms?
If it's only in the pool with other adults I wouldn't be to worried especially as they were there to help their own children.

If your friends find out your questioning this they may be very insulted. Do you really want to loose to friends about this?

[MadameCastafiore]

My friend's know I have an issue with this and I have said that I am not concerned about them being there as I leave my children with them but they are not helping my son's class and I want to know who is and I want more than a self disclosure form signed for them to be able to help get small children changed.

They are helping the kids get changed apparently but are never out of sight of other adults - but what if one of them grazed their hand against my sons genitals whilst getting him changed and then went home and fantasised about it - that sort of thing makes me feel sick, what if one of them =molested a child under the water - would a 5 year old speak up about it? Even if they did it would be too late wouldn't it - the damage would be done!

[Thediaryofanobody]

If they are helping the kids get changed then I'd be furious.
I'd call monday morning to speak to head teacher.

[MadameCastafiore]

I did email the head teacher and he told the class teacher to tell me that the CRB checks are in the office but are all in order - so I went there and the school secretary told me that the CRB checks were being dealt with but the final checks had not come through from the CRB and it is normal practice that if someone signs a self disclosure form that effectively they view them as clean as they assume that no one would do that if they were then going to get found out.

[edam]

Good grief. What an irresponsible attitude from the school. Ofsted and the LEA would be FURIOUS.

Suggest you complain to the governors and go on to Ofsted/LEA if they don't take it seriously.

Btw, the man who committed the Soham murders was not checked and cleared - that was the whole point, because he was only a caretaker no-one bothered.

[MadameCastafiore]

Glad people think I am not totally neurotic - the Chair of the Governers works in Child Protection so I may email her and see what she has to say about it as the school just keep trouncing about policy and a signed self declaration is good enough!

[edam]

Imagine chair of governors will sort the head out PDQ then. Quite right too. (Am a school governor myself, can't imagine our school doing anything so daft.)

[Tuesday13]

YANBU. I would be concerned too. They need to get rid of the self declaration form and rely on CRB's only. I would not be happy if this was going on with my child.
Do they check the self declaration forms? How do they know something has not already happened?
Also is this legal?

[Greenshadow]

Interesting debate as our school is quite hot on doing CRBs for most things - i.e. reading with children, PTA committee etc but they do not require one for parents accompanying children swimming.
Maybe this is because the pool we currently go to has indiviual changing rooms and it is unlikely that you would see a child naked, but the pool they used to use had a communual changing room and all helpers were in there with them.
Maybe it is just becuase it is quite hard to get volunteers in the first place and many only help once or twice a term. #They do not do any self declaration.
The whole system seems a bit hit and miss.

[scrab806ble]

No, Soham guy Had clearance, but he lied about ID. That is the point. These checks are spurious, and only valid on day issued assuming all details correct.
The world is really not full of people waiting around on the off chance of getting to watch children change. There are these people, and we should take all reasonable precations that they do not have the chance to inyeract with children. We should not assume all adults are guilty till proven innocent.

[scrab806ble]

interact, sorry

[Ladymuck]

We have this with our reception class each year though. Mums are needed to help out, but it can take up to 12 weeks for the CRB to come through. We have to rely on the self disclosure until the CRB is through, otherwise there is no help for the first term (when it is needed most). Ultimately we have to look at it from a risk perspective:-

• the role is limited to parents of that particular class;
  
• the parents are in a communal changing room and therefore in sight of other members of staff at all time;
  
• the parents involvement is used for the minimum amount of time. So parents aren't allowed to view the swimming lesson, and their involvement stops as soon as most of the children can dress themselves.
  
  Of course an abuser will try to put themselves in a position where they are in contact with children, but usually they will try to avoid applying for a CRB check - after all if they do have a conviction, or something comes through on the police check then they've now notified the school as to their history.
  
  Hopefully the ISA process will help schools get a faster response in future - at least to the issue as to whether the helper is barred.

[castleonthehill]

Crbs are a snap shot and only prove that a person has not been caught. Statistically children are most endanger from family and close friends. If you don't like the way the school is handling this.

1. talk to the governors.
2. Talk to ofstead
3. Remove your child from the swimming lessons.